FANDOM


This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the What They Died For article.
General discussion about the article's subject is permitted as a way to aid improvement of the article.
Theories about the article subject should not be discussed here.
(Instead, post your theory to this article's theory page
or discuss it on this article's theory talk page.)

  • Be polite, don't bite, have fun!
  • Admins are here to help
  • More discussion at the Forum
Article policies

Centricity

  • Various Phobia27 02:06, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • No, Ben/Desmond with a opening flash from Jack. SLRibs 02:07, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Various InflatableBombshelter 02:11, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Various. Jack, Desmond, Ben and Sawyer had flashes. It's possible others had some too. LeoChris 02:22, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Various or none.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  02:28, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Various Unlike Season 5 where we had no flashes, here we had flashes. cgmv123TalkContribsE-mail 02:33, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Hmm. Tough to say. The only people who had flashes focused on them were Jack and Ben... ones like Sawyer would then cut to another person. I guess 'none'. (Kdc2 02:34, May 19, 2010 (UTC))
  • Various meaning Jack, Ben, James, Desmond and Locke. They all had POV scenes in the FS and they all had pretty close to equal focus. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  02:38, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Various, but I have to ask: Where was there a Locke flash-sideways? Locke appeared in Desmond's, Ben's, and Jack's flashes, but did he ever have one of his own in this episode? Gefred7112 02:47, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Various: Jack, Desmond, Ben, Sawyer, and maybe Miles. He didn't get a lot of screen-time, but I think one of the flash-sideways seemed to begin with his POV. But also, I'm not sure Locke had a flash-sideways. Just appeared in Ben's, Jack's and Desmond's. Golden Monkey 03:16, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Jack and Ben. Maybe Jack, Ben, and Sawyer. Definitely not Desmond, because he didn't appear on-island, and not Locke as per above. Bish-Fiscuit 03:25, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • But there were several flash-sideways scenes from Desmond's POV, that also didn't feature Jack, Ben, or Sawyer. Like the final scene. The focus in them was on Desmond as well. So...whose centric are those scenes, Bish-Fiscuit?Golden Monkey 03:46, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • Nobody's? Bish-Fiscuit 04:04, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
      • But they're from Desmond's point of view. Regardless of whether he appeared on Island or not, they were his flashes and not "nobody's". Golden Monkey 04:08, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Ben was very prominent in the middle of the episode, and had multiple FSs including two where no other main characters appeared. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by NoMoreFun (talkcontribs) 2010-05-18T23:43:57.
    • And? I don't dispute that Ben had flashes. I'm arguing that Desmond had them too. In my view, it was centric to Jack, Desmond, Ben and Sawyer. Golden Monkey 08:30, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Zoe

I have only been watching the last 3 episodes since season one but when I saw Zoe in a red shirt it was obvious what her fate was. Alatari 02:17, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

  • OK, she's too developed (no pun intended) to be a real Red Shirt. She's one of the Red Shirts with a Twist - a plot twist that is. I don't why this hasn't been a category, because this has been a deliberate and consistent theme ever since they intended to kill off the pilot, Jack Shepherd (as played by Michael Keaton) since the original script. The writers have said as much when they said a main character and two Red Shirts go off in the jungle then the Red Shirts come back alive was a clever idea. Rosenkratz and Gilderstern are not dead, goes the cry. We need a category and a listing of these characters. We've had Naomi, Ilana, Oscar, Seamus, and now Zoe just to name a few. I'd put Anna Lucia, Libby and maybe Nathan in there as well, especially since their reason on the Island wasn't resolved.--Lucky Day | msg 20:38, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

New Otherton Pylons

What exactly happened to the pylons around New Otherton that were supposed to prevent Smokey from entering? -- Xbenlinusx 02:27, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

  • My guess is that they are turned off, with no one knowing the passcode to turn them back on again. Besides, Flocke entered the Barracks via boat. Phobia27 02:28, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • The fence got turned off in "The Shape of Things to Come" by Alex so Keamy and his men could get in. It has never been turned back on since then. --D Toccs 03:09, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Richard and Frank

Can we assume Richard is dead? Also, can we assume Frank is dead too? Both lame deaths if you ask me, after all that stuff on Isabella and "not being allowed to kill him" Richard is just chucked away like garbage. Phobia27 02:28, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Let's not assume anything. We should wait until the official ABC.com cast bios are updated, and see if anybody confirms anything tomorrow. Bish-Fiscuit 02:30, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • For now it may be safe to assume Frank is dead, but Richard should definitely be considered an unknown. At least with Frank we saw the sub sinking to the bottom of the ocean. With Richard all we saw was him getting swept up by Smokey with no indication whatsoever as to his status. Saying he's dead is really really jumping the gun here. InflatableBombshelter 02:31, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Assume both are unknown. If we don't hear anything by Monday, we'll acknowledge they're dead.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  02:32, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Yeah, I agree. Unknowns for both of them. Although I highly doubt they're bringing Frank back. They've got bigger fish to fry in the finale. And they had the perfect opportunity to bring him back when they were all staring out to sea. So I'm99% sure Frank's dead. As for Alpert, if that was the end of him, I'll be so pissed... what a stupid way to kill him off. SethFlight815 02:40, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • Well, someone will have to serve the new Jacob (Jack or other candidate) - maybe Richard still or...? J.nc 02:46, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
Unknown cgmv123TalkContribsE-mail 02:47, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Well the Series Finale is this Sunday. I think we should wait until the Series Finale airs. If they don't appear or if they're not mentioned then it'd be save to assume they're dead. In the mean time they should be left at "Unknown" status. Just a thought. Marko14126 02:50, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Agreed, unknown till Monday then. I just think if MIB had the ability to carry Richard with a great force out of the Barracks you would assume MIB killed him. Phobia27 03:15, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • I think Richard is near death but still alive somewhere. The MiB just wanted to get him out of the way. Miles or Jack will find him and he will reveal a final means of killing the MiB. Uzerzero 03:23, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Frank I can't see possibly being alive, but Richard seemed to just be swept away rather quickly to be dead (at the most, he's gravely injured, and waiting to give one last piece of advice before bleeding to death). If he were really killed, we'd have seen his body dropped in front of the camera one last time before the camera cut away, much as Eko, et. al. Spyderboyy 05:49, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Alive or dead Frank is irrelevant. (But he's dead in a watery grave - which is sad for a pilot!). But Richard is another matter. His quasi immortality, his long importance to the Lost mythos would make such a sudden and un-mourned passing hard to tolerate. On the other hand why MiB let him hang about for so long is a bit of a mystery, unless MiB can't kill him and that performance was just a hissy fit. I'd risk betting that he's gone though - why? - because his sponsor is gone as of tonight, and because he has too much blood on his hands.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   17:40, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Episode connections

