Talk:Weapons

From Lostpedia

Contents 1 Writing guidance for ammo 2 General 3 Michael & "his" Mosin-Nagant 4 Trace the guns 5 New Gun count from 3 Minutes 6 Luger 7 AK47 vs. AKM 8 No Sigma. 9 Finale 10 Locke's home made flame thrower 11 News guns from I Do 12 East bloc weapons 13 Mikhail Bakunin's Gun 14 Gas Cansiter from Left behind 15 The Looking Glass 16 Dharma Mass Grave 17 Contradictions from Through the Looking Glass 18 Semi-random questions and thoughts 19 At least one new rifle comes up in season four 20 Fanvid 21 Split Up? 22 Current Guns 23 Standardization 24 Zappers

Writing guidance for ammo

Just some general FYI on proper terminology when writing about firearms:

• A bullet is the solid piece of metal that injures or kills.
• A bullet goes into the cartridge case or casing, which also contains the gunpowder and primer.
• A cartridge is a round of ammunition (i.e., round), and is the combination of a bullet, cartridge case, gunpowder, and primer.
• A cartridge or round goes into a magazine, the generally box-shaped storage and feeding container that is usually external to the firearm.
• A clip also holds bullets, and is usually used to load a magazine quickly, as opposed to manually inserting each round.
  • As an exception, the magazine of older weapons, such as the M1 (Garand), was usually a part of the weapon. The clip was inserted into the magazine and, after all the rounds had been expended, ejected and discarded, especially when under fire.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 13:03, 1 July 2008 (PDT)

So bullet --> cartridge --> (optionally clip -->) magazine --> firearm.

In terms of episode narrations:

• If someone is shot, you say they were hit by a bullet
• If someone is manually loading a revolver, you say he loaded a cartridge or round
• If someone picks up the little metal tubes off the ground after firing a gun, those are the cases or casings
• If someone inserts or ejects the long, black, metal box from the bottom of a semi-auto pistol, that is the magazine
• And you most likely won't see anyone actually use a clip on TV, as slapping the magazine into the gun what's used in the majority of scenes for dramatic effect

Kevrock 16:02, 22 May 2008 (PDT)

General

I like the HL ref. :) --skks 10:26, 29 April 2006 (PDT)

Edward Mars' sidearm seems to be a SIG Sauer P228, which is strange because the US Marshals service uses a Glock 19 as it's service pistol, however this is probably an error from the production team, and not a typical Lost mystery. --skks 18:16, 29 April 2006 (PDT)

Just the one he was carrying or the ones in the Halliburton as well? If the former, maybe it's just a matter of personal preference.--Tricksterson 13:38, 1 May 2006 (PDT)

I think I saw atleast one Glock in the halliburton, but without any good screencaps I can't verify the model. In any case, the Halliburton wasn't opened in the pilot and Sawyer shot the polar bear with a SIG P228 which he got from Mars' holster or whatever. If Mars is acting officially as a US Marshal, he can only carry weapons that US Marshals can carry - which is the Glock 19. If he's carrying something else while being on duty, he can be reprimanded and possibly discharged from the US Marshals Service. If I remember correctly, SIG P228 is the Federal Sky Marshal's issue sidearm. So either the production team got those mixed up or he wasn't on duty, which would also mean he abused his powers and probably would get discharged upon returning... but like I said, I don't think this is significant, and I would go with the error. --skks 11:44, 2 May 2006 (PDT)

Michael & "his" Mosin-Nagant

According to the upcoming episode trailer, Michael was captured by The Others and I did assume they take his rifle also while adding that to the article, but in the sense of consistency - we can add that when we know for sure, which is in a few days. --skks 11:44, 2 May 2006 (PDT)

Trace the guns

I think we should trace particular guns through the series. For instance: Jack gave Sawyer a gun before the raft left. Sawyer tried to use it against the others but got shot. Sawyer shot the shark with the gun. Sayer said he would use it against "Shaft" (Mr Eko) Ana-Lucia took the gun. (One bullet left) Ana-Lucia shot Shannon with the gun. (Chamber empty) Ana-Lucia offered the gun to Sayid. Sayid took the gun.

Tracing guns & bullets would work only for the handguns that were gotten outside the hatch as we don't know the number of them and they use specific types of ammo that won't fit anything else on the island. Tracing bullets (no pun intended) from the halliburton will be also difficult as there were atleast two boxes of 9mm(?) ammo with an unknown number of rounds in them. It would be a reasonable assumption that they all use the same ammo. If I remember correctly, there are four modern handguns in the "market" from which an unknown number has been "donated" to the others. First part would naturally be identifying the guns in question which i could do if i could be bothered to dig up and go through my lost discs (pun intended) or if someone had good enough screencaps. --skks 05:12, 9 May 2006 (PDT)

Due to used weapons, mainly pistols used changing between episodes. This tracing idea has gotten a lot more difficult. I suppose the production team didn't expect the average gun nut to follow the show. Pity. --skks 10:47, 19 May 2006 (PDT)

New Gun count from 3 Minutes

In 3 minutes Sawyer claims there are 11 guns total, and that 5 were taken by The Others.

