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TIME TRAVEL Part 2

AlekMilo March 29, 2009 User blog:AlekMilo

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I think the fact is that Widmore never had that memory until John literally did that in real time (went to Richard's camp and met Locke). It's like time was changed, memories were changed. Pretend locke is in a real time time line. He never saw Widmore until he did it. Widmore didn't have those memories until Locke (in his own time line) was time traveling and he encountered Widmore. Unless you think that everything is predestined or predetermined, and Locke was meant (according to his future timeline which is essentially pre-written out for him) to go and meet Widmore because that is the memory that Widmore had since a youngster. This concept of predetermination/destiny kinda sounds like the writers, but I don't think that it is true. I don't think that Widmore had the memory of the old man he didn't know growing up. That memory and all the memories that go along with remembering this old man were transfered to Widmore and became a part of him when John travelled through time and changed it. This goes against the Whatever Happened, Happened theory, but recently I have been disagreeing with this theory more and more. I have seen many examples of changing the past. Its a matter of conflicting time lines that intersect. Sayid didn't have the memory of shooting young ben until it happened, that's because it just happened. However, ben would have had that memory as long as he can remember. I think that ben was never shot and had grown up never having known he'd been shot by a "middle-eastern-looking" guy (later to know him as Sayid), UNTIL SAYID SHOT HIM IN THE PRESENT (His present-Sayid's Most Recent memory). This changed time and ben's memories. Some people think that Ben knew Sayid had shot him when he commissioned him to make some hits, saying that he thought sayid was a natural born killer and that's how he knew. But, I disagree with this: Ben didn't know yet but all the memories were transferred to him when Sayid actually did that in the present time frame.

    • Also, Richard told Locke that next time you see me I won't recognize you because the next time he saw him would be in 1954 and he would have never met John Locke. So you see he didn't have that memory since the 50's, John had to go back there and do it. This is the same with Widmore, and Ben.
    • Richard seems to be all knowing. Even though his past 50's self wouldn't know who John is, he knew in the future that John would go there and he wouldn't recognize or know him. This is why I think that Richard had possibly died, possibly at some point after his 50's self and he became all knowing of past and future. This is kind of how it seems for dead people. We don't know about Locke yet, but in the mobisode where you see Christian sheppard right after 815 crashes, he is in the clothes he was put in the coffin in and now he's standing up. Talking about his son Jack, he says: "He has a lot of work to do". I think that dieing and coming to the island in some way gives you a preternatural understanding of what has happened, what will happen, and what will happen in the past. I think Richard is like this.


    • I think that Abbadon helped John get to 815 because Alpert/Abbadon/Widmore or someone else knew John was special and needed to go to the Island, it has been forecasted that John is special and the ultimate leader for the Others. Its not because Widmore had remembered John and told Abbadon to encourage him to go on the walkabout. Also, Alpert visited John at a young age, he knew what John would become and he visited him at a young age because he can travel through time. Its also possible that Abbadon is a vessel of some kind that works for the island, somewhat independently of Widmore and his organization. Abbadon says "I get people where they need to go". He might be special in his own way and know things. Or there really could be pre-determined fate in which Widmore remembered Locke before he even did the act of meeting him. I still disagree with this. I am fairly firm in my theory of changing the past and when you change someone's past all of those memories get transferred to them and applied to their time line.
    • It is possible that Desmond is special, in the way that he communicates to Faraday/others through time, but I still think that these people who travelled time changed other peoples' memories (essentially adding memories)- Desmond woke up with the memory.
    • Question: could someone refresh my memory on when Charlotte said she remembered faraday before he even met her as a child in his current time line. **IMPORTANT: Charlotte was caught in that process where she keeps traveling through time at extremely high rates (in her own mind and consciousness): the future and the past. This was the same as that lady that Faraday was experimenting on in Oxford and she was stuck in that state in a hospital bed and desmond visited her. Charlotte eventually did too, like Symkowski or whatever his name is. That process that happened to them killed Charlotte and its possible that during that she was all knowing or traveling through time so rapidy that she saw faraday talk to her in HIS near future, thus she was given that memory throughout her lifetime (it was transferred to her through the process of ultra-fast time travel that she was going through). Its kinda like when desmond was going through that exact thing on his own: He was mentally transferred to times in his past when he knew the future: like when he ran into Charlie on the street playing that Oasis song. That process, or whatever you want to call it, makes you essentially travel through time and be all knowing, it can possibly make make you travel to the future or know the future as well. Charlotte had it bad. *Also it can make you NOT all-knowing like when desmond lost track of where he was and who he was with when he was on the Helicopter with Frank and them and he had what seemed like a full loss of memory. But what it really was was the process: Desmond's Consciousness of Time and Place got mixed up and jumbled through the process. This is what the island (?electro-magnetism?/not following exact coordinates off and on the island/relative time being different) can do to you, it mixes up your consciousness of time and place, giving you future knowledge or, in Desmond's case, a lack of present knowledge.
    • Its all fairly confusing and has a lot to do with Space time, but excluding the process where you are traveling through time at highly rapid rates and seeing and doing things, I think that normal rules apply. Normal time travel is what Locke was doing- He changed time when he saw and met Widmore for the first time, thus altering Widmore's own memories/timeline. Its different when you get stuck in what happened to Charlotte, that Lady that Farady F-ed up in oxford, and what desmond was going through. remember you have to find a constant, etc....
    • Also, going back to the Eloise Hawking theory of whatever happened, happened: I think it is true that if someone was, for example meant to die, that they will. This means that you can't change things that are important or meant to happen as prophecized by who/whatever (The Island?, Fate?). Michael couldn't kill himself, the Island wasn't done with him. Charlie had to die even though desmond kept saving him, its specific things. When eloise told Desmond that she couldn't have saved the man in the red shoes, this is true. That was meant to happen. **** This doesn't mean that you can't travel through time and change things (ex. Locke and Widmore, Ben and Sayid, Faraday and Desmond)- You can still change peoples' memories if you travel through time and impact them. It just means that you can't change events that were meant to happen and were supposed to happen. This could explain why Sayid couldn't have killed Ben at that age because he was meant/supposed to do various things.

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