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The Shape of Things to Come/Theories

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The Shape of Things to Come 		Main Discussion
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Contents

Flashforward

Ben can't kill Charles Widmore

  • Team Darlton confirmed in the most recent abc.com podcast (May 19) that the reason Ben and Widmore cannot kill each other is because they both are abiding by a set of rules set by the island and therefore the island will not let them die/kill each other until their work is done, much in the same fashion as Michael's inability to die earlier this season.
  • Ben can't kill Widmore because Charles can't be killed off the Island same as Michael, meaning Charles has been to the Island before. Charles was on the island pre-DHARMA and may be extremely old. He somehow left the Island and has been trying to return ever since.
    • The reason Michael cannot be killed is not because he is off the Island, but because the Island "won't let him," meaning that the Island has more for him to do.
    • If Widmore simply wanted to get on the Island he would've done it. He has other initiatives with Ben and killing everyone on the Island.
      • But Widmore can't find the island, and at the end of the episode Ben confirms this by saying, "You'll never find it."
      • Widmore can't find the Island for the same or similar reason Ben can't kill him, and Michael can't kill himself. "The Island won't let him," or take your pick from the rest of this list. His freighter has already found the Island, so you wouldn't think it would be too hard. But even if Widmore himself were to be on that freighter, and have Lapidus try to fly him to the Island, fate would intervene and he would never even see it.
        • The freighter people also only found the island's location because they were contacted from it (by Jack). Naomi did find it without being contacted, but she did not seem to expect to find it when she did, and it appeared to be more down to luck. The island may have been previously impossible to locate because of a magnetic field surrounding it which has now been destroyed/de-activated ever since Desmond imploded The Swan.
    • This seeming immortality may also explain Richard Alpert. Alpert cannot die off Island and cannot age off the Island either.
      • Neither Widmore or Alpert are Island natives any more than anyone else is. Alpert was part of a group of Island residents led by Widmore but Widmore somehow got off the Island.
      • Maybe the reason Widmore was so intent on buying the Black Rock ledger was because both he and Richard were crew members on it, and having spent so many years on the Island they never aged, and developed a sense of immortality, but Widmore decided to join DHARMA when they got to the Island whereas Richard did not, and perhaps got put to work in the Orchid station, being transported off the Island before the Purge.
      • Richard and Widmore were on the Black Rock together, but Richard was one of the slaves while Widmore was one of the crew. The slaves escaped after the shipwreck, and became two groups of Others that are now on the Island, each of them referring to the other as the Hostiles.
        • One of the crewmen had a baby with one of the slavewomen, in some sort of Romeo and Juliet type relationship. These two are the Adam and Eve, but they were killed for their disloyalty, and the baby was raised by Charles who brought her off the island, who turns out to be Penelope. Desmond is a "slave child" according to the crew (and Widmore), and he wants to marry a "crew child" just like the previous generation, and Widmore won't allow it, and neither will Ben allow it (because he will kill her).
          • This is not possible: The ship crashed in 1885. Penelope is not over 100 years old. Women who get pregnant on the island die before they give birth.
  • The reason that Ben can’t kill Widmore is because they are both using each other as their “constant” and if Ben kills Widmore then he will also die.
    • The two have been in contact with each other in the past, on island, and Ben is a time traveler. Widmore says: "I was wondering when you were going to show up," as if he had been expecting him--and as if this were not the first time Ben had made a random appearance to see Charles. When Ben jumps through time, he must always contact Charles because Charles is his constant, hence, he cannot kill him or he will die himself during his time jumps.
  • Ben can't kill Widmore because Widmore has something Ben needs or wants. Or something will be unleashed if Widmore is killed. Hence, Ben has to beat Widmore or get him to quit.
  • Ben doesn't actually want Widmore to die. Instead, he wants him to live with the pain of having his daughter taken from him, the way Alex was taken from Ben. He simply wants Widmore to live so he can suffer with never finding the island and losing his daughter.
  • There is some time paradox surrounding Widmore, something like how you can't go back in time and kill your own grandfather. Widmore (and perhaps Michael and others), are somehow connected to a time-travel problem which precludes them being killed.
    • The use of lighting during their discussion was more than a simple style reference to Star Wars; perhaps it is more of a clue--that Widmore is actually Ben's father, as Vader was Luke's father. Then Ben faces the "Grandfather Paradox": if he kills his father, he himself would cease to be. Therefore, he can't kill Widmore as it would be at his own risk, or Fate makes it simply not possible for any attempt to kill him to work.
    • We don't actually know if Roger Workman was really Ben's biological father.
    • This paradox would still work even if Widmore is some very distant relative of Ben.
      • This means that Ben cannot be a direct relative of Penelope, since he plans on killing her.
  • Jacob runs a game between Charles and Ben. There are rules of this game and the prize is the Island. If Jacob is indeed one of Widmore's ancestors/relatives, that would be his connection. If the Black Rock crew are indeed the original Others, then a fallout could have occurred creating the Hostiles on one side and DHARMA on the other. Ben purged the DHARMA team leaving Widmore with no connection (which is why he said the Island was his). Jacob could be holding a contest to see who deserves the Island for keeps: His descendant Charles (DHARMA) or the crew of his ship (Hostiles/Others). Having no path to the Island, Widmore wanted the Black Rock ledger to get back and fight for it.
    • To Ben and Widmore, this is no more than an elaborate high stakes bet: they both want the island and have found a way to "play" for it. The fact that the Island has so many mysteries just adds to the excitement and intensity of the "game." The others and all of the Losties are just pawns. Ben can't kill Widmore because then the game would be over; he wants to win and savor his victory.
  • Ben and Widmore represent "good" and "evil". Neither good nor evil can kill the other. The Island is something that one of them controls, i.e., good vs. evil. Ben controls it now; Widmore did at one time and wants it back. But the question is, which one is good and which one is evil? Ben said in an earlier episode, "We're the good guys."
    • They are (and have been for probably a long time) the two most powerful people in the world because they know the existence of the island and its powers, apparently are sometimes able to use those powers, and at different times have "owned it". There is a chance they can't die by way of using time travel.
    • They are two "gods" vying for power. Ben is the self-proclaimed "good" one (as he had said a long time ago), and Widmore the "bad" one. If Widmore takes control of the Island again, the Earth will enter an age of darkness (again; Widmore already "owned" the Island). As Ben told Sayid, they are in a war.
  • Due to island's time trip special power, Ben and Widmore know that they will live in the future. They will meet each other in a future time trip. They don't know what will happen, but only know that it's impossible to die this day because in the future they are still alive.