Allusion to Pilot episode

Jack stitching up Kate is probably a reference to Kate stitching up Jack in the Pilot. Not to mention the scene opening on Jack's eye.NeoCortex 02:37, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, also the whole bamboo grove location is a reference to the pilot as well. Uzerzero 03:38, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Sawyer

It should be noted that since Sawyer is at least partially responsible for the deaths of Sun and Jin, and for the orphaning of Ji Yeon, he has now become like Anthony Cooper, the man who caused his parent's deaths and left him an orphan.MarkFunk 03:35, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

  • That seems like a stretch to me. The intent is really different in those two cases. Sawyer was attempting to SAVE Jin and Sun. LeoChris 03:38, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Sawyer already felt like he was like Anthony Cooper. That was why he changed his name to Sawyer. Throughout the series, Sawyer has progressed from being someone who cared only about himself to finally being someone who realizes the consequences of his choices and a person who cares for others. Uzerzero 03:44, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • My point is that Anthony Cooper, the con-man, bears some of the responsibility for the deaths of the Fords, and little James is left orphaned. Now Sawyer, a con-man bears some of the responsibility for the deaths of the Kwons, and little Ji Yeon is left orphaned. I'm just pointing out there are some parallels here, no matter how much Sawyer's character has changed, or what his intentions on the sub were. It's just an interesting parallel.MarkFunk 03:50, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
      • Duly noted. That does seem like a purposeful connection. I forgot about Kate telling Sawyer about the Kwon's child. Uzerzero 03:52, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • It's ironic. Withac 04:13, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Unanswered questions

  • I removed "Why are Kate and Desmond going to the concert?" ... a "what comes next" question. --- Balk Of Fametalk 07:41, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
Well... its pretty obvious...
Ditto "Where is Hurley going with Sayid?" --- Balk Of Fametalk 07:42, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Removed "Who helped Desmond out of the well?" Implied strongly that it's Sayid, and if it is, we'll never get confirmation. --- Balk Of Fametalk 07:44, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
Wait, forget that. Sayid said Desmond was still in the well. --- Balk Of Fametalk 07:45, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
No spoilers. Uzerzero 15:09, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • What is in the boxes on Widmore's boat? <-- Is this an important question that should be included? --Akege 17:14, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting support - a visual cue and a spoken one are made. kind of like the MiB's staff, it may be a red herring but even red herrings are deliberate.--Lucky Day | msg 23:33, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
  • I removed "How does Desmond know that Christian's coffin is missing?" because I don't think it will be answered. Desmond is very resourceful in the FST, being that he works for Widmore. I don't think it's that surprising that he knows about Jack's lost cargo.Mckboy 17:47, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • Pictogram voting support He obtained the 815 passenger manifest with a simple request to George.Duncan905 19:01, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
  • I removed "What happened to Richard?" as it was leading. See talk above.--Lucky Day | msg 00:08, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Ana Lucia..Ready..Set...

Ana Lucia ready? I haven't removed this question. It's obvious what she needs to be ready for so that's the problem. Its the wrong question - probably what needs to be said is how does she need to be made ready. Take a look at Locke - he still doesn't get it and he's as traumatic experiences as Dez and Charlie. And, is it really an important question?--Lucky Day | msg 00:36, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

The Light

Maybe I just missed something from "Across the Sea" and "What They Died For"... but when Jacob was telling Jack he needs to protect the light, I wondered... didn't the light already go out when Jacob threw the MIB into the source in Across the Sea? (Kdc2 03:41, May 19, 2010 (UTC))

  • No, no, no. This has been beaten to death. Obviously, if Jacob is telling Jack that he has to protect the light in the center of the Island from the MiB, then it is still there. It never went out. Maybe the Smoke Monster came out of the cave because it was rejected. Uzerzero 03:44, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Also, the light was seen when Ben and Locke moved the wheel (and the Island) --erikire 06:12, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
Why, then, did it get so dark right before Smokey was about to emerge?(Kdc2 22:46, May 19, 2010 (UTC))

AQ Discussion

Who rigged the C4 on the plane?

  • Charles Widmore as the MiB said. Although the Others had the same plan, even with a shortcut, the distance from the Black Rock to Dharma Barracks is immense. In fact, in all that time the events on the submarine and Hydra Island were completed and still Widmore was able to intercept them there before they could even begin to execute the plan. The Smoke Monster was able to catch up to them before they could leave as well.--Lucky Day | msg 23:10, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Why can't people in the FST remember their lives on the Island? Why won't Locke let Jack fix him? Can Desmond remember both timelines now?

  • Ben remembers his life and is not happy after Desmond beats him up. He further seems to remember a connection with Alex and possibly Danielle. His revelation leads him to to tell Locke to "let go". Locke sees significance in this and volunteers to the surgery to Jack. Hurley recognizes the significance of Anna Lucia, but Dez says she's "not ready". This may be a sign that both Dez and Hurley remember a lot more now.--Lucky Day | msg 21:43, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Who is the Mysterious Boy? Why did the MiB kick Jacob's body into the fire?

