Contents 1 Typo 2 Centric 3 Press Release 4 header Information 5 Sam? 6 badly done 7 "You look just like her" 8 The Man On The Boat 9 Plot Twists in Episode 10 BASE jumping 11 Valve? 12 Daniel's Map 13 The Numbers References 14 Harper's disappearance 15 Henry Gale's Balloon and Boat Race 16 Ratings 17 Timeline Thoughts and Analysis for this Episode... 18 the list and the kids 19 too much quoting 20 the whole valve code 21 Dollar Bill 22 Cultural Reference to King David 23 clarifications 24 Unaswered Questions removal 25 Recurring themes error? 26 The Harper Blooper ? 27 Horseshoe 28 removal of unanswered question 29 The Temptest 30 Flash Back/On Island 31 Is this really the fourth episode that takes place completely on the island? 32 Unanswered Questions revisited 33 Easter egg? 34 Main Image change 34.1 Other image choices 35 Locke's group's body count

Typo

Typo - shouldn't it say "sixth episode"? Fat Burger 22:00, 8 February 2008 (PST)

• They copy+pasted the info from ep 5 and just changes the ep's name - date and number are the same:)--Avudim 04:21, 9 February 2008 (PST)

Centric

The Other Woman is a Juliet-centric episode.--Mikexchanger 09:14, 13 February 2008 (GMT)

This information isn't posted on the article/talk pages until after the episode airs as it is considered a spoiler. This information (as well as the centric characters up until episode 8) is already on the season 4 spoilers page. Jimbo the tubby 09:14, 13 February 2008 (PST)

Press Release

From ABC Medianet:

JULIET IS PAID AN UNWELCOME VISIT BY SOMEONE FROM HER PAST AND ORDERED TO TRACK DOWN AND STOP CHARLOTTE AND FARADAY FROM COMPLETING THEIR MISSION, ON ABC'S "LOST"

"The Other Woman" - Juliet receives an unwelcome visit from someone from her past and is given orders to track down Charlotte and Faraday in order to stop them from completing their mission -- by any means necessary. Meanwhile, Ben offers Locke an enticing deal, on "Lost," THURSDAY, MARCH 6 (9:00-10:02 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.

"Lost" stars Naveen Andrews as Sayid, Henry Ian Cusick as Desmond, Emilie de Ravin as Claire, Michael Emerson as Ben, Matthew Fox as Jack, Jorge Garcia as Hurley, Josh Holloway as Sawyer, Daniel Dae Kim as Jin, Yunjin Kim as Sun, Evangeline Lilly as Kate, Elizabeth Mitchell as Juliet, Terry O'Quinn as Locke and Harold Perrineau as Michael.

Guest starring are Jeremy Davies as Daniel Faraday, Rebecca Mader as Charlotte, Alan Dale as Charles Widmore, Andrea Roth as Harper, M.C. Gainey as Mr. Friendly/Tom and Brett Cullen as Goodwin.

"The Other Woman" was written by Drew Goddard & Christina M. Kim and directed by Eric Laneuville.

--Avudim 13:10, 15 February 2008 (PST)

Normally I try not to read the cast list (I always fail), but I'm thrilled with this one. M.C. Gainey's back! --Chester Kilburn Talk | Contributions 09:54, 17 February 2008 (PST)

header Information

Someone with formatting skillz needs to change the episode link template to show that Juliet is the flashback character, and also to change the information on the Season Four article. I have no idea how to do either of thse things and i really don't have the spare time. Billytrousers 19:14, 6 March 2008 (PST)

Sam?

When I first watched, I thought the man being beaten by Widmore was Sam Thomas of Find 815. I thought the hair looked like his. I'll double check on Tivo later.--Theslate 19:17, 6 March 2008 (PST)

Guess not.--Theslate 04:00, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Could it be the Desmond of the past? (totally dressed the part) -- what is "our men on the outside" are characters who have achieved their "constant". (what if Juliet is Ben's Constant! *gasp*) --PMcgrath 12:37, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Froglars 23:23, 6 March 2008 (PST)

badly done

That was really badly written. Michael Emerson gives all those interviews last fall talking about respecting his character and not making it "arch"....and then we get mostache twirling over the dead body of goodwin. After after all the things they set up in Juliet's backstory last season, they have her showing up for dinner with ben as if nothing has happened. And they abandon everything they might have done in terms of Goodwin's interest in Ana Lucia in favor of a new disposable ex-wife character. Dharmatel4 19:49, 6 March 2008 (PST)

The dinner takes place before the events detailed in the last season. Ben was not moustache-twirling. What possible good would a love story between Goodwin and Ana Lucia do anyone?

Some of Ben's lines were hilarious though. Ben does some pretty insane things but given his diabolical nature and his rather traumatic childhood, I think it's understandable that he's a little off balance. Generally speaking, I thought this episode provided some nice comic relief. Except for the poison gas. And Goodwin's corpse. --Beardedjack 19:56, 6 March 2008 (PST)

