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Death of Man in Black
I was wondering how killing the Man in Black became possible. I may have missed something but what occurred prior to 'Locke' once again being able to bleed, meaning that he can now be killed, since the Man in Black which was inhabiting Locke's body could not be killed. (Season 6)
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Ok. What happened to Locke's soul? FSW? What do you think of the idea that the Island was Locke's soul? It's sunk in FSW. He mentions to Boone that a "good" pilot in calm seas, etc could land safely. He was trying to reassure Boone because he's friendly and likes people. Could the Island be a metaphor for the torment of Locke's soul (EXPOSEd rock-war-wound) and if so could MIB just be trying to end the torment of the right Candidate #4, by sinking the Island? Christian was sufferring before he died and his name is Shepard #23. So was Eko. Could the bright light Locke saw be MIB's recognition of who "had to die?" The only other bright lights were Kate/Juliet. The message was sent by MIB to MIB (loophole). Isn't John's love for the Island self-explanatory in this context? Why can't LOCKE rest? Who is John Locke? 6 Billion people want to know
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You're responding to yourself now. Do you realise that? lol :)
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I messed up where i responded twice. Do you realize That you're a fan of ANOTHER self-referential biblical show that hurts kids for money?
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. sorry
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I enterred a large response to reply below and got it wrong so I had to put something here.
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This is one of my favorite things about Lostpedia. Every so often, someone comes on with a simple question ("what happened to that black woman who asked Michael about Walt?"), and they'll get a whole series of answers, from direct, to brilliant but tangential, to blatant lies, to complete nonsense.
(The short answer: Desmond switched off the Light. The Light gave the Man in Black his powers and bound him to the Island.)
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yes but they think MIB was Locke's body and miss the transfiguration of Smoke into another person who resembles Locke. And Beatrice got blasted
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Don't know what you're on about.
But Balk is right. Since the Smoke came from the Heart of the Island, as long as it was still functioning he was invincible. As soon as Desmond pulled the plug, he wasn't. It came as a surprise to even MIB. It was an epic fail on his part. Destroy the Island but lose your powers in the process.
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This is a classic case of where "Occam's razor" (simplest answer is the best/most correct) should be applied. BulkOfFame is spot on! Desmond switches off the light and all of MiB's powers are taken away, rendering him mortal and capable of death like any other human.
It's correct to say it wasn't John's actual body, but it was his human form nonetheless. If MiB was still in the form of the Medusa spider (that bit and paralyzed Nikki) when the light was switched off, you could've stepped on him to kill him.
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I don't disagree. The light did it. Yet how does Titus Welliver become Smoke and then Terry O'Quinn when John Locke is buried? A Miracle of the light. It's a tool that is a Deus Ex Machina that lasts as long as a fight. IF Smokey had hit the road as soon as Desmond switched off the Light, Jack could have turned it back on and then Smokey would be Smokey but alive with Jack as Protector. The new body, NOT John Locke decided to fight Jack. MIB had to to sink the Island to leave and it cost him his life and Jack's. So presumably Hurley is the Protector. And Jacob's biggest mistake was creating Smokey (BOO HOO;), so probably no more Smoke Monster, light or not. Just "Keep off the Beach" signs.
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Don't forget that the MiB DIED when he went into the Source. Jacob discovered his body in the stream a short time later and he was placed next to Mother in the cave ("Adam and Eve"). The Smoke Monster obviously then used this dead 'exposed' body 'likeness' (not the body itself) to look exactly like he did before he died. The body and the soul are two different things in the case of the Smoke Monster apparitions since the MiB became the Smoke Monster.
The only (possible) exception to this is Mother. While it's never been confirmed that she was the Smoke Monster, it's very likely she was one as well but in human form. We know this because she was killed without the light being switched off.
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ok, if Barry/Titus Welliver was alive when he went into the Source, then his soul is the Smoke Monster. He appears as Barry when he's being materialistic like trying to leave or playing People-Games with Jacob. So if Smoke=soul and John Locke's appearance = material world - based on a real body, then when "Locke-in-the-Ground and Locke-with-a-bloody-lip were coinciding in the material world, the soul of John Locke-in-the-Ground (the Island?) started to rumble? LOCKE WAS POSSESED? By WHAT?! The whole thing can be found from the Lamp Post...The End? LOST 2.0
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No. Like I said, the soul and the body (image) are two totally separate things. Yes sure, the monster could read the thoughts of the body he was using (even though it wasn't their actual body) but that's the extent of it. Locke's body lay buried with the other Oceanic survivors that then died on the beach near their camp. Locke was never ever possessed. The end! :)
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see up top
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Though Cmc696 said "inhabiting Locke's body," they didn't (necessarily) think MIB possessed Locke's body. The phrase, in this context, just means "took the form of Locke's body."