  • The ghost of the Mysterious Boy changes to an adult Jacob when the rest of his remains are burnt off. When they are finished burning he dies.--Lucky Day | msg 21:34, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Why can only certain people see Jacob? Do they have to be a candidate?

  • Hurley is surprised by this too.--Lucky Day | msg 21:34, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Why did Jacob bring the Losties to the Island? What is the meaning of the names on cave wall and the Lighthouse? Which Kwon is the Candidate? Is Kate a Candidate? Why are people's names (why is Kate's name) cross off? Does this mean they are dead/going to die?

  • Jacob says they were brought to the Island to replace him. They were chosen because, like him, they are alone and flawed and takes exception to any statement that they weren't. Kate was crossed off the list because she became a mother, but anyone could be a candidate, even her; the lists are just a name on a wall. He doesn't say if Sun or Jin are the candidate but almost implies they both were.

Who is the Candidate? What is the meaning of the wine in the bottle? Will it be needed again when Jacob finds the candidate to replace him?

  • Jack volunteers to replace Jacob. Sawyer comments on Jack's "God complex". The wine and bottle having been destroyed by the MiB 150 years ago, Jacob uses a cup Jack found and water as a substitute in the ritual that makes Jack "like [him]". --Lucky Day | msg 21:20, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Why/How is Widmore back on the Island? What does the MiB want with Desmond? Why didn't he just kill him? Is Desmond a candidate? Why was Desmond in the hatch pushing a button for all these years?

  • Widmore tells Ben he was recruited by Jacob and shown the error of his ways. He further states to the MiB that Desmond is a failsafe due to his immunity to electromagnetism, in case Jacob's plan for a successor fails . The MiB wants to use Desmond to destroy the Island once he leaves.--Lucky Day | msg 21:20, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

What are the rules? Why can't Ben kill Widmore? Why didn't Sayid just kill Zoe? Did Sawyer's action kill Jin, Sun and Sayid on the sub?

  • Talking to the MiB removes some sort of protection from being killed by him. Zoe's response to him left her vulnerable and open for attack. Widmore's dealing with the MiB apparently removed this as well and Ben was finally able to get his revenge, though this may have been a lie to prevent important information, which the MiB was able to get anyway.
  • Sawyer feels guilty and realizes his action may have been the cause of death of the other Losties, by virtue of the rules of only candidates being able to kill other candidates. Jack, whose action inadvertently caused the death of Juliet, reassures Sawyer that the MiB is ultimately responsible.--Lucky Day | msg 21:17, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Location of the Source

Where is the location of the Source?

  • behind the bamboo forest where Jack originally woke up.--Lucky Day | msg 21:17, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Now that we have directions to the Source, can somebody pinpoint this on one of the maps? It'd be interesting to see if one of the pockets highlighted on the Dharma EM pocket map lines up with it. Uzerzero 03:44, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Based on what Jacob said to Jack, I doubt that it's possible to find the Source on a map if you're not chosen as its protector. The Man in Black searched for it for decades before Jacob threw him into it, but was unable to find it — and he was aware of the magnetic focal points. If there was a geographical connection between the EM focal points and the location of the Source, I think that the MiB would have found it before his death/transformation/whatever. —Josiah Rowe 04:57, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • Pictogram voting support I think the existence of the Lighthouse being unnoticed despite its height supports this. Duncan905 19:07, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
  • I think it's pretty clear that it's not that he can't see it or stumble upon it, but that he is prevented from seeing it. The only way to get to it is by removing the blindfold, in this case Jacob. This is why Jack has to physically prevent the MiB from reaching the light because he can now see it and the only way to stop him from entering is to kill him. Uzerzero 05:59, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • I am apparently going to go out on a limb here and say there is a connection between EM pockets and the source. I mean that's how the MiB found a place to setup the FDW in the first place, he started digging around the EM pockets. Then at one point he started pulling back the cave wall to reveal the source. So there is more then 1 way to get there and apparently digging around the EM pockets can help you find it. - WhyDidntUKnow 12:18, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

The Kwons

So when Kate says "The Kwons, Jin and Sun?" and Jacob says yes, that's confirmation that both Kwons were candidates? --Jackdavinci 06:41, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

  • It seems like he's a bit flexible on who's actually a candidate. He said that Kate could take the job if she wanted even though her name was crossed off. Slimeham 07:16, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Yeah, but another thing to point out is Kate's name was crossed out because she became a mother (probably the same reason Littleton was also crossed out), that would mean if Sun was the only Kwon candidate, she too would be crossed out? I have always believed that the Kwon candidate is both of them. Phobia27 10:59, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • I took it to mean that Sun is NOT a candidate because she became a mother. Jin fathered a child, but he was never a father. Also, all of the candidates flashed through time, and Sun did not. Marc604 13:21, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Is Kate a mother because of her maternal role with Aaron or did Jacob reveal what up to now only he and Kate knew -- that Kate is pregnant?--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 14:44, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • If Kate was crossed off because she became a mother, shouldn't Sun have been crossed off too? Which would mean Jin was the Kwon. But he killed himself by staying with Sun, so he couldn't be the Kwon. I'm guessing this is a plot hole....--Joshtopher27 17:48, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • What you're forgetting is that Sawyer, despite it being unintentional, caused the bomb to explode, thus trapping Sun to the wall of the sub as it's sinking (therefore Sawyer causing Sun's death). Jin, however, refused to leave his wife to die alone after three years separated, so Sun being trapped is ultimately what caused Jin's death.--Jumpnbounce 21:36, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
  • OMG Blood tests needed for Kate!! Who is the papa. Also if Jack is the protector does that mean he is no longer "available" Also I remember when Kate and Sawyer did it - but when did Kate and Jack do it. And does that mean that Claire has lost rights to Aaron by some special Island custody rule? Or is Kate going to suckle two kids Aaron and Ji (or three if you count Sawyer)?    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   18:13, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Charles Kane, is that really you? Are you on drugs? Has a 13 year old taken over your body? Hee. —   lion of dharma    talk    email   18:38, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