You're a moron. This episode was amazing. I'm sorry if you can't see that. dposse 05:14, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Is the name calling really necessary? This one definitely seems to be getting a very wide range of responses from fans, some love it, some think it's the worst of the season. I thought it was good but not great. --Minderbinder 11:48, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Very informative, but lacking. Eggtown still reigns supreme as the least entertaining episode of the season (as with all Kate-centric eps in their respective seasons). Anyone else not liking the "the freighties are good, no wait bad, nope good" thing? I felt from day one that Charlotte was diabolical in some way but that Daniel was generally a good person. Then when Charlotte interacted with Daniel in the past few eps I thought maybe she just seemed bad because she was captured by Locke. Now it's like "why the heck didn't she just tell Kate she was saving everyone's lives?" Also, from the spoilers and the interviews, especially with Michael Emmerson, it seems like Ben's going to be right and the boat people will be evil and Ben will be viewed as the hero. But then we keep seeing that the helicopter people that Ben so badly wants to kill are good but their boss is evil (we now know who it is! woohoo!) and Ben is still kind of an a--hole. --macosx 15:35, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I totally agree with you, they are doing the same thing with Ben, making us think he's good, then that he's evil. Frankly i'm getting sick of this game the writers are playing with us, we have reached the point where it renders the character's words usless. It's not entertaining, it's just annoying. (they've done the same thing with Alias, where they had the "big boss" that was mainly evil, but from time to time came to the rescue, and then went back to he's evil ways. it was the same with the main character's mother, and then a cliffhanger that had the viewer believe her boyfriend was evil, in the last few episodes). If any of the writers read lp, please stop this! --CharlieReborn 18:50, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I think it's good that we're going back and forth between who's good and who's bad. I think that makes it more realistic. It's not black and white, good vs. bad where the bad guys are the ones with beady eyes and wearing the dark cloaks and the good people are always good. It's a lot more like real life this way. Sometimes we might think Ben isn't such a bad guy...but then we remember everything he's done and how little we can trust him. Then we realize that we really can't take his word that the freighters are bad. And of course Ben is going to do some things that make him look good. That's how he manipulates people. Then the freighters were employed by Widmore. We don't trust Widmore, so we don't trust what they're there to do. But why should that make them bad? They're just doing a job that sounds good to them. And why should they trust the Losties? They're on a high-priority mission. Why should they trust this group of people they just met with their secrets? Especially when they know stuff like Kate's past. Lindsaynickel 03:25, 10 March 2008 (PDT)

I agree that the episode was lacking in a few ways. Juliet's back story did not reveal much that we did not already know. It gets the ball rolling for a battle between Jack and Ben for Juliet, but that is about it. As for Ben and Locke scenes, we learn that Widmore is behind the Freighter, big surprise, and then they reuse the "man on the boat" cliffhanger. The whole race to the power plant was lame too, Juliet goes off on her own, for no other reason than to keep her the central figue of the episode. The whole power plant seemed like cheesy sci-fi to me, like something out of a stargate episode. I will go as far to say that this episode is worse than 'egg town'. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Playsbad (talk • contribs) 2008-03-08T10:21:09.

The part of this episode that most bothered me was the (apparent) decision by Ben to a) convince Juliet to stop Charlotte and Daniel from what they were doing and b) to use Harper as the proxy for sending the request. Ben could not have known whether or not Juliet would attempt, let alone accomplish the mission. So the mission must not have been that important. If the mission was important, why not send the vanishing Harper to silently slit a few throats? Since Ben (apparently) can still communicate with the others, why would he want Juliet to know that? But this silly flip-flopping between Ben being the omnipotent/omniscient always-has-a-plan leader of the others, the petulant perpetually insecure love-struck child, the over-protective father, and the "good guy" is really wearing on me.--Eyeful Tower 09:28, 8 March 2008 (PST)

Just a comment about ranking. Do you routinely rank the chapters of a book as to which is better? Or do you take the book as a whole? I find that I personnaly do not want to try to rank episodes, but prefer to follow as the overall story unfolds. WCFrancis 11:17, 9 March 2008 (PDT)

Good point. And when you think about it, this episode seems to be the starting point of a number of storyline that may very well prove very interesting to follow : Charles Widmore as the "main villain" (or is he?), Ben's obsession for Juliet (if you watch the show carefully, this was already suggested early in Season 3), the Locke/Ben entente... So I'm convinced that when the Season is over, we will look back at this episode and say : "Yeah, this is how it all started".--Lauridsen77 13:00, 9 March 2008 (PDT)

"You look just like her"

Ben's childhood friend Annie? they grew up became lovers, she got pregnant and died in the island. Juliet reminds him of her. If sayid is the man in the freighter...Is it just me or this show is getting really stupid? (unsigned)

Don't worry; it can't be Sayid. That would have Sayid being in two places at one time. Even with the ability of a person's consciousness to travel in time, that would not be consistent with the rules revealed by Damon and Carlton in podcast 02/28/2008. WCFrancis 11:23, 9 March 2008 (PDT)

If you remember last season, Juliet supposedly looked like Sarah Shephard too. She doesn't look anything like Annie. So is/was Sarah seeing Ben or does someone else look exactly like Juliet/Sarah. With so few episodes left, there is nowhere good for this to go. Dharmatel4 20:12, 6 March 2008 (PST)

I hope the "her" is either Ben's mother (although that wouldn't make much sense) or Annie, because if it turns out to be Sarah that would be beyond stupid.--HaloOfTheSun 23:46, 6 March 2008 (PST)

I think it just wouldn't make much sense. The anger Ben reveals to Juliet when he shows her Goodwin's corpse shows his feelings for her are deep-seated and twisted. Harper talks about a woman like she is gone - no longer in Ben's life. If Sarah was Ben's lover, he'd have no problem being in touch with her - plus, she split with Jack around the same period Ben was courting Juliet (the 3 years before the crash). My money is on his mother being the other woman. --Moo 00:04, 8 March 2008 (PST)

We've never seen an older verison of Annie, so who's to say Juliet doesn't look like her? I'd say it's a much better bet that Ben seeing Sarah. hatetodd 21:14, 6 March 2008 (PST)

I think it's his mother; check out Ben's Painting--Ex-Pope Cardinal Richard Corey 21:33, 6 March 2008 (PST)

• That's just creepy -- LOSTonthisdarnisland 04:23, 7 March 2008 (PST)