• 6 pistols- Marshalls, four in his case, and the drug smuggler's.
• 5 taken by others.
• 2 taken by Michael. (Shotgun and a pistol)

That means there were apparently originally 12 guns in the armory. (Not counting any Desmond took, not sure if that number is verifiable.)

I do like the gun-tracing idea, maybe I'll begin it--Piscez 03:09, 18 May 2006 (PDT)

Michael donated the mosin nagant (semi-automatic rifle) and a H&K USP Tactical (pistol, prolly from Mars' case). 11 sounds like the number they have now, as the initial hatch collection contained more than that. The others had atleast two WW2 era rifles (probably MAS-36). There was a lot of "gun-frames" in Three Minutes - and I will check them properly before adding to the article. I seriously doubt that the smugglers had a Glock 18, it was probably was a glock but probably not 18 as it's select fire and there was no switch on the slide. Work in progress... --skks 04:38, 18 May 2006 (PDT)

After careful frame-by-frame analysation, I'm now convinced that Michael didn't have a Mosin-Nagant. Naturally this idea came from me orginally, mostly due to the "bolt"-action quality of the weapon and it also fit the USSR theory better. I'm fairly sure it's a Remington 11-87 self-loading shotgun (not pump), however this model shotgun wasn't produced until after 1987 so it might be another "washing machine". --skks 06:37, 18 May 2006 (PDT)

I thought only three guns were handed over in The Hunting Party -- Jack's, Sawyer's, and Locke's. Then the one confiscated from Michael, and the one Michael gave to Henry Gale. That makes five. --Amberjet11 13:06, 23 May 2006 (PDT)

In The Hunting Party Jack had an AKM, Locke & Sawyer had two pistols each - five total. The screencap on the page, albeit from Three Minutes confirms this. --skks 06:20, 24 May 2006 (PDT)

Luger

the luger was being carried by Pickett, not Mr. Friendly can anyone confirm - Mikey 18:27, 18 May 2006 (PDT)

In the Hunting Party it was carried by Mr. Friendly, he threatened Kate with it. In Three Minutes the luger was used by Pickett.--skks 10:47, 19 May 2006 (PDT)

Maybe it is no Luger but an other old fashioned pistol that does just looks like. I mean, WHY should they have a WWII Luger from the Nazis? The weapons come mostly from the eastern block, don't they? And, maybe everything on the Island IS old, but WWII old? It began everything in the sixties, right? --muellcraft

It's a Luger, first look at it at Hunting Party, I thought it could be a Walther P38 or even a Nambu14, but a careful inspection of the cocking mechanism makes it a definite luger. Despite what you might think, there are no two different model pistols (clones aside) that look exactly alike. The luger as itself has little to do with the nazis, it was used as a service weapon in the German army in both WWI and WWII, althought during the later years of WWII it was only used by officers and soldiers with long careers. A lot of allied WWII veterans took lugers as wartrophies during the war, this particular luger could have been one of them, or not, who knows. I really don't see the question here so I'm replying with a question myself, why not? --skks 04:51, 19 May 2006 (PDT)

If you read Alvar Hanso's biography on the Hanso Foundation website, if it's still up there, it clearly states that he made his fortune in munitions and supplied weapons to WWII resistance groups. That might provide some clue as to why there's a WWII gun (luger) on the island. --HypnoSynthesis 11:30, 4 February 2007 (PST)

AK47 vs. AKM

Despite what popular media leads you to believe, AK47 isn't the most used assault rifle in the world, AKM is. AKM is a modernized version of AK47 which has been manufactured mainly in the "golden years" of Cold War, from 1955 to 1974 until it was gradually replaced by AK74. The outside differences between AK47 and AKM are very subtle but visible to the trained eye. Before Three Minutes AKMs being on the show was mainly an assumption due to the logistics of things, but after a good shot of Sawyer's stash and the casing ejection system - it's now sure that AKM was the assault weapon of choice for DHARMA. The hatch also has AKMS rifles that are "paratrooper" versions of AKM with folding butts. --skks 13:14, 19 May 2006 (PDT)

No Sigma.

[1]

That's a Beretta.