Nadia's Death

  • Widmore had Nadia killed.
    • Sayid told Nadia all about the Island and how the story the Oceanic 6 are telling is a coverup. Nadia wanted to go public or tell someone instead of keeping the secret, so Widmore's people kill her to shut her up.
    • Widmore hired Bakir to kill Sayid, as he was the most reluctant to keep information about the Island and 815 secret. Sayid's death would incite fear into the rest of the Oceanic Six. Bakir killed Nadia by mistake.
      • This echoes Alex's death; Widmore will have further problems as he has hired men that are trigger happy and "change the rules".
    • Bakir was certainly a Widmore hireling--otherwise, he probably would have looked confused when Ben said he wanted him to deliver a message to Widmore.
  • Ben had Nadia killed to convince Sayid to work for him.
    • Nadia was killed on October 20, Ben was teletransported from December 30, 2004 to October 24, 2005.

On the island

Claire

SAWYER: You all right, sweetheart?
CLAIRE: Yeah, a bit wobbly, but, uh, I'll live.
MILES: Well, I wouldn't be too sure about that.
While still making their way back to the beach - the day after seperating from Locke, Ben, and Hurley - they have to make camp for the night, and she dies while Sawyer (and maybe Miles) is sleeping, as a result of the head wounds suffered when the building she was in was blown apart by an RPG.
  • Claire's death is evidenced by the fact that:
  1. In the next episode she has apparently left her child and gone missing during the night.
  2. In the next episode she is seen sitting in the cabin at night, in total darkness, with undead Christian, acting very peculiar (as if that isn't peculiar enough) and expressing no interest in Aaron's whereabouts or wellbeing.
  3. Miles' made the cryptic remark referred to above.
  4. There is (at least) a rumor going around that one of the female series regulars will not be around next season.
  • Claire died in this episode. James found another version of her, similiar to Christian.

"Changed the rules"