What it is, is Oedipal.--Ex-Pope Cardinal Richard Corey 09:39, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Annie is a young blonde white girl, Juliet is a grown-up blonde white woman. That's all it takes to make the statement Harper made. Look at serial-killer profiles, they tend to go after women with all the same hair colour, without any further connection and its often because they were hurt by a woman with that colour hair. Plus, the casting of Annie and/or Juliet probably wasn't in line with a comment to be made by a yet uninvented character in a yet unshown Season 4 episode. I'll admit though that its either Ben's mom or Annie, I just wanted to contest the idea that Juliet couldn't look like Annie. Wikistoriographer 11:02, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Actually, Annie has brown hair. From a story perspective, I think it would make the most sense if Juliet looked like a grown up Annie, but if that's the case, they did a terrible job of casting young Annie if we're supposed to buy that she ended up looking like Juliet when she grew up. Based purely on looks, Juliet looks much more like Ben's mom. --Minderbinder 11:52, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Is hair color really the only thing that's supposed to match for someone to resemble another person? What if a grown up Annie looks just like Juliette, only with brown hair? I'm not saying this is the case, I'm just saying that basing a theory purely on hair color is not that solid. --     blacxthornE       t a l k        f l a s h b a c k     12:04, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I'm not basing a theory solely on hair color. I'm just saying that if their intention was that Annie grew up to look like Juliet, it seems more likely they would have cast a blonde kid in the role - if that's what it turns out to be, there will certainly be people who will point out the difference in hair color. Unless they do something silly and stick a brown wig on Elizabeth Mitchell to play grown up Annie in a flashback. --Minderbinder 12:10, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I too believe "her" is supposed to be Ben's mother Emily. An Oedipal complex is just fitting for Ben. His Mother died giving him life, his father always caused him immense guilt because of that, blaming him to have murdered his wife. Ben kills his father to take revenge but certainly never looses the feeling of guilt. Going by how he followed her "ghost" into the unknown jungle, his mother must seem like an Angel to him, not least because his father most likely told little Ben only how good and beautiful his mother was and how much she wanted that child. Juliet resembles her so much and Ben must feel like his mother came back to him, a moment he secretly craved for all his life. He mistakes the pure love of a son for his mother for real love or better: the love of a son transformed into real love for this woman. He might not even consciously realise why he is drawn to Juliet, he just follows his heart. It would be dumb by the producers not to play the Oedipal card on Ben. It's just so logical. Annie is just a ruse. Roger 13:35, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Plus his mother is really what lead him to become who he is. Among other things, the vision of her lured him to leave the Barracks which led to him meeting Alpert etc.

• I think the Oedipus complex is incredibly relevant here. In Freud’s theory the young child hates and is jealous of the father because the father has sex with the mother. The child sees the father as a rival to his exclusive possession of his mother’s love. In order for the child to develop normally, this initial libidinal fixation on the mother must be redirected towards a socially-acceptable substitute. Thus, it’s normal for men to be attracted to women similar to their mothers. And isn’t Ben’s life already a messed-up Oedipal story in which the father is jealous of the son for supposedly having killed his mother? As a psychologist, Harper would assume that Ben would choose a woman similar to his mother. When Ben becomes attached to Juliet, she becomes his mother imago (image or symbol). Goodwin is in the position of the father/rival because he has sex with Juliet and Ben wants her all to himself. By killing Goodwin, Ben plays out an Oedipal drama and reveals the depth of his complex. --Emily76 09:26, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

Another vote here for mother. They do look similar, after all. --Litany42 19:23, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I find it hard to believe Harper is referring to Juliet looking just like Ben's mother. His mother died at his birth, more than ten years before Ben came to the island. Years after that he killed the majority of the people on the island (Dharma). The hostiles took over the Barracks, and more people have since been brought to the island. Are viewers really expected to believe these people know what colour hair Ben's mother had, let alone say she looks just someone 40 years later? I can't imagine Ben has too many photos in his house, due to the manner with which he took over, and if he did, how many people studied them to compare to Juliet?

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Lost_Art#Ben.27s_House Believe. --Moo 19:04, 16 March 2008 (PDT)

It is much more plausible, in my opinion, that it is either Annie or an unmentioned character being referred to. Hair dye was invented in 1907, I'm sure it made it to the island for Annie to change the colour of here hair. Pike 13:01, 13 March 2008 (PDT)

The Man On The Boat

I'm almost dead certain that Ben's 'man on the boat' is Michael. Why not? He told Locke it was going to be a shock (his words were 'you might want to sit down for this') Ten bucks says its Michael. Also speaking of Michael, are we ever going to learn about Walt's 'special' abilities? Or is that just another season one dropper?

Well, first off, we're obviously going to learn more about Walt's abilities. If you watched the mobisodes or even last season finale, you know that he's still important. Second, I'm now pretty sure that the man isn't Michael; the promo man said we would be seeing a face we had never expected to see again, and Harold Perrineau has been in the credits for most of the season, and we've been expecting to see him pretty much since he left anyway. Of course, promos can't be trusted, so my other thing is: How would Ben have gotten hold of Michael again? The man's off the island with his son; Ben has no more chips to play there. I think it's Mikhail.--Ex-Pope Cardinal Richard Corey 21:26, 6 March 2008 (PST)

• But keep in mind that the promos arn't really made for "us". They are made for the average audience members like my mother who would never pick up on the fact that Perrineau's name has been in the credits all season without me there to point it out to her.  :) hatetodd 21:36, 6 March 2008 (PST)
• Also, if it were Mikhail, he would have to have been traveling to from the boat during the early stages of all this. He was seen at both the Other's camp and in the Looking Glass after knowledge of the frieghter being off the coast was given on the show. hatetodd 21:52, 6 March 2008 (PST)
• Ben could have some influence on Michael if Ben helped him after he left the island. Michael wouldn't be able to go back to his old life because he would have to answer questions about the plane crash, etc.. He and Walt would need money and new identities, and as we know from the closet o'secret identities, Ben's good at procuring both. --Emily76 22:04, 6 March 2008 (PST)
• Also, in the official podcasts, didn't Lindelof and Cuse confirm that Mikhail is dead? Maybe this is how they're introducing their zombie series, lol. Lindsaynickel 22:34, 6 March 2008 (PST)

• Carlton Cuse has said that "Mikhail is dead at least twice.", and that "dead does not mean that you can’t reappear". --     c      blacxthornE      t     09:07, 7 March 2008 (PST)

INDEED, Michael is almost certainly Ben's 'man on the boat.' Who else could it be?? Ben told Locke he ought to be sitting down; therefore, the 'man on the boat' is someone Locke knew. And who else could it be? I can't think of any former cast members besides Michael (and of course Walt) who didn't DIE. IT COULD ONLY BE MICHAEL. And truth be told, I don't think he's with Walt anymore. I think those evil bastards are continuing to use Walt to play Michael like a pawn.C.m. 08:56, 7 March 2008 (PST)

As for the possibility that it's Mikhail, I don't think that would call for Ben to tell Locke that he'd better be sitting down. There is obviously going to be some emotional SHOCK to the revelation of who the "MOTB" is. It might be *surprising* to Locke that Mikhail was on the boat, but not shocking; after all, Mikhail was Ben's employee.C.m. 09:00, 7 March 2008 (PST)

One could argue that it would be shocking to hear that the man on the boat is someone you've recently killed. We do not know if Locke knows about Mikhail returning once to save Naomi and another time to stop Charlie. --     c      blacxthornE      t     09:45, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Locke knows that Mikhail survived the Sonar Fence though, remember he beat the living crap out of him so Ben would take him to Jacob and since Locke only just recently joined back up with the Losties he probably wouldn't know that Mikhail was "killed" at the Looking Glass, so it wouldn't really be a shock to him if Mikhail was the Man on the Boat.

