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"Taxi!"
Jacob was in the taxi with Hurley the day before Hurley got on Flight 316. Hurley said to Jacob that if he was seeing Jacob "he must be dead." Jacob said, "I am most certainly not dead." That day was in 2008. Jacob is stabbed by Ben in 2007.
Do you think that Jacob is most certainly not dead because:
1) he survived the stabbing; or
2) the 1977 bomb did change what happened; or
3) Jacob is immortal
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36 comments
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Ber418: The log files from the pearl station stated that the system failure after Desmond killed Kelvin and the Oceanic 815 crash occured on the exact same date... there was no timejump for flight 815 and I don't think we have enough proof to assume that Ajira 316 travelled in time.
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SORRY - I meant to say "September 22, 2004 -the exact day that Oceanic 815 took off."
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I think Dinsdale hit it spot on when stating:
The odd statement here is "in the island present" instead of just saying "in the present".
I think the writers have made it clear that since the series began on September 22, 2004 - the exact date that Oceanic 316 took off - the Island has never been in sync with the audience's real-time since. I believe the 2007/2008 discrepancy was a way of reminding us of the fact that the Island does not exist in real-time - even post the donkey-wheel fix.
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I'll need to go back and watch that clip show again, but I'm pretty sure that Darlton did not say that Ajira 316 took off in 2008 or that there was a time-jump to 2007. From what I recall, they only said the plane landed on the island in 2007.
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I agree with Celebok
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Here's how you know they went back in time from '08 to '07...it's happeened before! Remember when the Kahana called the Island and someone on the island said the dead body of the doctor just washed up? Then a small amount of time later Keamy slits the doctors throat and throws him into the ocean. Also Daniel was doing experiments to verify the time differential between the "real" world and the island. Maybe Ajira 316 went back further because of their velocity or mass...I'm really not up to speed on my time-travel equations.
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it sounds to me that they just rounded off. I mean ur all talking about a couple of months here. if it changed from night to day its because they entered the radius of the island where time is different.
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Okay, don't know if this is an production error since Dalton stated that the plane took off in 2008 and landed in 2007, but in "Variables" the first scene with Penny and Eloise takes place in the exact same time period as when flight 316 left. This scene is followed by a "30 year earlier" title screen and then show Faraday arriving back at the island after being in Ann Arbor. So... does this mean flight 316 left in 2007 instead of 2008, or did the production team get lazy and fail to change the "30 years earlier" title screen to "31 years earlier," or maybe.... it's just one more way the producers have ensured the fans will go crazy going back and forth of this issue. whatever.
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Darlton did confirm that the plane left in 2008 and landed in 2007 in the clip show immediately before the incident.
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I believe Darlton confirmed there was a time jump from 2008 to 2007
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Hurley only said "you must be dead because he was so used to talking to Charlie and Anna Lucia, and just assumed that his mental state had brought him another dead person to chat with. That's all he meant by it. The plane took off from the states and crashed on the island without jumping through time. Excluding the few castaways who were bounced to the 70s through the time rift. They are in the 70s, the rest crashed, just as any of you would if your plane went down. December 07, January 08, it really doesn't matter. You're all reading way too much into it. Plane down; Jack and crew jump to 70s; plane and rest of passangers crash on island in present day.
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The only thing that points to 316 time hopping is the fact that one minute it's night ~FLASH~ next minute it's brilliant daylight. There's also a comment from Carlton in "Journey in Time" -
Carlton: "Sure enough, they're struck with turbulence. [Plane starts shaking] They find themselves flashing from night to day, and it's all Frank Lapidus can do to safely land this airplane."
[Frank opens the cockpit door]
Carlton: "They land on the island but four of them have disappeared. There's no Jack, there's no Kate, there's no Hurley and there's no Sayid."
Frank: Where did they go?
Ben: They're gone!
Frank: Gone where?
Ben: How would I know?
Carlton: "So the plane lands on the island, in the island present but, these four characters appear on the island thirty years earlier."
The odd statement here is "in the island present" instead of just saying "in the present".
Of course, we're probably all over-analyzing the more I think about it. Hopefully the first few episodes of Season 6 will answer this sticky wicket once and for all.
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Yes, Travdog25 and Jalas are right. What people here are not realizing is why the wiki articles are currently stating that Ajira 316 took off in 2008 and landed in 2007, and the history of how people came to that conclusion. It is because this is the only way that all of the facts we've seen on the show (the date on Locke's passport, dialog stated by characters to indicate passage of time, "30 years" title cards, and statements by producers as to when Ajira 316 landed) can be consistent, without assuming any yet-to-be-confirmed errors by the writers or anyone on the production crew. Nothing on the show has directly implied a 2008-to-2007 time-travel, nor have the producers ever said anything to indicate that such an event occurred. It is only something that was deduced by the members of Lostpedia by piecing together all of the facts observed on the show and working out all of the inconsistencies.