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The best answer that I can think of as to how MIB became Locke is that Lockes body was sent back to the island as a PROXY for the MIB. Think of this as a human sacrifice to the smoke monster in exchange for something (Hmm Daniel Faradays soul?)... If you guess that Christian Shephards body was also a proxy, (I'd like to think for his son... but that would take a lot more 'splainin' on my part, so lets just say I dunno for who) and then think that even MIB was just a proxy for Jacob, it makes some sense.
January 23 by Wallyp -
The MIB who was the man on the beach with Jacob, not John Locke, was tossed into the stream and went into the Source, when his body was dead. His spirit was made manifest into the monster and apparitions of dead people at his discretion. John Locke was killed by Ben. John Locke's body was in the Ajira 316 cargo box. When MIB/Locke was appearing to people as resurrected, it was a fraud designed to get someone to kill Jacob and suceeding candidates. The problem is that the Source is what "traps" him on the Island. He wants to leave, so he gets Desmond to turn off the Source. Somehow, this gives him a body again in a different form. [a miracle] Unfortunately, Jack is there to fight him and Kate shoots him until he is no more. Ironically when Jack kicked him off the cliff, he never made it into the water. Too bad. The funny part is that he should have just ran or killed Jack outright before Kate showed up, but he didn't. And the Source could have been put back into place if he ran, so he had to kill the candidates/EVERYONE...no witnesses...in order to get off a sinking island. I guess he was in a hurry.
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The SMOKE trying to leave the island may well have accomplished this by dying in the body of Locke... (thats why he says 'its too late' maybe?)
But in the sideways situation, Jack free's John Locke BEFORE Jack kills John Locke on the island, 2004 in sideways time... therby allowing John Lockes soul to pass on BeFORE ever being killed by Ben or abducted by the smoke monster. In this complex action it would be as if the MIB never was a part of Locke at all ---so--- when Jack kills John Locke, he is actually killing john Locke---(mercy kill!) the smoke monster never did die, and continued to be trapped on the island.
January 22 by Wallyp -
Ben and Lapidus and Sun buried Locke's BODY. MIB was the appearance of Locke. Jack must have killed an incarnation of Locke, a person who had Locke's memories, but not actually Locke since he was buried in Beach Camp Cemetary. This is a miracle. A trick the "writers" used to carry forth an idea about the Island not sinking like in FSW where everyone has a nice cozy life without CRASHING PLANES. Why the Losties were tied together in a social network by JACOB 2.0 for 23 then 8 to run the Island is a mystery. The most probable explanation is they just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time, were convinced they belonged together and...witness Jack's super conversion to Destiny over seasons 5 and 6...the MIB was trying to do them a favor in waking them up. But he realized "It's just an Island, it doesn't need protecting" was like waking up sleepwalkers. It's dangerous. He was leaving. They were in his way, so he killed them. Reality.
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I like to play with the time travel aspect of the show. This could be WAY OFF... I'm just speculating. I know they say a few times that you can't CHANGE the past due to WHH, but I think that is such an obvious paradox in itself, and that there are other examples of time change (specifically revolving around deaths and inconsistancies as to how and where characters die...) that I think a big focus in the final act revolves around time changing; death; and how death effects the lives around it. John Locke HAD to die, but it was never specified right out as to how or why... We see him die three times. Once by Ben with a rope, once by Jack by botched surgery, and once on the island. (Perhaps even four times when you consider the fall from the window...) BUT think of it this way; Only one of those deaths would have been when he was SUPPOSED to die; Could it not be possible to think that in some very different context, John Locke-the leader of the Others, is killed by a deranged Jack or a mind poisoned kate Austen? This leading to the MIB using that very kill as his ticket to freedom and his reason for trying to manipulate time in the first place?
January 24 by Wallyp -
I pray Cmc696 has long abandoned this blog, or we'll have confused him beyond all hope.
But just looking at one sentence from this last post: You say people sometimes change the past in Lost. When does anyone do so?