I think by now, Locke has been on the island long enough that the revelation that someone he thought was dead, wasn't, wouldn't phase him that much; it certainly wouldn't shock him.C.m. 16:53, 12 March 2008 (PDT)

I think the man on the boat is Walt. Whether the time anomaly affected him, perhaps he is all grown up. -- Perhaps the split in time and the ability to manipulate the furture across time lead Walt to become the captain!. --PMcgrath 10:23, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I think it would have to be Michael at this point, but here's an interesting tip that some of you may have seen on another Lost site: It's not so much about WHO the man on the boat is, but HOW. The opening credits for the last 5 weeks have had me convinced it could be Michael (or possibly Regina, since she always seems sketchy on the phone), but if it's him, the HOW Ben manipulated him into doing it is now the more interesting story for me.--Jeff 10:44, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Maybe it's Helen. Or possibly someone else from Locke's past.--Vico 21:16, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I think that it is a very good option for the man in the boat and John Locke's possible fainting. The big problem that someone from Locke's past would bring is that we would have another character to deal with and thus, another tree of relations from Locke's past to the Others and to whoever that "man" could be related.

I'd be surprised if it's anyone from Locke's past; I don't think any of the characters from his flashbacks (except dead Anthony Cooper) were intended for long-term use in the show. I could be wrong, of course.C.m. 16:53, 12 March 2008 (PDT)

Oh yeah, I forgot about the encounter at the barracks. Yeah, so Mikhail wouldn't be shocking. But then... Michael wouldn't be either. Actually I can't think of anyone. I think in this episode we'll find out that it's someone that Locke didn't need to sit down to hear, and it's just the way Ben dramatized things. --     c      blacxthornE      t     04:02, 13 March 2008 (PDT)

Plot Twists in Episode

I've notice that a few plot twists were taken out the section. C. Widmore being behind the frieghter seems like a pretty good example of a plot twist to me. I also think that the fact that Ben is now freed to live among the survivors in the Barracks would be considered a twist in the set plot as well, if for nothing else, while it may not have suprised us as a audience it suprised the characters of the show (Sawyer and Hurley) and ended the episode. hatetodd 21:34, 6 March 2008 (PST)

"The prologue begins like a flashforward, with Juliet apparently off the Island and subject of much publicity like the Oceanic 6, only for Tom to walk in and establish it as a flashback to her time with the Others."-quote

• It never even occurred to me that this was a flash-forward. My wife either. I think this is a user's opinion, and not ness a plot twist.--moss ryder 09:58, 7 March 2008 (PST)
  • It was very clear they ment to make look like she is one of the O6, but again, it was poorly written and badly preformed.
    • Actually, I think that was their intention, but I'll bet it didn't even occur to some people because they have completely ruled out the possibility of Juliet being O6 - why would she be, if she was never missing and went to the island voluntarily? --Minderbinder 13:23, 7 March 2008 (PST)
      • She always wanted to get back home and we saw that a million times. She hated Ben and always wanted to get back to her sister. And it was not "poorly written and badly performed": We know that Juliet wants off the island. We know that she's been with Jack recently. We didn't know that there were any shrinks at the barracks. We know that the O6 are "celebrities" and she said she doesn't like to be one. And, of course, we've been seeing flashforwards for a couple of episodes, revealing Oceanic 6 members, and we were expecting one in this episode too. If you just "ruled out" Juliet being an Oceanic 6 member, that doesn't make it necessarily a poor writing. --     c      blacxthornE      t     04:39, 10 March 2008 (PDT)
        • Yeah but it's the "Oceanic" 6, not the Island 6. All 6 of them have to have been on that flight otherwise they wouldn't be called the Oceanic 6, especially since they all apparently recieved a large settlement from Oceanic Airlines. Unless Juliet assumed one of their identities. That's also why I think Aaron doesn't count as one of the 6, although he was technically on the plane, he wasn't a registered passenger on the plane. They'd have the manifest and know the names of all the people who were on the plane.
          • Good point, about her not being on the 815, but I had already considered her being one of the O6 before because we know that everything about the crash is a lie. We don't know what the settlement is really about, and we don't know if the Oceanic 6 are really Oceanic--actually Juliet being one of them was a possible plot twist. It is open to debate, of course, but we did have a lot of reasons to think that it is possible. --     c      blacxthornE      t     07:14, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

• I'm so glad that it's Widmore's boat honestly, it's starting to tie things together more. Plus I was worried that it might have been BEN'S boat -- that he might have sent it after himself as kind of a mindf*ck on the castaways, and I wouldn't have put it past him. ... so, with the realization that it's Widmore's boat and last week's scene of him bidding on the Black Rock manifest from the estate of a Hanso -- despite the fact that Hanso and Widmore were rumored to be allies -- is it safe to assume that Hanso and Widmore might be at odds w/ each other? Or am I completly off-base. --Jeff 10:48, 7 March 2008 (PST)

• • I think that if it is Widmores boat then the fact that he is supposedly in alliance with the Hanso Foundation makes sense-after all, Ben is responsible for the purge, and so he went against the DHARMA corporation and in doing that, the Hanso Foundation.. I didnt have the internet in time to dot he whole Lost Experience thing-I only know what Ive managed to get through on this site, so I could be wrong.. But the real question then will be-if the Hanso Foundation are supposed to be evil, and Bens pretty creepy..will it just be a case of the lesser of two evils-or will Ben turn out to be the good guy? I mean-they have a tendency to lead you to one conclusion about a character and then blow it out of the water further down the line... --PyroGizPyroGiz 16:08, 9 March 2008 (PDT)