  • The Lost Universe has to conform to a set of rules and Widmore figured out how to change them.
    • Perhaps Widomore tells Ben that Ben himself changed the rules because as far as Widmore is concerned, Ben attacked first because of an above theory that Ben went back in time, killed all of the freighties in the jungle, or actually on the boat (as well as the doctor who suddenly washed up) and then the Monster took over to course correct time. So technically, Ben changed the rules first and that is what Widmore meant by saying that Ben was the one who did the changing. So Widmore is in fact correct in saying this according to a timeline. Maybe this is why Ben comes back so dirty, he's just cleaning up from Rambo mode.
    • Ben can't kill Widmore because the island won't allow it, just like Michael couldn't kill himself. Hence, "We both know that I can't do that"
      • When Widmore tells Ben he knows "what" he is, perhaps this is a time loop like Desmond and his ring. Maybe Ben is a younger/past/maybe future version of Widmore or vice versa, and can't kill him because then neither would exist. Perhaps the "rules" then are the way things were/are/supposed to be, and in that set of reality Alex doesn't die, so Widmore/Ben or whoever/whatever he is, changed the rules, like Desmond would have if he bought Penny the ring.
        • And The Rules maybe the course correction that Ms. Hawking warned Desmond of. That somehow Widmore has caused something to happen that time couldn't repair.
    • This is due to a time loop that is occurring until a certain result is achieved.
      • This is highly unlikely, as Ben and Widmore do not look at all alike.
    • This is why Ben told 'Kevin' that he couldn't set off the bomb on the boat since there were innocent people there.
    • It would seem that there was an unspoken agreement to not make this personal or involving each parties direct relatives (Alex wasn't Ben's biological daughter, but he raised her as one and therefore should be counted as one). So when Martin killed Alex, he stepped past the boundary and therefore broke the "rules."
      • This seems consistent with Ben's emotional reaction. When Alex died, he didn't seem shocked in the sense that they did something that was impossible to do, but shocked in the sense that the Widmore people crossed a serious line that he genuinely did not expect them to cross. His rage and shock was more along the lines of "how dare they!" than "how could that be possible?"
        • I disagree. His was certainly in shock with a look that would say "I knew that couldn't happen, but somehow it did". As if he already seen this event before and lived through it with a different ending. There is a reason for his confidence and also how he always knows what to do next.
        • Yes, "the rules" are the rules of time travel referenced by Faraday to Desmond in "Because You Left". Ben's genuine shock at seeing Alex executed was due to his knowledge of a future in which she had survived. Widmore's changing of the rules allowed for her death.
      • Wouldn't have Ben's claim that Alex wasn't his real daughter just encouraged them to kill her then?
        • His claims that she wasn't his daughter and she meant nothing to him was "self-talk" to convince himself that he didn't have feelings for her. He knew that it was going to come down to the wire. Either he go with them or Alex is killed. Under no circumstances that he could control would he go with them.
        • He was trying to make it seem like it would be pointless to kill her. If he convinced Keamy that he really didn't care about her, and if Keamy had some compassion he could have been swayed to just hold her as a captive and not kill her. Obviously Ben's plan backfired.
          • Backfired? Think of it this way. BEN changed the rules. When Ben was faced with the choice, he chose to point out to the Widmore gang that she wasn't his daughter. (and really wasn't) With that said, he made it so in the universe that whatever rules were in place, she didn't apply now and forced the Widmore gang to shoot her. He made a big mistake.
            • No he didn't. Keamy was going to kill her regardless if Ben didn't surrender and maybe even then. That's why Ben claims Widmore changed the rules. At that point Ben had one trick left and it just didn't work. Widmore changed the rules of the game. Ben was trying to save Alex's life. He was not giving Keamy permission to kill her. He was horrified and shocked that it went that far because of the rules.
              • The point is that Ben was already scared and intimidated by these people and to see one of them execute his daughter in front of him took it to a new level.
              • Has anyone ever actually seen Ben scared or intimidated? It seems to me that his shock didn't necessarily result from his daughter's death itself, but from his belief that she should have been protected by something, whether a time-travel paradox, a gentleman's agreement with Widmore, etc. I got the impression that not only was he upset about his daughter, he was also afraid for his own life since the rules were changing. This is why he kicked it up into mercenary Ben mode and really made some things happen.
  • The rules are related to the core environmental and human factors reflected by the Numbers and the Valenzetti Equation.
    • One of the stated goals of DHARMA is to change one of the variables of the Valenzetti equation, perhaps "changing the rules".
  • The "rule" that Widmore changed was how the Monster works. The last thing Ben says before Alex's execution was something along the lines of, "She's willing to sacrifice herself in defense of this Island." He said that because showing true loyalty to the Island should be enough to call the Island (in the form of the Monster) to one's defense. The willingness to sacrifice will result in no need for a sacrifice (like Abraham sacrificing Isaac). However, the Monster does not come, and Alex is killed, because "he changed the rules," forcing Ben to find another means of calling the Monster. Widmore is the God to Ben's Lucipher; he has the ability to change rules at his whim, but the two are still locked in an eternal struggle. Think about the imagery in the final scene, and connections to Paradise Lost.