  • regrettably the 13 year old took over my brain rather than my body. I'm suffering from Lostendingsoon blues. I'm also rewatching old Lost (just finished season 3) I think they all got tired. It was so awesome back then in the good old days!    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   19:03, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Kate and Jack spent the night together at his house before getting on Ajira 316.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 20:15, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it has to do with the fact that Kate had become Aaron's sole guardian. And maybe it would have been left up to the Kwons as to which one stayed and which one left to take care of the kid. MannyF 23:01, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

    • But that doesn't mean she gave birth. How long have they been back to find this out? No, Sun may be a mother but she was alone without Jin. They are emotionally invested in two different things. Motherhood was good enough for Kate but not Sun. This is a mother willing to leave her own child (with her mother) on the off chance she'd find her husband.--Lucky Day | msg 23:30, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
  • Well, I guess it seems that both Kwons were candidates originally. Heck, maybe he even specifically picked a couple to mirror the 'Mother's choice of twins. But, the fact that the name still had not been crossed out at the time of Jacob's death leaves things ambiguous. Either it became only Jin for a time, or maybe it even became only Sun for a time if Jacob thought time traveling Jin was gone and therefore dead, or maybe because both were still "Lost" without each other, the fact that they had a daughter was subordinate and they both remained candidates til the end. Too many possibilities! I guess it's still ambiguous. Other than it probably not being their daughter. But at least, I think, we can reasonably surmise that when the name was first chosen , that it referred to both Kwons. *Sigh*. OTOH, since Kate was crossed out, but still offered candidateship, I guess Jacob was leaving both Kwons open until such time as they either both died or one choice candidateship or both reunited in parenthood, and therefore, the mystery of which Kwon is still answered by "both". --Jackdavinci 07:56, May 20, 2010 (UTC)
    • "Mother" chose the twins? Cabeckett 02:38, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Did Ben change the rules?

By killing Widmore? In The Shape of Things to Come it was asserted that they can't kill each other, or maybe the rules don't apply inside the Island for them? — Iimitk  T  C  07:34, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

  • Well in The Shape of Things to Come, Widmore says "are you going to kill me" and Ben says "we both know I can't do that". Maybe all he meant was that he knew Widmore would kick his ass in a fight. --D Toccs 09:44, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • I took it to be that they both knew Widmore couldn't die at that point, because the island wasn't done with him yet. The same issue that Michael had trying to commit suicide after he left the island. But now that Widmore has returned to the island, and more importantly brought Desmond with him, it's done with him. So now, like Michael on the freighter, he's free to die (or in this case, be killed by Ben). --Maelwys 11:57, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • That may have been via their own rules.--Pittsburghmuggle 12:22, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • I think this was one of Jacob's rules, which expired with his death. OTOH, some of his rules regarding killing candidates did survive his death. Issue reopened. --Jackdavinci 07:59, May 20, 2010 (UTC)
    • I think the rule, as Widmore conveniently explained to Zoe as she lay dieing (and the writers have been using actors dialogue to spell things out for us all season), was you couldn't let the MiB talk to you. Ben knew this and saw either the opportunity or the danger of Widmore's explanation to the MiB.--Lucky Day | msg 21:51, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Plot flaw

Is it a flaw that the fire runs out and Jacob is gone before Jacob teaches Jack the incantation to allow Jack to enchant his successor? Alatari 03:45, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Stop applying logic to season 6. That way madness lies. Golden Monkey 03:55, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Mother never taught Jacob the incantation either. Maybe the Protector writes their own incantation. After all, Jack had to write his own vows at his and Sarah's wedding. Or the Island tells the Protector what the incantation is. Or it's written down somewhere. Uzerzero 04:41, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

I thought a bigger plot hole was that Ben killed Widmore, though he previously said that he couldn't do that.  Robert K S   tell me  05:20, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

  • Rules can be broken. Where's the plot hole? Marc604 05:24, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • If rules can be broken, why did MiB need a loophole to kill Jacob?  Robert K S   tell me  05:27, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • At this point Ben seems to have decided to hell with the damned rules. Hatchbanger 05:30, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • Besides, I think it can be assumed that two different set of rules affect Ben vs Widmore and Jacob vs Smokey. LeoChris 05:40, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
      • I'm thinking there are rules and then there are Rules. Hatchbanger 05:46, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • As of the end of this epidose Jacob was still very much present. He was last seen in the wide shot after telling Jack "we're the same". Jacob can be seen lifting his torch and walking back toward the fire, so he has not disappeared yet. --D Toccs 09:41, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • And because Jacob made Jack "like him", Jack now knows everything Jacob knows. Wasn't there a short glance of understanding in Jack's face after the drinking scene? --Akege 16:21, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
      • That's a huge leap in logic.--Chocky 17:28, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
      • Not at all. Unless the water drinking is just a ritual then it most likely does pass knowledge, or at least the ability to get knowledge. although Jacob had 2000 years to learn stuff it is unlikely he could reconstruct a lost incantation. I believed Mother taught him a lot during their 40 years together, but obviously that can't be true of Jack. Unless there is nothing to know except the existence of the light and everything flows from that (can he grant immortality to Hurley for example?).    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   18:02, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
      • "Now, you and I…are the same" (Across the sea) and "Now you're like me" (What they died for) are more than enough to eliminate any flaw. Their knowledge is the same.--Tflrntn 19:05, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Picard Maneuver

I know it will never pass muster in the cultural references, but are there any Trekkies out there who noticed Jacob doing the Picard maneuver when he stood up to tell the candidates how they were flawed? Frakkin Toaster 04:08, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