• I sure didn't mess with anything plot twist related, but I'll say this: Widmore being the owner doesn't qualify at all. What does it twist from? We were never led to believe anything different, we just didn't know, no necessary suspense involved (including the fact that, by now, we only know the name, not the intentions). What the episode does is just to reveal who is that guy -- and we got to know him from times before, but he doesn't ring any bells for most of the Losties. Ben being freed is also something completely different: it wasn't a twist in the narrative in any way, only in the course of event and according to the story. Things were discussed between Locke and him and were frankly shown as going that way. It's just Locke's logical change of mind based on cost-benefit. As for the prologue, I don't know what their intention was, but I also felt it could be a FF, until Tom came up -- it was kind of a personal twist, but that's just as much as I can say. -. Grillage .- 02:37, 15 March 2008 (PDT)

BASE jumping

Removed blooper about BASE jumping per http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmZyB_ghpa0 http://www.justviralvideos.com/viralvideos/16614/Base_Jump_From_Helicopter.htm and wikipedia:base jumping. -- LOSTonthisdarnisland 02:57, 7 March 2008 (PST)

• That is still not accurate, but so be it. By definition, BASE refers to a jump from a fixed object, either natural or man-made. Thus, helicopters do not qualify. Youtube videos are hardly a source of information. But even in the second video link (which is one of Felix's jumps) you will see that he lands on top of a building and then jumps off again. That is the real BASE jump there. He just couldn't find any other way to get to the roof. Go figure

• Perhaps not, in the strictest sense of the usage (as you point out that's what BASE is), but I used them to show that it's not uncommon for heli jumps to be refered to BASE jumps in the same manner. Let's not try too hard to find a blooper in every episode, giving the LOST crew the benefit of the doubt when it's commonly used in a manner found elsewhere. -- LOSTonthisdarnisland 05:29, 9 March 2008 (PDT)
  • Isn't a jump like that from a Helicopter called a Halo jump?
  • No. HALO is an acronym that stands for "High Altitude, Low Opening"--Bonefishj0e 20:35, 10 March 2008 (PDT)

• Regarding the definition of base jump - Google Define says...

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=define%3A+base+jump&btnG=Google+Search&meta= Pike 13:12, 13 March 2008 (PDT)

Valve?

The computer screen in the Tempest repeatedly has the word "Valve". Is this a reference to the Lost easter egg in the Valve game HalfLife 2: Episode 2? The number of times that word appears on screen is very unusual. Tin 04:34, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I'm sure the machines containing the gasses would have dozens of valves. wikipedia:valve. Froglars 04:57, 7 March 2008 (PST)

All the gas used for the purge would be there, so it makes sense that valve is mentioned a lot.

Well, yes, obviously... But that's what makes a subtle reference subtle. I also noticed when re-watching it, there is a clear shot of a classic big manual valve handle/wheel, of the exact style Valve use repeatedly in their games as a play on their company name. The HL2:E2 commentary also implies that JJ Abrams is a fan of Halflife, and suggests Lost has referenced Halflife before, so that's why I asked... He's done it before, and Valve responded... Why not give subtle reference to the company directly? Tin 03:52, 19 March 2008 (PDT)

Daniel's Map

If someone taped the HD broadcast maybe we'd be able to read some of the lettering on this..

--Joffeloff 07:27, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Other then the word Unknown is that the symbol for the Tempest?

• The symbol for the Tempest is the one that everybody thought was the Orchid for ages

The Numbers References

In the recurring themes, they call the lock combination a reference to the numbers. I think with only 1 out of 3 of the safe combo numbers being one of The Numbers, this is decidedly NOT a reference to the Numbers. I think we're trying to de-code too hard.Wikistoriographer 08:34, 7 March 2008 (PST) Ben tells Locke the safe combination: 36 15 28. (The Numbers)

• I agree that it is not a meaningful reference, but you can't tell me that the producers and writers "randomly" or "accidentally" added 15 to the combination, or that it is incidental (especially in a show whose major theme is about free will vs. fate). I think that anytime one or more of "the numbers" is used, it is a reference however large or small. Trying to de-code too hard would be pointing out that 36-28=8... --Litany42 09:54, 7 March 2008 (PST)
  • Actually, I disagree with your statement. Pointing out that 36-28=8 gave those two numbers at least a little significance. Numbers come up all the time and every time 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 or 42 occur should not be pointed out. When these numbers are in proximity, the reference gains creedance, like the jersey numbers on athletes shirts in the airport or police car numbers. Just hearing the number 15 in the show should not be considered a reference.Wikistoriographer 10:35, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Harper's disappearance

• Harper was 'sent' by Ben via time travel. This also explains why Ben is so well informed, despite being locked in the basement.
  • As far as we know only the conciousness can be sent through time travel, so unless that's proven otherwise, she can't be a result of time travel.

It's really easy to run away into the jungle at night when everyone is looking very intently in the other direction. Harper's "disappearance" isn't an unanswered question, unless you're trying to suggest that she did it supernaturally, which in my opinion is theory baiting. Thoughts? Jimbo the tubby 09:08, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Its not baiting. Her whole appearance and disappearance has no easy explaination. Dharmatel4 09:43, 7 March 2008 (PST)

• Beat me to it. I think as an isolated incident, it might be theory baiting, but it is part of a series of strange events: the whispers, the question of how Harper talked to Ben when he's been locked in a basement, the question of why Harper and why now, and Juliette's reaction to Harper. Is this an instance of Harper "appearing" like Walt does? Or is she real? That's the question her sudden appearance/disappearance raises. --Litany42 09:47, 7 March 2008 (PST)

• Rewatch that section; Jack looks totally confused at Harper's sudden disappearance. --Spiral 10:36, 7 March 2008 (PST)
  • Understandable, he turns around to look for the source of the whispers then turns back and she's gone, I'd be pretty confused too.

