What if.....?
From Lostpedia
What would have happened if the Monster had succeeded in pulling Locke down the hole (probably CV) in the Season 1 finale? If we are going to assume that Smokey is or is related to the Nemesis then why did he want Locke then and there and if this was the case, why didn't he try again at a later point to pull Locke in? The only other time (at least that I can think of) that we have seen Smokey pull someone down into it's lair is when it attacked Rousseau's team and pulled in Montand. After that it is not entirely clear what happened with that group other than Rousseau thought they all went cray and killed them. So suppose Locke had been pulled in my the Monster- would he have reappeared later as an Altered- Locke? And would that Alt-Locke have made his way to kill Jacob straight away and we could have skipped four seasons worth of other developments? Not that I would have wanted them to be skipped, I'm just saying....
Comments
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![[The Tapestry]](http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/common/avatars/c/c2/1397222.png?20091110225846)
Yeah... I think that perhaps the 'rules' that Jacob and the Nemesis abide by may have caused Smokey to HAVE to pull Locke down i.e. Since Boone's death or whatever, he needed to be judged regardless of whether the Nemesis needed him or not because it was part of the rules... I dunno, just an idea.
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![[Dogmatic055]](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/common/avatars/1/17/1152436.png?20090816025627)
However, it should be noted that Jacob's nemesis only needed Locke under the circumstances he took him in. Taking Locke in the season 1 finale through the CV would not have been helpful in killing Jacob. Locke was only important to him AFTER all the events that took place in the following seasons because the dynamic between Locke and Ben, which the Nemesis used to his advantage, had been set up.
Therefore, if Jacob's nemesis IS related to smokey the attempt to drag him into the CV can't really be related to his goal to kill Jacob. Instead, I agree that smokey was attempting to judge Locke for leading Boone to his death.
In regards to the Nemesis- rather than having an overall goal of taking the form of Locke, I believe he has been moving through various forms searching for an appropriate "loophole" from which to kill Jacob. He finally finds it in Locke.
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![[Beardo the Pirate]](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/common/avatars/d/db/1408853.png?20091015172908)
I think at that point the monster was just killing whoever it saw. It didn't judge the pilot or Rousseau's people, and it tried to kill Charlie Jack and Kate in the first episode.
And I'm still not convinced the monster is Nemesis. Just like everyone else, I thought that for a while, but when you stop and think about it, what has even given anybody the idea that it is? Cause its black and Dick wears black? I still think the monster is its own thing.
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![[U2hmtmkmkm]](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/common/avatars/d/d1/1278378.png?20091112023941)
I actually have a theory that DOES connect the monster to Jacob's nemesis. Not trying to be antagonising towards you, Mr.Initiative... but the evidence in the post makes me accept that the Nemesis could be the monster. Not fully but significantly anyway.
See, when Montand was pulled under the temple by the monster, he has his arm pulled off but sounds unhurt, seemingly. In a later time period, we see Rousseau talking to Robert who seems entirely different to what he used to be, ie. infected. These 2 events have made me believe that the Smoke monster pulls people in, kills them and duplicates their appearance as well as their memories. I'm sure this is not a new theory. But what this would then suggest is that there is Montand's and Robert's dead bodies under the temple as well as a living, walking, talking version (Montand's living copy is still under the temple shouting for help and Robert's copy appears to Rousseau on the beach, which she kills). The only other instance we have of there being two of the same person is Locke and the Nemesis posing as Locke! One dead, and one copy.
So I think it's a distinct possibility that the monster is dragging bodies in, killing them, then duplicating them itself, suggesting that the monster is Nemesis. It's also a distinct possibility that the monster is dragging people in and then the Nemesis duplicates them, suggesting that the monster and Nemesis are two different beings.
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![[That Dude That Was Sucked Into The Turbine]](http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/common/avatars/b/b9/1359149.png?20091025064357)
I think another consideration is that, assuming Smokey and Nemesis are one in the same, Smokey might have pulled Locke as a first step, or just to tease him of the island's power.
We saw Smokey pull Montand in despite the efforts of the team, but yet Jack was able to hold Locke up. Perhaps he just wanted Locke to experience him first hand, thus creating an even greater curiosity for Locke. In those scenes, it is clear Locke wants it to happen, and afterward, his zeal to discover what the Island, and specifically the Monster, actually is only increased.