    • He just thought the island's rules wouldn't allow her to die. She was innocent and maybe did have more work to do. But the monster has never been selective in a group as to some getting killed and some not. It comes to kill or it comes to judge or people get away. There has been no selection process from a group. So that rules out killing Keamy and not Alex. Ben said that they all needed to stay as far away from them as possible, on his order. That's a little far fetched with the bible stuff.
  • The rules are simply the rules to the bet or the game that Ben and Widmore are playing. They are playing for the island and pure glory over the other. The island has its own mysteries as does the Dharma Initiative. Ben uses all he has learned about the island and the "science" behind it to help him win, while Widmore uses his money and violence. Who will win? Ben? Widmore? Some unnamed party? The Island?
  • The rules are actual, written rules that tell the island who can die and who cannot. For example, it is written that Michael cannot die (as shown by his multiple suicide attempts) while other characters can. Ben was certain that his daughter could not be killed and was shocked that Widmore had changed the rules. These rules are either entered into the computer system on the island or told to Jacob
    • Unlikely. Time travel is hugely apparent now and when someone already has a destiny it is determined in stone. When someone travelled from the island to the future and a so-called person was alive, they will be alive till then. That is... if the rules aren't changed and that points back to the valenzetti equation as the island is a micro version of that for the whole world.
  • Ben will track down Penny who is somehow back together with Desmond. Ben will try to kill Penny but Desmond will kill him first. This is the "great thing" that he will do because Ben has been trying to cheat fate, which is emboided by Mrs. Hawking who told Desmond about the "great thing."
    • The great thing Desmond was born to do was to push the button. In fact, as Mrs Hawking said during Flashes Before Your Eyes it is the "only truly great thing [he] will ever do".
  • Either Ben is a personality of Widmore, or Widmore is a personality of Ben. The conversation in the bedroom (especially in the case of Widmore) sounded like a conversation Widmore was having with his split personality. If this is true, Widmore killed his own daughter, but in his own mind he thinks Ben killed her. He makes reference to keeping a drink by the bed when the nightmares started. They can't kill each other, possibly because they are both "imaginary". The game they are playing (and the rules they are following) are simply within the imaginary realms of Widmore's psychotic mind.
  • It is very simple. The rule that changed was harming children. Up to this point in the show, we have never had a child under 18 years of age killed. For a matter of observation, it seemed that even as far back as the Dharma project, children we given special attention. The Others were very interested in sheltering children, even if their purpose was to groom the children into future members of their tribe. When Ben instigated the Purge, we didn't see any children among the dead. Even when the Others had Karl in Room 23, the experiment was certainly not life threatening. Widmore changed the “rules” when he had Karl and Alex killed.
    • Unlikely, because Alex told Ben on the radio "They killed Karl". Ben should've said or expressed something if that theory is correct. Instead, he told her "I've got everything under control", and let her die. !
  • Ben and Widmore are playing to a formal set of rules, either dictated by themselves or an intermediary. The fact Sawyer, Locke, and Hurley were playing Risk during this episode is very important here, especially when you take into consideration the dialogue during that scene. This is important not only for the obvious correlation between this board game involving world domination and the apparent battle between Ben and Widmore, but Hurley says "Can't believe you're just giving him Australia. Australia's the key to the whole game." My eyes went wide at that line.
  • In addition to whatever meaning "changing the rules" has for the story, it also is a production reference used as a joke - the producers had claimed in an interview that all flashforwards will be shown in chronological order. They *changed the rules* by breaking the promised order (Iraq is obviously before Berlin and the Seychelles) and they are admitting it!
  • Widmore "changed the rules" when he killed Alex. However the "rule" is not that you can't kill family members, children, whatever. The rule is you can't knowingly kill another's "constant". When Charles killed Ben's constant he "changed the rules".
  • After "Dead Is Dead", we have some sense of "the rules" for a leader of the Others--foremost, always act in the Island's best interests (meaning, among other things, never leave the island [unless banished, in which case, never return] and abstain from fostering contradictory attachments [i.e., no fathering of children off-Island]). While Ben accused Widmore of breaking the rules by killing Alex, Ben ultimately accepted that it was actually his attachment to Alex that broke the rules.

Jack is getting sick

  • The Island and/or Jacob caused Jack's illness as a punishment for making the bad decision of calling the Freighter.
  • Jack may be beginning to abuse pain medications (as seen in "Through the Looking Glass") -- overuse causes stomach or gastrointestinal complications.
  • There was an interesting line from Jack when he's taking the antibiotics. Kate asks him if he has a prescription for the pills and he jokingly says, "Yeah, I wrote it myself." This could be a connection to the scene at the pharmacy counter in "Through the Looking Glass" when the pharmacist thinks Jack signed for his own prescription, although Jack argues it's his father's signature.
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