• Its certianly an unanswered question. The way she pops up behind Juliet really shows that she was meant to come out of nowhere. If Harper had really just snuck up out of the jungle her body language would have been totally different. She was standing as if she'd been there all along. I'll admit her disappearance would have been easy to just run away since Jack turned all the way around for a significant amount of time, but the overall scene shows we were supposed to see her as appearing and disappearing out of nowhere. Wikistoriographer 10:45, 7 March 2008 (PST)
  • Theres something to the whispers and the travel methods of the Others. This is probably just a way to remind us of what the others can do. I for one was becoming complacent with the new personality of The Others. I was starting to question why they seemed so normal now when they used to be able to travel without leaving a trail or their seemingly superhuman strength. Wikistoriographer 10:45, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Harper is likely dead, maybe off island (boat? perhaps?) and is now part of the collective consciousness that manifests in the smokemonster/jacob... like Sawyers' boar, Jacks' father, Kates' horse, etc. I'm also not sure that this impression of Harper is actually in contact with Ben.--PMcgrath 10:50, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I still disagree, but I guess I'll go with the consensus on this one. Although, I'm curious... PMcgrath: how do you figure that she's likely dead? I saw nothing to suggest that. Jimbo the tubby 11:05, 7 March 2008 (PST)

• • It seems to be Dead things/people that appear in the whispers - and these things seem to manifest to manipulate the people on the island. There are cases where the death is unconfirmed (like Hurley's mental friend) -- but I guess that the black lawyer is a member of the slave ship... but this show is full of theories. :-)--PMcgrath 11:25, 7 March 2008 (PST)
    • • Not necessarily, when Sawyer, Hurley, Jack and Kate were being lead by Michael, the whispers came just before they got attacked by the Others, no supernatural influence there.
    • I don't know if there's any evidence to support it, but the vibe of her appearance gave me (and the other people I was watching with) the impression that she was appearing as a vision, like walt or Jack's dad, and not a real person. It doesn't seem like that's the case based on the rest of the episode, but it was odd how they handled that scene. --Minderbinder 11:59, 7 March 2008 (PST)

• • Ben's mom appeared in the jungle after being dead, there were Whispers there too. check out the transcripts. there is even one where you can hear Boone say "Hi sis" right after Shanon dies.

I don't really like this question being on the unanswered questions section. What I think it's really getting at is whether or not it was Harper or an apparition of some kind (maybe the monster), which is certainly a valid theory, but it's a bit too speculative/theory-baiting to go in unanswered questions.Liquidcow 16:11, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I changed it to "How is Harper able to suddenly appear and disappear into the jungle?" because I think that the other wording implied more of a supernatural answer. I believe that the whispers and the Others are completely separate, until it's proven otherwise, so I'd rather not imply that the two come from the same source, even if they're often seen/heard together. Jimbo the tubby 20:03, 7 March 2008 (PST)

• It was only Jack who was gawking around (predictably) so she could have time to 'disappear.' Juliet didn't seem distracted by the whispers, which seem like a pretty cool cover for escaping. Moo 00:09, 8 March 2008 (PST)

Hasn't it been pretty much established that the Others are very skilled at being stealthy and covering their tracks? There are plenty of examples across the first two seasons that demonstrate their ability to sneak around, move quickly, and avoid detection. Surely then this is not a new question but part of an ongoing one?Liquidcow 04:04, 8 March 2008 (PST)

Agreed. Jimbo the tubby 19:51, 8 March 2008 (PST)

• We don't know that Harper is dead, and there's nothing suggesting that she didn't have, as she said, instructions from Ben in some manner (NB Juliet states that Ben wanted her to kill Charlotte and Daniel). If Ben, as Harper also said, is "right where he wants to be", it's within the realm of probability that Ben preplanned his "capture" and told Harper beforehand that he wanted her to go to Juliet and deliver that message. I think unanswered question is a big stretch. -- LOSTonthisdarnisland 05:38, 9 March 2008 (PDT)

What's all this hustle about her disappearance? It's a bloody jungle, it's quite easy to "disappear" when both of the people are looking around distracted and it's heavilly raining. It makes me laugh when I read the theories of Ben sending her by time travel. MAYBE SHE WAS TELEPORTED!? Come on guys. BeŻet 13:35, 10 March 2008 (PDT)

To put it simply, the show handled that scene similar to the appearances of Walt and some dead characters - while it's possible she just ran up and then ran away, if that's what the producers intended, they certainly were trying to be misleading. --Minderbinder 14:02, 10 March 2008 (PDT)

• I wondered if Harper was dead too, but Damon Lindelof just said in the podcast that we would see her again, that "she's still on the island. We didn't kill her." So I guess she is indeed alive! Lindsaynickel 20:33, 10 March 2008 (PDT)

• I see no reason why Harper can't be a real, live, in-the-flesh person. The Others haave managed to appear and disappear at will often enough. It is, after all, a thick, wild, over-grown jungle. Plus people with enough experience and understanding can easily move quickly through such environments without leaving a trail or making noise especially if they are familiar with the terrain.

As for the whispers... They don't seem to be limited to the monster. In fact, from reading the transcripts, I get the feeling that they are seperate from it. They seem almost as observers and, also, occassional echoes from the past. They certainly are not limited to events involving the monster. We hear them when we see Walt. We hear them when the Others kidnap Kate, Sawyer, Jack, and Hurley. Rousseau identifies them with the Others. I think they are sort of seperate from all of these events. They may be linked with Jacob but I only think that because one of the whisperers seems to be Christian and he seemed to be seen in Jacob's cabin with an eye that seemed to be Jacob's. Lots of seeming so I choose not to assume anything. Besides, good mysteries are best when you can't figure out the answers but are still pressed to try at every turn.

