11 Comments

Alternate Timelines

Roobydo May 4, 2009

I'm getting tired of people explaining a lot of mysteries by claiming that "alternate timelines" or "time loops" are being created. What happened happened and can't happen any other way. I know that Faraday said there were variables, and he was exactly right. But do you know what he did then? He tried to change what he knew happened, and he died. It couldn't happen in the past, because that's not how it happened in the present. Every single action that the Losties have taken in the past has lined up perfectly with the present. That's what makes it fun to watch! If they were just changing things and creating "alternate timelines" we wouldn't get the cool "Oh, that's what that meant" feeling every episode.

The beauty of the whole thing is that they are changing the future! They're changing it into the present that we saw before they left; the present Locke, Sun, and the other 316 survivors are in. Think about it. If they had never travelled back to 1977, would Ben been have been shot? Would he have been taken to Richard? Would Ethan have been born? Would Amy have even been alive to get pregnant?

You might say "It would have happened anyway," but would it have? All we know is what did happen.

If "alternate timelines" could be created, nothing the Losties in the past did would affect the the 316 survivors on that beach. But you know what? Everything they have done, no matter how "reckless", has been exactly what we see in the present. The 316 survivors' mere presence on the beach proves that the actions that the Losties take will get everyone to the same place they've always been.

Now, do other "timelines" exist? Maybe. But the only timeline we have ever seen, and the only one we will ever see is the one that includes all of the events we've seen, heard or read about.

In short, Daniel Faraday was absolutely right. There are variables, and those variables completely change the equation. However, we already know how these variables work in this equation. -- Roobydo talk contribs 00:05, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

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I can't say whether or not the universe would "course correct" if she did not act or if something completely different would end up happening, but I think the important thing is that she does act, and it all does happen.

May 8, 2009 by Roobydo
roobydo, I get that, and I can see some motivations for her... but the fact that she has to be involved is not the same as implying things could go very wrong without her, and if they don't get the O6 back.
That makes no sense unless Eloise is not absolutely certain that what happens happens.

May 5, 2009 by Harcourt
Chrisso888- " no. it was always that sayid shot ben in the past. it had always happened." That's exactly what i said. what happened happened, and couldn't have happened any other way.
Harcourt- "so why does Eloise and so many others go to such lengths to protect the future, and make things happen as they did"
Because that's how it happens. Eloise's obsession with "destiny" is crucial to getting the O6 where they belong. It's like a puzzle, and her obsession to get things the way they are "supposed to be" is just a piece that fits in like any other. You might argue that if she hadn't have taken those actions then they wouldn't have gotten there, but you can't look at it that way. She did take those actions, and they did get there.
Lisa- "Daniel did change the past (and in turn the present) as a variable when he confronted Desmond in the Hatch"
I think if there is an exception to this rule, it's definitely Desmond. I could argue that that had always happened, but I think the purpose of the way they put it together on the show (Dan talking to Des outside the swan, then Des immediately remembering it in the present) was the producers way of telling us that Desmond is different. Unfortunately, i don't think we've seen enough to figure out exactly what he can do.
Oh, and I'm pretty sure Desmond is "The Variable", given his powers of change. It's not unlike the writers to embrace the irony of him being a constant and the variable at the same time.

May 4, 2009 by Roobydo
I like this, it works, but Daniel did change the past (and in turn the present) as a variable when he confronted Desmond in the Hatch...

May 4, 2009 by LostLisa
it all makes sense, but our other side that it can change has this on our side: one, we've seen it change using consciousness time travel, with faraday meeting dan. You may say that always happened, but Dan and Desmond didn't think so. But also, we have a key motivational issue. Characters need motivation for their actions (at least if the actions are relevant to the story)... so why does Eloise and so many others go to such lengths to protect the future, and make things happen as they did. Why would they have to "make them" happen at all? Why would they worry about getting the oceanic 6 back, if one knows they will make it there no matter what?
is eloise simply insane, working to make history because she knows it? perhaps, but there are some indications that some change is possible, if not all changes, and not by any means, and not by just any person.

May 4, 2009 by Harcourt
they cant change the past coz it had already happened. youre saying that the things like sayid shooting ben so they took him to the temple replaced another task that got him to the temple... no. it was always that sayid shot ben in the past. it had always happened.

May 4, 2009 by Chrisso8888
Ps I think their might be only one Master of puppets and we all seen, how those Una bloggers can get. Please let me know.

May 4, 2009 by Jacob's Mama
I agree cele and Mcjumbo...Dan,Jack and Kate should have listened to Miles, when seeing Richard stroll into the Drama Barracks, he exclaims " I... think I'm about ready for the subs...subs anyone ?" Then we see him try to warn Daniel to settle down and chill out cuz as we learned in the previous episode,Danielle has an Edenpiss complex ( did I misspell that, it just doesn't look right ) You know, where he was told by a "fortune" teller that one day he would kill his father and sleep with his Own Mother...so, be totally grossed out by that kind of thing....He left his Mommy and Daddy and went out to try to change his OWN future.....on the way back he became blind and ended killing his OWN father mistaken him for a robber and ends up getting with his OWN Mama........Jack and Kate re-taileATE for Daniel's death............................. by HACKING ONCE again into Mrs Hawking's personal computer. NOT JOKING, is there someone who can give their information too considering they got rid off the e-mails?

May 4, 2009 by Jacob's Mama
Perfect. This is 100% correct. What makes this show is how there were so many questions and we get to see how they are answered because of what everyone is doing in the past. I agree Clebok, they will cause the Incident.

May 4, 2009 by JooJooMcGumbo
Yes, exactly! So far, every attempt that anyone has made to change the past has resulted in what was already known to have happened! Sayid tried to change things by shooting young Ben. Jack tried to change things by refusing to operate on him. Didn't work; both actions resulted in young Ben being taken to the Temple. Daniel tried to change the past by talking to his mother. Didn't work, Eloise killed him, which she apparently knew all along would happen. Sawyer tried to intervene and save Amy from the Others, and it resulted in Ethan being born. And now, the Losties are likely going to follow through with Daniel's idea to stop the Incident from ever occurring, but I bet they will just end up causing the Incident!

May 4, 2009 by Celebok
I agree 100% with that. They were always predestined to go back to 1977 and take part in the events we have seen. Daniel tried to change the past but ultimately ended up creating it the way it was supposed to happen.

May 4, 2009 by Baker1000