  • I didn't notice it as I was too busy listening and hastily jotting down notes/quotes. It's definitely not a cultural reference, more like a production note really since it has to do with the actor itself. Unless it was foreshadowing Jacob distracting the MiB while the fire is still burning, giving Jack enough time to kill him.... Uzerzero 04:45, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • What is "the Picard maneuver"?  Robert K S   tell me  05:19, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
      • Picard had a habit of straightening out his shirt by pulling down on it virtually every time he stood up from a seated position. Hatchbanger 05:40, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
      • In specific Star Trek terms, it was a maneuver that involved manipulating light to give the illusion of two ships when there was only one, giving him just enough time to destroy the attackers. Uzerzero 05:56, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
      • Jimbo's right, I was talking about the shirt thing, but that's a good call, Zero---I wonder if the final showdown will feature some variation of the maneuver to which you are referring. Frakkin Toaster 06:13, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
        • Pictogram voting oppose The shirt thing was a nod to the Old Series where the fabric the actors were using constantly shrunk and they needed to hide their midriffs. Its why Kirk always lost his shirt too. Now don't tell me that Lost fans aren't nerds!--Lucky Day | msg 21:47, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Farewell Messages from Fans?

During tonight's episode there was an ad for this thing where fans can text farewell messages to ABC and some of the messages will be shown during the finale. Is this going to be a repeat of the V countdown clock or will they will be relegated to the commercial break where they belong? Kajillion 05:23, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

  • I took it to mean the fan stuff will appear during the two-hour recap, where it's more than welcome. God, I hope that's where they put it! Marc604 05:25, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • ABC Medianet/ABC and Veriozon Lost farewell.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  05:49, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • Thank you. Kajillion 05:55, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • Thank god they won't have another abortion like that horrible 'V' intrusion. My hunch is that destroyed V's chances of making it out of this season alive. I will never watch it.Charles widmore 03:03, May 20, 2010 (UTC)
      • Of course, "V" was renewed... dmzimmerman 09:46, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
  • I'm hoping that the producers approved of this instead of it being another of ABC's wacky ideas that cuts out important information. I think it will be distracting though to THE finale where I will be watching every tiny detail so I'm just going to avoid the 'OMG gonna miss u losttttttttt' messages. Phobia27 10:57, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • I didn't text anything because I'd text something meaningful and different that I'm sure that they won't post just so they could put up more "OMG gonna miss u losttttttttt" messages.--Pittsburghmuggle 12:25, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Richard "smashed into a tree"

The article right now says "The Smoke Monster rushes at him and smashes him into a tree." I don't remember a tree, I thought he was just carried offscreen.--Pittsburghmuggle 12:04, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

  • I've watched the scene in slow-mo and can confirm he wasn't smashed into anything. I've changed both instances of "smashed into a tree" into "thrust into the air," for now. --Jacknicholson 14:44, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • Is it wrong that, when I saw this scene, my mind immediately went to "GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL!"--Gibbeynator 23:35, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • The tricky thing is, the smoke pushes him straight towards a tree's general direction, then right before he hits it, there's a camera change to him suddenly changing direction to the right. So if you are watching regularly, it sort of looks like he hits the tree and bounces off. But if you watch frame, by frame, it looks more like the smoke lunges, pushes him forward a bit, than grabs him and throws him offscreen at ninety degrees to the right. So, based on close analysis, I'd go with shoved backwards and than tossed off to the side. --Jackdavinci 08:06, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

Literary Technique

I removed the section stating Jacob was killed by fire and revived by fire. He was killed by being stabbed. Cabeckett 13:33, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

But he was still alive until he was kicked into the flames by MIB. --Golden Monkey 13:40, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
So then the loophole MIB found was that the protector had to be stabbed by somebody else before the MIB could kill him in the fire? No, Jacob's cause of death was being stabbed by Ben. Cabeckett 14:43, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
Per "Across the Sea", Mother had "made it so", preventing one brother from being killed by the other. So the loophole the MiB found was that Jacob had to be killed by someone who was not him. But this still means Ben killed Jacob. -- Llywrch 16:41, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
OK clearly there's something relevant here, its just not worded right. He wasn't killed by fire, but his body was destroyed by fire. How about, "Jacob's body was turned to ashes by fire, and his ashes revived his physical being by being put in a fire, which caused Jacob to expire permanently when it went out"? --Jackdavinci 08:11, May 20, 2010 (UTC)
  • Fire and Ash have been "important" in the mythology of Lost, no doubt. My quibble was with saying Jacob was killed by fire in order to place it as juxtaposition in the literary techniques section of the article. Jacob was killed by a stab wound and his body was burned in a fire. Those ashes were required to resurrect Jacob for a short, as yet unknown, period of time. If there is another literary technique in that series of events, be my guest. More interesting to me is that Jacob was killed despite the fact that he "spoke first" when all similar attempts to kill the Man In Black have failed. Cabeckett 02:44, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
  • How dead was he? He could only be seen by candidates for instance. Dogen couldn't see him nor Richard. It has been assumed he was ghost until now when he said he would die.--Lucky Day | msg 22:07, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Not the liquid, but the incantation

Since this episode makes it clear that it's not the flask or the wine that allows a guardian to pass on her/his powers, but that Latin incantation, should we now create incantation & link to there instead of "Across the Sea" or "Bottle and cork"? That way we can discuss such things as how to translate the Latin more accurately, & possible allusions like a paraphrase of the Latin of the Catholic Mass. -- Llywrch 16:41, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