Nonetheless, Occam's Razor would seem to apply well here. We have no evidence to suggest death is a necessity for the whispers nor any reason to assume Harper couldn't have slipped off while Jack and Juliet were distracted. We over-complicate the hypothesis by over-thinking and introducing too many variables with too little concrete evidence. The simplest answer is usually the correct one. --Lanie 00:26, 12 March 2008 (PDT)

Henry Gale's Balloon and Boat Race

Henry Gale (the real one) arrived on a hot air balloon with a "Widmore Labs" logo on the side. Could this have been another one of Charles Widmore's first attempts to find the island, along with the boat race that he organized that Desmond was on? --Narte 10:31, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Check the theory pages for the balloon and boat race, I'm sure that theory has been on both for a long time. --Minderbinder 12:00, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Ratings

Hello all,

Last night's episode in my opinion was great, not as awesome as some of the previous ones. It just could have been better. Although, It got me excited to find out that Charles Widmore is behind the finding of the island, plus seeing a new station was cool. The story and flashbacks of juliet were unnecessary... I did not need to know about her past, I felt it was a waste of an episode. Just like Eggtown. They need to do better, otherwise the ratings will go down.

I have some unfortunate news to tell you guys. The Other Woman was rated fairly low by the fans. As you can see in the image below:

What do you guys think??

--     Nusentinsaino     talk    contribs    email   10:37, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I dont think that the flashbacks were unnecessary. It was more that they were badly plotted and written. Turning Ben into a cartoon villian standing over a dead body telling Juliet that she belonged to him was lame. The whole dinner scene was pathetic too. And the writers didn't quite catch the irony of Juliet's new man (Jack) being an alcoholic stalker. And creating a throwaway character like Harper out of nowhere was lame. And finally, playing up the freighter people with "maybe they are good after all" twist endings at this point is DUMB. The episode failed because it was badly written and not true to the characters. Eggtown was similarly bad because the writing was bad. The only thing I can think of is that they rushed some of the scripts because of the strike last fall. Dharmatel4 11:09, 7 March 2008 (PST)

To comment on the last bit, I think that's a significant point - as we're getting into the last few episodes filmed before the strike, they are more likely to be filmed after the strike started meaning the writing may have been rushed, and they weren't able to do rewrites. I'd be curious to find out exactly which episodes were shot during the strike if anyone can find the info anywhere. Considering the circumstances of this season, I think it has been pretty damn good so far. --Minderbinder 12:03, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Well, to me, it seemed like one of the best episodes in S4 so far. Well, I got a flu right now, so that might be it, but I really liked it. Altough I start to hate Locke more and more and more - and I thought it is not possible to hate him more when I saw him enter 77. Wel, it is possible. --Running 12:34, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I really liked it too. I liked seeing that about the freighters, and really hoped Daniel would be a "good guy". I don't think that they're entirely good or bad. Here we have Ben and Widmore against each other. I think each is "bad" and that neither can really be trusted. So neither is really a "good side". Everyone else is trying to figure out who these people are and who's right. I think Daniel and Charlotte have their own agendas, their own reasons for being interested in the island, and that doing some of these things Widmore wants is just a way for them to be there. I liked seeing that they were helping, and I liked seeing more about Juliet. I didn't see anything as untrue to the characters. Lindsaynickel 14:20, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I liked this episode, too. Why must people keep comparing one episode to another? If you feel it was "untrue" to the characters, maybe it's because you've already judged and made up your mind about the characters. Character arcs are fun little hooks. If you stop taking the show so seriously for two seconds, maybe you could appreciate that. I guess all I'm trying to say is some peoples' expectations are way too high.

I agree that this episode was not the best of the season, but I feel that some people here may be too demanding. Last week episode "the Constant" was outstanding, and we can't realistically expect every episode to be as great and intense. If you remember last year, some episode of Season 3 were far worse than that (the one with Bai Ling for instance), but I think everyone will agree that Season 3 as a whole was great vintage. And I don't understand why people complains about the Freighter guys appearing alternatively "good" or "bad". Lost is a show about moral ambiguity, and there is a perfectly good explanation : Daniel and Charlotte might just not be totally aware of Widmore's true motives. So Widmore ordered them to defuse the gas, seemingly to save people while his true intentions was to deprive Ben of a weapon to use against his ambitions. So my point is : a not-so-great episode every now and then is not big deal, the only thing that matters is whether the writers know where they are going. And it's TV, so let's don't take that too seriously.--Lauridsen77 09:38, 8 March 2008 (PST)

Thanks for all of your opinions, it was very helpful.

I have good news though, The television ratings for The Other Woman was slightly higher than The Constant's ratings. Let's hope it stays this way!

Here is the breakdown:

Season 4 Ratings Breakdown:
401 "The Beginning of the End" 16.1
402 "Confirmed Dead" 15.2
403 "The Economist" 13.7
404 "Eggtown" 13.6
405 "The Constant" 12.8
406 "The Other Woman" 13

--     Nusentinsaino     talk    contribs    email   15:25, 8 March 2008 (PST)

Timeline Thoughts and Analysis for this Episode...

This seems like it's going to be tricky to pinpoint exact events in this episode... Here's my attempt at a Juliet/Ben flashback timeline.

---

[Before Day Zero / Plane Crash]--------

3.16 - Juliet arrives on Island, Meets Ben

4.06 - Juliet with Harper / Ben gives her the house

4.06 - Juliet loses a patient (Henrietta), Meets Goodwin

4.06 - Juliet researches with Ben, Goodwin brings sandwich / Harper harps

3.16 - Juliet loses a patient (Sabine), Goodwin comforts her / Ben makes deal with her to save Rachel from cancer

4.06 - Juliet and Goodwin on the beach

3.16 - Juliet and Goodwin in bed, Ben visits with x-rays, Juliet calls him a liar

3.01/3.16/MP12 - Juliet burns muffins, shows Amelia the envelope, holds book club

3.01/3.16/4.06 - Flight 815 crashes, Ben deploys Ethan and Goodwin / Ben takes Juliet to see Mikhail and shows her Rachel

---

[Day 12]--------

2.07 – Last of the Listed Tallies Kidnapped

---

[Day 21(ish)]--------

4.06 - Ben Holds a "Dinner Party," discusses the Tail Section with Juliet

---

[Day 27]--------

2.07 – Goodwin is Killed

---

[After Day 27, Before Day 49]------

4.06 – Ben shows Juliet Goodwin’s body, declares her to be “his.”