[2]

That be a Sigma. Notice the trigger guard and the tip of the slide not resembling the Sigma but strongly resembling the Beretta. Joffeloff 11:15, 24 May 2006 (PDT)

Finale

Okay, what's with the 'out of the blue' guns in the finale? Jack hands out nickel-plated purse guns that don't resemble anything seen in the Halliburton case or the gun vault. Obviously the producers don't care about gun consistency, they probably see it as trivial, but I sure as hell find it annoying. Now what? Tracking them becomes impossible. Joffeloff 15:57, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

This article also is beginning to lose it's function, instead of the drastic measure of removing the whole bloody thing I'm thinking of changing the article to be more generic (lose the weapon models & numbers of them) - there's no point to track anything as everything keeps changing. Any objections? --skks 07:03, 28 May 2006 (PDT)

Guess I never got around to do that, seems fine enough now. --skks 05:04, 29 August 2006 (PDT)

leave them it helps place where and when they were last used and by who. It would be interesting to see which are the good guys guns and which are the bad guys and compare it popular culture's opinion

Hi guys, just registered in lostpedia. Keep up the good work!. So, I read in this article: "At least two Makarov PM pistol (USSR, 1947-49)" The Makarov from the last episode Image link is mod. Makarov cal. 9x14 made in Bulgaria, in "Arsenal", Kazanlak. I found an original picture original image. I am not sure, it's absolutely the same, but it looks the same. That "AD 35" - "35" means (from makarov.com) 1995 year of production. I also don't know how important is, but i saw this little connection between the movie and my country and wanted to share with you.. Thats the first think, that i write here, so dont be evil if i am wrong where wrote it :)--Zippo 11:32, 28 May 2006 (PDT)

Locke's home made flame thrower

Should fire be added as a weapon? As Locke used his torch and an aerosol to combat the Polar Bear in Further Instructions.

That depends...when else was fire used as a weapon? Maybe it could just be filed under "self-constructed." --Amberjet11 14:14, 29 October 2006 (PST)

News guns from I Do

Can someone state the guns Kack finds in I Do? -- 18:14, 10 November 2006 (PST) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Magioladitis (talk • contribs) .

East bloc weapons

I think that it is not all that unsual that hanso would have these weapons, so I am adding a little clarication, with a cited source. Black

Mikhail Bakunin's Gun

Someone posted that our Russian friend was using a Mosin-Nagant bolt action rifle during the preview, but after watching the episode, it it clearly a German Karabiner 98k, as you can tell from the ghost ring sight, and the cleaning rod under the muzzle.

--No, absolutely the contrary. It's a Mosin - look at world.guns.ru for both Mosin-Nagant and Mauser K98k. It's Mosin that has a cleaning rod sticking out (both rifles have ghost ring sights), plus, the K98 has a wide metal band holding the stock parts together near the muzzle end, while on Mosin, it's some five times smaller. Also, if you look at the screencaps at Lost-Media, there's at least one shot where the trigger guard and part of the front grip are outlined against Mikhail's shirt. There's something that goes flush from the bottom of the triggerguard to the front part of the stock - and that's the element that clearly proves it's a Mosin - the magazine. --Mike West 16:14, 30 April 2007 (PDT)

Gas Cansiter from Left behind

The ALSG272 can cause unconsciousness if used in poorly ventilated rooms, such as where Kate was being held captive. It also causes involuntary closing of the eyes. So the effects are clearly correct to a point.chrisarrow

The Looking Glass

'Bonnie' had a M92FS, 'Greta' had a M1 Carbine. http://lostpedia.com/wiki/User:T-rav25

Should there also be mention of the harpoon/spear gun? It was used as a weapon.(Myscrnnm 22:15, 31 May 2007 (PDT))

Dharma Mass Grave

Locke found a Smith and Wesson K-frame revolver, I can't tell which model, I can't get clear enough screen shots. http://lostpedia.com/wiki/User:T-rav25

Contradictions from Through the Looking Glass

In Greatest Hits and Through the Looking Glass, we're told that the castaways had only one remaining rifle with ammunition; the other two shooters were forced to borrow weapons from Danielle and Karl. Those three were their ONLY functional firearms; the rest presumably having been confiscated over time by each encounter with the Others. The theory that Sawyer had a hidden cache of additional guns is disproven, since he would have retrieved them with Juliet for the rescue on the beach if such a cache actually existed. We can only assume that Kate, Sayid, and Locke's packs were completely loaded with weaponry one their mission to the Barracks. -Westacular 15:03, 2 June 2007 (PDT)

Semi-random questions and thoughts

• Has anyone tried to categorize the weapons by the ammo they use?
• Most pistols seem to be available in 9x*19 Luger Parabellum if Battle Royale is any indication. I think the same applies here, with a few exceptions such as the Walther PPK.
• Assuming that there is a shortage of weapon maintaining facilities in the island, and seeing how many weapons are actually used there, isn't it a bit surprising to see so many pistols and so hardly any revolver in the island? Aren't revolvers easier to maintain and generally more reliable? I have a vague feeling that may be a goal of supplying pistols instead of revolvers to the various islanders, perhaps as part of some sort of military training procedure.
• If I am not mistaken, sixteen years seems way too long a time for Danielle's rifle's ammo to remain in working shape. Maybe she raids the Others' shipments occasionally.