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Hey I added the disclaimer,,, I could be WAY OFF,,,, but whether or not things changed, didn't change,,, it would still seem that some were TRYING to change things. My point is that maybe that beach kill was actually Jack vs. John Locke WITHOUT MIB/smoke interference. Smoke just tried to cash in... Sorry, it makes sense in my head.... I'll get my thoughts on paper correctly eventually... moving on....
January 25 by Wallyp -
BALK, chew on this one for a second and then tell me what you think. At the beggining of the flash sideways we clearly see that the island is under water, indicating that the MIB wins. But by the end of the season (which some believe happens directly before the FSW) we see that the island does not sink. Couldn't that classify as a CHANGE?
However what I am referring to is more to do with say like Nadia, who we saw die more then once... both different--but the same....
January 25 by Wallyp -
How could the Locke in Locke v. Jack possibly have been plain John Locke, without the Man in Black? Locke died. His body was embalmed, began decaying and was buried. Meanwhile, the Man in Black took his form. And, separately, we saw John's soul after death reuniting with his friends and moving on. If he then did, for no apparent reason, return to the island, why would he have possessed the Man in Black's body? And why on earth would he have wanted to stab Jack in the neck?
"At the beginning of the flash sideways we clearly see that the island is under water, indicating that the MIB wins."
No. At the beginning of the flash sideways, we saw the island under water, indicating - well, at the time, indicating whatever we wanted because we had no clue what it meant. We didn't think then that it meant the MIB "wins" because we had little idea who he was and no idea that he wanted to destroy the island. Most of us thought the sunken island indicated that the bomb had gone off and had created a new Island-less timeline.
But actually, the past never changed. The flash sideways was a separate place the characters made together after death. Ben pictured himself as a teacher who'd not grown up on the Island, but this was just his reimagining what happened, not changing the past. Ditto all other "changes." And the sunken island, which appeared linked to a MIB victory at during the show's last two episodes, turned out to be nothing of the sort. The characters made the flash sideways, and none of them were thinking about the MIB. The sunken Island just represented that this was their world without the island - and, more importantly, without the experiences they'd shared together there. During the final church scene, they could have justifiably cut to the island, now magically resurfaced, though it would have confused the hell out of us. (Actually, they did cut to the island, though not a flash sideways island).
And what's this about Nadia dying twice? She died once, hit by a car. We then saw her in the afterlife, and it's up for discussion whether that was her of just Sayid's creation. And even if she did somehow die twice, that doesn't suggest we reversed the past. Sayid died twice without doing so.
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I think the Island was "John Locke's" soul or "Jack" projecting his pain into a LOCKE character . Locke's body had to DIE and he had to "move on" in FSW in order to sink it. LA X into CHAPEL was him realizing he died on 815, with the rest of the LOSTIES also moving on, but he was the spiritual source. Remember the Ads where the cast was at The Lost Supper...Locke was in the middle (Jesus). And Ben's story to Jack about Thomas and how "Let us go to Jerusalem so that we may die with him." Well, the offshoot is that the Island is Jack's soul in denial (creating Locke) and that he tries to put it off as Locke the obvious "nemesis" to him as Jacob. But really it's Christian putting off Jack putting off Locke and WHO THE HELL IS HURLEY? So the whole show is Christian dying full of guilt in a pile of Puke...Hurley...Ben(t) over having sh*t himself Waalt! praying to Santa Rosa. Rose, the window of a church above a door to the light. LOST is sad really (and completely Eugenic) but a lot better and longer than "The Fountain" with Hugh Jackman, an aussie from outside Sydney. Besides Darlton et al, signed their paychecks. Mystery solved. Time to put it in the books.
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LA X into CHAPEL... thats where its at. We thought that the bomb in 1977 sunk the island, whatever it was it was still indicating that MIB(smoke) is in action...The sideways for Jack isn't the afterlife, because Jack isn't dead. During LA X, He is in the loop. Think that MIB=deceit, and what better metaphor for deceit then time travel. Some of the people in the very loop are in fact dead, but Jack isn't. Jack is alive in 2004. It isn't until he actually dies in his proper time -2007- that he can move on to CHAPEL, which is the same sideways... but different. Meanwhile, Locke (though dead) is also still alive in this same sideways, but cannot move on (to CHAPEL) until Jack fixes him. Essentially I'm willing to think that if Jack fixes Locke while living in 2004, then it then free's Locke from ever being abducted in 2007. Then Jack and Locke kill each other to ensure that their souls don't end up stuck on the island forever years to come...
January 27 by Wallyp