  • I'm not sure the epidode makes that clear at all. Jacob might have duped Jack into thinking he became the island's new protector by improvising a meaningless ceremony and giving him plain water. Jack is too eager to become the big cheese so Jacob humours him. Methinks the responsibility will fall on either one of the reluctant ones. Sawyer's got my vote, as he feels he needs to pay for killing Sun, jin and Frank.--SoNickPick 16:50, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • interesting idea! i thought it was interesting that he scooped up the water, chanted, then put the water back into the stream. significance? Dogandpanda 04:30, May 20, 2010 (UTC)
  • This is what I gathered: The water Jacob scoops up for Jack is connected to the glowing yellow cave/pool. Why not show the pool? Perhaps the production team saw the newly completely special effects from their last episode; I don't know. Now, while the liquid that Mother gives to Jacob is dark, it could've been wine mixed with the same "magic water" given to Jack. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jacknicholson (talkcontribs) 2010-05-19T12:07:36.
  • Do we know that it was the same incantation? I couldn't tell and the transcript is still being worked.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 20:47, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Any credence to the idea that when Jacob scooped up the water, he 'turned water into wine' for Jack to receive? PhillyPartTwo 16:34, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
  • Yep, its a clear allusion to the first miracle. I think the point of that was the rituals were symbolic. It mattered a lot less how it was done or even what is said, you just do it.--Lucky Day | msg 22:04, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
      • Do you think it literally turned in to wine? 01:26, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
  • The show isn't scripture if that's what you mean :). In scripture the governor of the feast complained they were holding out the good stuff, John 2:9,10.--Lucky Day | msg 04:03, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
  • I mean, Jacob drank wine from his FauxMother to take guardianship of the light, so did he, in his powers, turn the water literally in to wine so Jack could take the Oath of Office with wine too? PhillyPartTwo 13:49, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Ana Lucia

  • While it makes a lot of sense to bring back Ana Lucia (they needed someone from the inside to make the escape happen) what do you make of Desmond's comment when Hurley asks if she'll be along for the ride? "She's not ready yet" Do you think she will be before the end? --SoNickPick 16:43, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • Nah. Would Ana Lucia be ready for anything? Give her a gun and make her sit in a cornerFunkybassmannick 17:23, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • I think he meant that she hadn't flashed over to the other side yet. She helped them out not because she saw that it was for a good cause, but because she was getting paid off. He still has to show her what could have been. Uzerzero 20:18, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • I think she's not ready because they could only get the actress for a single episode. Basically a cameo without them having to worry about the implications for the finale.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  00:31, May 20, 2010 (UTC)
      • It's my theory (theory alone - not based on anything!) that she's David's father so maybe she will be at the concert also? It could be she "isn't ready" because she wasn't on the plane in this reality. --Integrated (User / Talk) 09:04, May 20, 2010 (UTC)
        • mother? --NandR|talk|contributions 12:10, May 20, 2010 (UTC)
          • Yes mother :P Sorry! --Integrated (User / Talk) 10:16, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
        • She isn't ready because she needs to change out of her uniform for the concert? Hilarical. Duncan905 19:16, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Article image

Died-for

1 (current image)

Candidates-wtdf

2

6x16-campfire-promo

3

The current article image is a bit too dark in my opinion, can't really see anything. #2 is one I like, don't have time to look for more so feel free to add any more potential images Phobia27 18:12, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

  • Not only is #2 dreary, miserable and not focused on the central point of the episode (let alone the whole series) but it also omits the last appearance of the driving force of the story for 5 years - Jacob. Let alone that the framing of the 4 on the beach is awful (they are set way back). The current image has drama and real significance. Yes it is dark, but it is dark times on the Island. Further with one click the fireside scene becomes a beautiful thing where everything can be seen.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   18:23, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

I agree that the current image is better. Also, awesome work on fixing up a difficult image to tweak, CK. —   lion of dharma    talk    email   18:28, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

  • The current image is really great!! It perfectly represents the episode I think since Jacob actually says "what they died for...". --Phryrosebdeco23 18:43, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting support Keep current image, number one. (Kdc2 18:57, May 19, 2010 (UTC))
  • Pictogram voting support The second one looks poor and doesn't sum up the episode well. Though...driving force of the story for 5 years? Really? More like 1 year, which then retconned him to be responsible for everything. --Golden Monkey 19:51, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting support Keep current image. Jacob may not have been the "driving force," but ever since we first heard of "Jacob's list" he has made a powerful impact on the plot.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 20:11, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Okay, guess I was the only person who thought it was too dark then. Phobia27 20:28, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • It's maybe too dark but I guess the episode revolved around 1) Jack 2) Ben 3) Desmond. No image has all three so secondary consideration is "What they died for" which would involve either Jacob around the campfire or else Jacob giving Jack communion. So if we don't have a relevant image of Jacob giving over his power to Jack, we should default to an image of Jacob at the campfire. --Jackdavinci 08:59, May 20, 2010 (UTC)
  • I feel like lately so many of the episode main images have spotlighted Jack, and the present image is a nice change from that. Also, the campfire scene is the one in which Jacob tells the 4 of them "what they died for." I really like the present image —   lion of dharma    talk    email   13:06, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

So I just ran into a promo picture (that I've posted here) that is almost the same as the current main image except that Jacob is sitting down, the characters are closer in the shot, and the picture is not as dark. I know some people frown upon using promo pictures as main images for episode articles, but I thought I'd throw it out there and see what people think of the idea. —   lion of dharma    talk    email   20:19, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

  • Pictogram voting support Nice!! I liked the current one just fine but this new one you've uploaded is better. Promo or not, it's awesome, and much better in terms of lightning - also, it really brings the "story being told around a campfire" element out more. I vote to go for this one. Just my 2cents.... --Jonahwriter 21:43, May 20, 2010 (UTC)
  • I would prefer to use a screen grab rather than a promo - but I don't object in principle to a promo. This one is quite good. I do prefer the shot of Jacob standing and I like it that he is entirely in shadow - given that he is about to disappear forever. I don't see any improvements with the losties. As to lighting I can achieve the same lighting (or very similar) with our screen grab, and a crop is all that is needed to make them all bigger. I didn't do any of that because, I like to see that this is a show about the Island too - that it surrounds them and that it is an important feature.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   03:04, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
  • The theme is right but the lighting is just way too dark.--Lucky Day | msg 04:07, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting support this one looks all around better and provides the same effect, imho Dogandpanda 04:20, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Blooper Discussion