In conclusion, if Smokey really wanted to pull him down, he could have.
Also, staying under the assumption that Nemesis and Smokey are the same being, I think we can safely throw away the idea that Smokey is a judge of some kind. It is clear that Nemesis has been setting up himself in human form to be Jacob (in the cabin) and a more godly 'protector' of the island in Smokey form. I assume that the latter, like the former, is just another high-concept trick by Nemesis.
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![[Polarbear108]](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/common/avatars/8/87/1437299.png?20091111213914)
"WHAT IF"......my two favorite words when talking about Lost. : )
I do like the idea of Smokey being its own being, I had always seen Smokey as CV the three headed guardian of the underworld but I guess he would have to answer to someone. I have also wondered though, having 3 heads would that mean that there could be 3 Smokey's? The heads are suppose to represent the past, present and the future.
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![[DharmaZooKpr]](http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/messaging/images/e/e5/Avatar4.jpg)
Have we seen two "copies" in the same scene? (I thought perhaps Clair and Christian, but we don"t know if Clair is dead or not). When Ben is being judged we see unLock, smokey and a dead Alex. But not at the same time. If there is a case when they appear in the same scene would that mean Nemesis, smokey, and Jacob are 3 separate entities?
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![[Iburnedthemuffins]](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/common/avatars/8/83/1235536.png?20091110164555)
I like your theory, U2. I'm not sure I completely agree, mostly because I'm not completely convinced that Smokey is the Nemesis (and that's only because it's hard to understand how a person can also be smoke). But you make a good point about Montand having his arm ripped off and then saying, "I'm OK." Kind of makes me think of how Claire was in a house that exploded and had a scratch on her head.
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![[LostFreak408SJ]](http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/common/avatars/2/28/1260975.png?20091112020655)
MY opinion is that Nemesis and Cerberus are 2 different beings. To me there is just not enough evidence to conclude that Nemesis is Smokey
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![[Quakerpimp]](http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/messaging/images/1/19/Avatar.jpg)
Maybe Smokey is a shape-shifter and Nemesis is a shape-taker. Smokey can mimic any form it desires at any time, and the other must use the dead as its mode of transit. Maybe Smokey does the dirty work for Nemesis; i.e., Smokey lured Rousseau's group under the temple, killed them, and then Nemesis took their forms. Christian and Yemi both showed up to the Island dead already, so Nemesis just took their forms.
Brrr... this gives me the creeps. Damon and Carlton are always joking about a 7th "Zombie Season" but maybe we've had zombies around all along!
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U2hmtmkmkm, it's an interesting theory- my only problem is a matter of location. Unlike Robert and Montand who went in/were taken into the temple Locke's body landed on the Hydra Island along with the rest of Ajira 316. Therefore, any transformation that went under way had to happen miles away from the temple, and probably miles from the monster as well (Anything is possible- but it should still be noted we've never seen the monster on the Hydra Island).
This leads me to believe that the temple transformation that took place with Montand, Robert, and Ben is in fact not a copying transformation but something that changes the actual core of the individual. Locke (and possibly Christian) being impersonated by the nemesis is something different.
Which brings up another question I've had. Why, if Jacob's nemesis indeed used Locke's physical body in some way to transform, WHY wasn't the body disposed of? Furthermore, Ilana and co. find it in the plane- and are in fact aware of its existence even while the fake Locke is walking around them. If you watch Dead is Dead, the crate is set up surprisingly early when Ben comes up and asks if he can help with anything. Fake Locke is on the beach at the exact same moment Locke's body is in the crate. So Ilana was well aware of what was going on- yet seemed to act too late in getting the body to Jacob to warn him.
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Yeah I can see how the location issue is important. I've always preferred that the monster be its own sentient being, rather than the nemesis as well. Can't explain why, but I have. And I don't necessarily believe in the theory myself either. But it was a lot of fun developing it. So, Iburnedthemuffins and Dogmatic055, I definitely see the reservations. And I'm yet to fall on either side of the fence re: whether they're one and the same, but it was fun thinking about it! I just hope Claire hasn't gone the way of Montand and Robert. She better be alive or so help me... I can't think of an Aussie character who has has a good run on the show...
This is a very good subject you bring up. This has come to mind a few times in the past. And is what keeps me from fully accepting the theory that Nemesis is the Monster. If he wanted Locke bad enough he would have had him way earlier (should he have been the black smoke of course!)