My personal belief is the writers did not mean to imply a 2008-2007 time-jump by Ajira 316, and there was simply a minor production error somewhere along the line that led to this inconsistency. I'm leaning toward that being the date on Locke's passport. People have been arguing against this saying that the producers wouldn't make such a big mistake like that, but I disagree. I think this particular mistake was very easy to slip through. If you think about it, the only reason we are aware of it is because we had to gather all the data that we could when piecing together the timeline for the wiki. Damon and Carlton have way too many important things on their minds to keep all those nitty-gritty details memorized. That's why they have a continuity guy to keep track of those things (Gregg Nations, I think). But in the case of the passport, it probably didn't even occur to Darlton that they needed to consult the continuity guy to make sure the date didn't conflict with any other details. They probably just told the prop department to create a Canadian passport with Locke's picture and the name Jeremy Bentham, and when someone asked them what the issued date should be, they probably just said, "It doesn't matter, just make it sometime in 2007." And voila, we end up seeing a December 2007 passport and do the math and figure Ajira 316 had to have taken off no earlier than January 2008, along with all other indications that the plane landed on the Hydra island in 2007. These are the facts that we as viewers observed, so we have no choice but to assume a 2008-to-2007 time-jump, until we learn otherwise. But I bet that if you were to ask Damon or Carlton about the plane travelling from 2008 to 2007, they wouldn't have a clue what you were talking about.
Sorry about this really long comment, but I did a lot of thinking about this recently, but just didn't have an excuse to post it until this came up again.
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what's so unclear about the plane time traveling back a year when it crashed on the island? eloise made it completely clear that the island is always moving in time. it is 100% possible for the plane to take off in 2008, time travel when it crashes on the island, and crash in 2007. yes, the producers make mistakes, but i don't think they would allow themselves to make one that interfered with the plot this much.
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Travdog25, thank you for trying to point out to people the very thing I've been trying to explain as well. People do round! I feel that if the plane REALLY left in 2008 and landed in 2007, it would be EXPLICITLY clear. We would know, and our proof wouldn't just be some guess work and "30 years later/earlier"
These guys do make mistakes, but know what they're doing. If they went back in time for sure, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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To add to Travdog's post, there is another assumption people make: that the writing staff and production crew don't make mistakes. There is a whole page on Lostpedia detailing writing errors, continuity errors, and prop errors. Don't forget that Ben states Charlotte was born in 1979, but we see a cute little Charlotte in 1974, 5 years before she was born.
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Also, Elliebellie: if you can provide a link to an article where the producers say the plane lands in 2007, I would appreciate it, because i haven't seen it. If so, just ignore everything i said in the previous post. :)
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First of all, just because the Wikipedia says the plane landed in 2007, does NOT mean it is true. It is a theory until proven by facts found in the show, or by confirmation from the producers. Here is what we know for a fact. 1) Locke's passport was dated Dec 2007. 2) The Losties went back to 1977, sometime after the May release of Star Wars. 3) flashforwards place the survivors of flight 316 at "30 years later".
There are 2 assumptions people are making here. 1) that flight 316 left in 2008. It's possible that the flight left in Dec of 2007. Unlikely, but possible. 2) That the captions "30 years later" and "30 years earlier" mean EXACTLY 30 years.
If the two storylines go from early June 1977 to Jan 2008, that would be roughly 30 years and 8 months, but what if the 1977 story takes place on Nov 1st, 1977, and the plane landed on the island Jan 8th 2008? that's a difference of 30 years, 2 months and 7 days. Most people would just round that off to 30 years.
Now it is possible the plane time traveled back to 2007, because there was a change from night to day. But without knowing when the flight left, or exactly when in 1997 Jack and Co. arrived, we cannot know for sure when the flight landed, and when Jacob was possibly killed.
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Why does people say that the plane landed in 2007, or that the losties were in 2008? The "Through the looking glass" flashfowards happened in 2007. They returned to the island a few days later. SO they went to the island in 2007, and when they arrived to the island [true - it was suddenly day, but Sayid also acknowledge this in "The Constant"] they STILL were in 2007. So when Jacob visited Hurley, it was 2007, some days before Ben stabbed him in the island.
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no you are mistaken the stabing was after the taxi but the question is how did jacob got back to the island when he was in california the day before????
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I didn't notice that, but Locke's fake passport could've very well had a fake date. The writers, and everyone else are usually pretty acurate with this stuff. But don't you think that the characters would've dressed a bit cold in off-Island S5 then? I think I'll wait for some more solid proof. But thanks for pointing that out!
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if you read the trivia in that article, which you should have if you wanted to consider yourself right, it says that neither of the dates on the newspaper are accurate b/c Locke's fake passport was dated December 2007. He was alive for over a month and the events after his death were over a month. Therefore, Ajira flight 316 was in 2008. There's no disproving it, unless you get the producers to straight up tell, but they wouldn't b/c it wouldn't be true.
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The Ajira flight was definetely in January 2008. it says it in the article about it. do some research before you post something.
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Please see: Newspaper clipping.
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For the people saying that 316 took flight in 2008, I believe you need to re-watch Through the Looking Glass. The newspaper that Jack has, if you zoom in, says 2007 (I forget what month, and what day, though.). 316 takes place only a matter of a few days, possibly a week after TTLG, meaning that the time-line is correct, and Jacob isn't dead when he sees Hurley. That meeting takes place maybe a week before Ben stabs him.