Production Staff Blooper

The article says that in the beginning of the episode as Hurley walks through the jungle you see one of the production staff in the woods. I would need to rewatch to be sure, but I think this may just be Jack or Sawyer walking some distance away, as the group was spread out looking for Desmond’s well. I specifically remember the scene opened on Jack and Sawyer, and it was Hurley and Kate who could be seen in the background, and I thought to myself that someone could mistake them for production staff. Can anyone confirm this?Sithboy 18:39, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

  • I thought I saw that too, but then Kate and Jack walked out so thought it was them. Though the people really did not look like they belonged in the shot, because one was hunched over as to move out of the scene. Not 100% on this, but I did notice something that didn't look right about people we didn't know in the scene, but thought they may have left in in since Jack and Kate walked out later, and I thought to myself, "I guess it was them, but it sure didn't look like 'em". lol Iamlost23 20:37, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • I'll have to look again, then, unless someone else makes sure. Allowing a production staffer to appear in a shot seems like a pretty horrific mistake to make, far worse than getting a date wrong on an ID or something like that.Sithboy 20:51, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • I rewatched, the scene opens with Jack and Sawyer and you can get glimpses of Kate and Hurley behind, here is an image of what looks like Kate in background (not a great image, just a screenshot!) Also the wording could be changed at least as it's halfway through the episode!
    Production staff or kate?
    --Lizziejj 23:37, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • I rewatched too. I don't see anything. When we are with Jack and Sawyer you briefly see Hurley and Kate traipsing along behind but that's it. Later with hurley and Kate it's all clear. I'm removing it - get to work - no bloopers as of now!    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   02:55, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

Jack looking at the camera blooper

I don't know why that blooper was deleted, it seems pretty legit and funny if you ask me, seriously watch the episode, he clearly watches at the camera for a few seconds. I'm going to add it again, please if you delete it, leave your reasons here.--Logan mac 14:17, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

  • fwiw, in the Black Rock scene in "Dr. Linus" after Jack says "Wanna try another stick?" there's a quick beat where Richard blinks away from looking at Jack & looks right at the camera. Duncan905 19:25, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
    • ^mmm...I rewatched that scene and Richard didn't look at the camera =/ Logan mac 23:45, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Not a blooper?

"Miles mentioned he lived in the barracks "30 years" before Ben did, but he knows even when he was a baby the teenage Ben Linus lived in the barracks as well. This is because he saw both young Ben and his past self while living in Dharmaville in the '70s. " I thought he said '30 years ago', not '30 years before you', so he's accurate and it's not a blooper. If anyone can confirm, please note and remove. Jbillones 19:15, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

  • Pictogram voting supportEither comment is enough for me to say its not a blooper. Miles said what he said and I think everyone knows what he was saying.--Lucky Day | msg 21:57, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
  • The weirdest part here was that Ben was in no way surprised that Miles was actually a time traveller and worked at security in DHARMA when he was a kid.. that's not a revelation to him? Or did he just think Miles was being silly and ignored him.?--Integrated (User / Talk) 10:18, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Jack's Cup?

  • Did anyone catch if he picked it up somewhere earlier on in the season? That would be really cool/good writing.Funkybassmannick 17:23, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • Jack's (new) backpack apparently washed up on the beach they were on, as all four Losties had nothing but themselves when escaping from the submarine. So it would just be coincidental if there was a cup in the backpack Jack had. Phobia27 17:58, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
      • On the Geronimo Jack's Beard podcast they confirmed that there was a scene earlier in the episode where he got the cup at the beach however this was cut for time reasons. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lizziejj (talkcontribs) 2010-05-19T15:13:25.

Bleed-Through from FST to OT

Ep6x16-FSTBensBruise

Alternate Ben's black eye

Ep6x16BensBruise

OT Ben's black eye

Did anybody notice that after Ben got smacked up by Desmond in the FST, his bruise appeared in the OT? I don't remember if OT Ben got the bruise previously in The Candidate or something, but the two bruises look almost identical. Could this have been a bleed-through from the FST to the OT? We've mostly seen the opposite, so I think it's something worth noting if it is true.Uzerzero 20:46, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

I think what really happened was that during filming, Henry Ian Cusick accidentally gave Michael Emerson a black eye by hitting him with a punch from early on in the episode. But now that I think of it they use make-up... so it's possible. (Kdc2 22:50, May 19, 2010 (UTC))
Yes, Henry Ian Cusick was the guest on this week's GJB podcast and said that he accidentally hit Emerson once during filming the beating scene at the school. The black eye wasn't makeup added for island-Ben. Rawr? 23:00, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Desmond's pocket

Removed - that he has something in his right pants pocket when taken to the cell. His pocket is flat. The material at the top of the pocket has a fold or a kink at the opening often seen in poorly cut slacks or new slacks or where they are too small.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   03:14, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Richard burying Alex

I found this kinda strange that Richard buried Alex, didn't the others have a nice death ritual that they did, seen in season 3? There was no marker (that I could see) or anything of where she was placed. I just found this weird.--Phryrosebdeco23 19:01, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

  • Ben's thank you seemed kind of "restrained." I've had this idea that the Others buried at sea to preclude MiB being able to use the shape. If so and if Richard had burned Alex's body, then MiB could never have taken her form and ordered Ben to obey "John Locke."--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 19:53, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • I agree to a point, but also they left a whole heck of a lot of Dharma folk in a pit too. Why? Iamlost23 20:39, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
      • Well, if MiB appeared to any of the Others as Dharma personnel, they'd know immediately that it was Him, so why would He bother? Better to use someone like Alex who would have a heavy emotional influence over Ben. Certainly Ben knew that was MiB also, in any case.Sithboy 20:54, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • That's one of the reasons my "formal theory" is sitting in one of my sandboxes. There's also the three GIs that someone buried back around the time of "Jughead." I suspect it's one of things we're not going to get an answer for. <shrug> --Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 20:59, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Regardless, it was a great plot tool to motivate Ben to do an about face. Him twisting around so much would have made a lot less sense. Alex was what he was emotionally invested in , and he exploited himself with it. There was a comment on Jose Garcia's Geronimo blog where fans are irate that the writers said that Ben could have cared less about a funeral for Juliet - it was all about Alex.--Lucky Day | msg 23:26, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Aaron and Walt