Luis Dantas 17:52, 24 July 2007 (PDT)

At least one new rifle comes up in season four

In the preview for season four, you can see Sawyer holding a FN FAL rifle - where does it come from, I don't know. Maybe Others have another stash. --Mike West 07:53, 2 January 2008 (PST)

It popped out of nowhere, just like we're used to.

I think this section has served its purpose, the crew doesn't care about consistency, it seems. Funny how they manage to sneak in all those anagrams and numbers yet not exert any effort on this. --Joffeloff 05:39, 1 February 2008 (PST)

Didn't he get it off Ben, along with a shotgun at some point in that altercation? Definitely looks like an FN FAL. DublinDilettante 17:18, 4 May 2008 (PDT)

Fanvid

Split Up?

Grenades and guns are two separate things, and I feel there is enough sufficient information to split the guns and grenades into two separate articles. Thoughts? -- Sam McPherson  T  C  E  11:26, 20 June 2008 (PDT)

Disagree. Guns, grenades, knifes, etc. are all weapons, they just harm or kill in different manners. So yes, literally they are different things, but they're still all weapons. When I rewrote this article, I put into the intro line that this article was to serve as a catalog of significant weapons in the show. That verbiage was chosen carefully for two reasons: 1, its a catalog in the sense it isn't providing analysis or narrative on the weapon, rather it's just a list of the weapons and maybe a brief blurb about them; 2, by mentioning the significance, it partially eliminates the need for obsessively tracking every single weapon ever seen on the show, even by a background character. The first part was done intentionally because the narrative about how the weapon was used should be contained in the episode/character article. There's no sense in rehashing everything that lead to one character harming another. The second part was done intentionally because now, as opposed to when the show started, there's a hell of a lot more weapons on the Island. When it was just the contents of the Halliburton case and who controlled the guns was a major plot point, it was a manageable task to track them all. Now, its almost notable when a character doesn't have a gun on them. And that difference, somewhere around Season 3, is where I think the article lost focus and was out of date as far as tracking the guns. So I think it's fine in it's current state.  Kevrock   talk  contribs   12:11, 20 June 2008 (PDT)

Current Guns

Ok so as of There's No Place Like Home, Parts 2 & 3, how many guns do our losties have on the island. --LostCloverfield42 20:55, 28 June 2008 (PDT)

Check out the response I wrote directly above this. I think we are past being able to do that.  Kevrock   talk  contribs   09:03, 30 June 2008 (PDT)

Standardization

Considering the financial assets available to them, why haven't the Others standardized their arsenal? Having to stock parts and ammunition for the galaxy of weapons we've seen is an armorer's nightmare.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 11:55, 1 July 2008 (PDT)

I don't think the production crew put that much thought into it.  Kevrock   talk  contribs   11:59, 1 July 2008 (PDT)

Yeah, I guess it was really a question of "Why didn't the producers ensure...." I read once that, prior to WW II, a movie could portray an air journey and use three different airplanes taking off, traveling and landing and no one would notice. We're in a post- "Saving Private Ryan" / "Band of Brothers" / "Blackhawk Down" world.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 13:36, 1 July 2008 (PDT)

Well, perhaps they accumulated the weapons from different sources over time, explaining the variety. The Dharma Initiative had a supply of their own, of course. The Others traveling to and from the outside world might have acquired a few at a time. However, the gun locker in The Hydra station does show several guns of the same type - it has several SKSs stacked up as well as what seem to be several P38 pistols laid out. Jack finds it open, enters and loads a P38, and uses it to confront Ben. Twalls 23:15, 10 August 2008 (PDT)

What gaarmyvet meant was having such a wide and varied assortment of weapons would make it incredibly challenging, if not impossible, to maintain. The weapons on the show run the entire spectrum of ages, caliber, firing mechanism, etc. While I do agree with Twalls, that yes, in the context of the show they probably just collected them over time, gaarmyvet is right from a practical, realistic aspect it is not legitimate.  Kevrock   talk  contribs   12:25, 13 August 2008 (PDT)

Zappers

The Others weapons on the page lists stun darts and tasers. Shouldn't these be combined into a single listing/page. The weapon acts as a stun gun, and also fires the little stun darts. Sawyer calls them Zappers in S3 and S5, and also they are called that in one of the official podcasts. --Hugo815 02:40, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

• Wow, its been a while since I had to write in this article. The answer to your question is in the article on Stun darts: "However, a notable difference between the Others' darts and Taser weapons from 2004 is that Taser dart was connected by wire to its firing weapon to deliver its charge. The Others' darts apparently have built-in electrical devices that deliver their charge upon impact."  Kevrock   talk  contribs   18:37, 15 May 2009 (UTC)