A funny thing is that Aaron and Walt are not special (only) by themselves, they are special because they bring a meaning to Claire's and Michael's lives. They would be lost without these kids and consequently prone to be the next Jacob.--Tflrntn 00:02, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

  • Yea, for all the hype they tried to build up in Season 1&2, Walt was a nobody in the big picture. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pottswanna (talkcontribs) 2010-05-19T22:54:30.
  • That is a REALLY good point, they made this BIG deal about Walt, and now he is "too old" to portray his character anymore. I definately think that besides Claire's obsession with him in the OT, we are done seeing anything important with him. He's so gosh darn cute little Aaron! --Phryrosebdeco23 04:13, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
  • Yep - I mentioned this about two weeks ago. This goes along with all the ideas of the purpose of children and the whole pregnancy/Juliet/Claire/Sun story arc. I expected we'd see some sort of Messiah, ala V, when the one who could be born get's born. The only one that was born on the Island that seemed to be conceived there was Nathan, the first Other we'd seen and the rival of Ben for creepiness. Everyone else was conceived off of the Island or born off of it - ie Aaron and Ji Yeon respectively. At least we now know why Walt, Zach and Emma were taken by the Others now: because children are the one people Ben is willing to protect, and it may have something to do with how he was treated as a child.--Lucky Day | msg 23:22, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
    • Ethan was born on the island, not Nathan. Nathan was a survivor from the tail section on Oceanic flight 815 and was killed by Goodwin.--Jumpnbounce 21:51, February 5, 2011 (UTC)

Production Notes

Widmore's Whispering

Has anybody been able to amplify the whispering to see whether it matches what the MiB claimed? --Awolbach 01:14, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

It sounded just like generic whisper sound effect- doubt he actually said anything.

Jacob's "prayer"

When Jacob is putting water in the cup for Jack, he is saying some sort of prayer. Could you make out any words of this? Any idea of what he says? --Kakao 08:29, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

  • We can't seem to get any confirmation on what was from last week's episode either. It did sound like Latin though?--Lucky Day | msg 21:56, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
    • I have included a rough translation of the Latin chanting in the transcript. It seems to be same as the one in ATS.Logan mac 23:54, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
    • "JACOB: [chanting in Latin] Nam non accipimus hoc quasi vulgarem potionem, sed ut ille sit quasi unus mecum (Because we don't accept this as a simple potion, but so that he shall be as one with me) [washes his hand in the stream and gives Jack water in the cup] " I'm going to add this to trivia.--Lucky Day | msg 04:23, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
    • I can confirm (personally) that the Latin from Across the Sea is "Nam non accipimus hoc quasi vulgarem potionem, sed ut ille sit quasi unus mecum." However, I cannot tell if this is the same in this episode. The running water makes it difficult to hear. Also, I would use the same translation from Across the Sea if it's going to be added to the trivia section for this episode. Uzerzero 05:27, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Mysterious boy is Jacob?

I notice now that mysterious boy, even from the earlier episodes of the season, redirects to Jacob's page whereas before he had his own page. Is it 100% the same actor as who played young Jacob in Across the Water, who played the boy in The Substitute etc ? --Integrated (User / Talk) 15:01, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

  • All the same - all a young Jacob (Kenton Duty), terrific likeness too. He just did a big grow between his first acting call and his next one. Be shaving soon. (and it's "Across the Sea") Just a last mystery is why Locke saw/imagined him with bloody arms?    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   15:34, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

Pictogram voting support Integrate it, I think with the information from Across the Sea, it is Jacob. --Phryrosebdeco23 04:16, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Where did Miles go?

Or a better question, why didn't Widmore and Zoe go with him? At first I thought they were escaping with Miles through the tunnels at the back of the closet. So it surprised me that they were there. I missed something in all that.--Lucky Day | msg 23:12, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

  • Miles ran off into the jungle. I figure the reason Widmore didn't go-- be it through the jungle or the smokey tunnels (remember Dead is Dead)-- if the smoke monster wants to get you, he'll get you. Plus, Widmore was hoping on Ben and Richard. --Jacknicholson 05:31, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Ms. Klugh's List

Did anybody else notice that the final four candidates (Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sawyer) were the same ones found on the list Bea Klugh gives Michael back in Three Minutes? I thought this was kind of interesting that as far back as season 2, Jacob knew who the final four were going to be and did what he could to protect them. Uzerzero 06:05, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

  • but didn't tom say jack "wasn't even on jacob's list"? Dogandpanda 17:44, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
    • It is revealed in the opening scene of "A Tale of Two Cities" that Ethan and Goodwin were to assemble lists of the survivors for the others to kidnap and recruit. Since Ethan's list was incomplete due to being found out, he probably never wrote Jack's name. Ben later told Tom and the others about Jack's significance but didn't add it to Ethan's list. It is also likely that Tom, as he was not shown in the opening scene, was not present when Ethan was sent off, so Ben probably lied and told him the list was from Jacob.--Jumpnbounce 21:57, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
      • BTW, it wasn't Tom who said he wasn't on Jacob's list. It was Danny Pickett.--Baker1000 00:22, February 6, 2011 (UTC)
        • Danny wasn't there either, so it's still possible--Jumpnbounce 08:28, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

Ad blocker interference detected!


Wikia is a free-to-use site that makes money from advertising. We have a modified experience for viewers using ad blockers

Wikia is not accessible if you’ve made further modifications. Remove the custom ad blocker rule(s) and the page will load as expected.