---

[Day 49]------

3.14 – Ben and Juliet visit the Pearl Station and spy on Jack. Ben finalizes his plan to kidnap and “break” Jack. Juliet thinks he’s cute.

---

[Day 58(ish)]------

2.14 – Ben found in Danielle’s trap

SO the tricky spot, timeline-wise is the “You’re Mine” scene. It was probably not long after Day 27, but who knows…

I wonder at Juliet putting up with Ben in the “Expose” scene after such a traumatic experience with Goodwin… You know what I would LOVE, if she very casually tricked him into getting caught in Danielle’s net and left him for dead :) … now THAT would be a great Flashback ending, and it could parallel island events that show her truly being “free” of Ben’s hold. --DesmondExMachina 11:23, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Ben has to show Goodwin's body to Juliet before Day 47. We see Goodwin's severely decomposed body on that day. Given the state of the body when Juliet sees it, I would say it has to be within a week of death at most. (Day 34). Dharmatel4 11:35, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Good call on the timeline - you could also add the other mobisodes if you wanted, one about walt, and one with Michael, as well as Exposé, which showed Ben and Juliet in the Pearl station. --Minderbinder 12:14, 7 March 2008 (PST)

For the record or discussion (or correction on what I'm saying) and personally I attribute the following to just a writer/narrative struggle to make plot align after 3 seasons that we should just accept but fun to point out all the same - Goodwin's body. Did Juliet and the Others just leave it there with the stake intact? So using Lostpedia to reconstruct the timeline:

Goodwin is killed on day 27 ("The Other 48 Days")

- The reason I'm wondering is that we know Jin and Eko come across the body on day 47. ("...And Found")

- So after 20 days ol' Goodwin would be pretty ripe (aside from island magic) but the body Juliet is shown does not seem too gamey. Anyways...

So Ben leads her to the body sometime on or after day 28 (the day he died). The body was still in the jungle sprouting the stake on day 47 (when Jin and Eko happen upon it).

Maybe Juliet saw Goodwin's body after day 47 and put it to rest after that. Or earlier just shrugged and left it there in grief or unable to do anything about it. Or - don't over analyze this ; ) --J.nc 21:16, 8 March 2008 (PST)

The Dinner Party scene has to take place some time after Day 30 because Juliet mentions Ethan's death (JULIET: "After losing Ethan, it's a risk") so when Juliet and Ben are talking about bringing Goodwin back he's already dead. So that puts all the Dinner Party/Goodwin-Finding to Days 30-49 (given that Juliet calls Jack "cute" is Expose I'd say close to the Day 30 mark)

the list and the kids

there is interesting dialogue between Ben and Juliet - I will try to rewrite it here:

• B: I wanna thank you for how wonderful you have been with Zach and Emma
• J: They are really sweet kids. (pause) Ben, they have been asking me about their mother in Los Angeles.... I am not really sure what to say.
• B: They will stop asking in time.
• J: They are children. Do they really belong here?

*B: They are on the list, Juliet. Who are we to question who is on the list and who is not?

• J: Now that we have everyone on the list from the tail section, what about Goodwin?

(....and so on....)

well, what can that mean? who creates the list? and so on.... --Running 12:44, 7 March 2008 (PST)

The show has already made mention of a list from Jacob. Based on the "who are we to question" comment, Jacob seems likely for this particular list. --Minderbinder 13:07, 7 March 2008 (PST)

yes this conversation was quite interesting tho there was mention of Jacobs list, the reshowing of the crash from the perspective of the bunker and ben saying that he wanted lists from Ethan and Goodwin leads me to believe that there is more then one list out there. I still dont get that whole list thing i hope that it comes to light soon.

There are quite a few lists, I'd recommend reading the article Lists. --Minderbinder 13:39, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Something else important I noticed about this conversation is that it is clearly set before Cindy's abduction, which was during the Tailies trip to the beach. So does that mean Cindy wasn't on the List? And if not, why was she taken? For the sole purpose of caring for the kids? --Chickamauga 11:37, 27 March 2008 (PDT)

too much quoting

The synopsis section is full of quotes, most are unnecessary. Just thought i'd point this out since I'm too lazy to convert/delete them myself. --CharlieReborn 13:24, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I totally agree. Starting with the quotes, it needs to be simplified.--Vico 21:41, 7 March 2008 (PST)

the whole valve code

I don't know if this is interesting enough for the article, but I (as a unix geek:) ) have watched the Tempest part few times and as I have watched the "computer" part, I have noticed that there is this code repeated more times (never in whole, always only some part):

>:set valve 21B = close
V21B NOT RESPONDING

>:BC22 reset
BC22 RESETTING ..... RESET COMPLETE

>:set valve 21B = off
VALVE 21B REPORTS CLOSED
MASTER CAUTION AND WARNING!
CROSS FEED ASS 16 OVERPRESSURE ALERT!

>:set vent C = open
VENTC REPORTS OPEN
MASTER CAUTION AND WARNING!
CROSS FEED ASS 16 OVERPRESSURE ALERT!

>:master caution reset
MASTER CAUTION RESET
 
>:telnet tmpst4
CONNECTION REFUSED
MASTER CAUTION AND WARNING!
NEW ALARM
TES/31 VAPOR PRESSURE 81%

>:set n-p/hgd tank cooling = MAX
FMNT TANK COOLING = MAX
MASTER CAUTION AND WARNING!
NEW ALARM
TANKS 1, 2, 3, 4 INTEGRITY FAILURE.
EVACUATE NON-ESSENTIAL PERSONNEL.
CONTAINMENT BREACH IMMINENT!
EVACUATE NON-ESSENTIAL PERSONNEL.
MASTER CAUTION AND WARNING!
NEW ALARM
TES3/31 VAPOR PRESSURE 100%
CONTAINMENT BREACH IMMINENT!
EVACUATE NON-ESSENTIAL PERSONNEL.

>:set valve BC22 = open
VALVE NOT RESPONDING
MASTER CAUTION AND WARNING!
CONTAINMENT BREACH IMMINENT!
EVACUATE NON-ESSENTIAL PERSONNEL.

>:set valve BC (something)

In the end, when they save the world again, the code is the same to last "set valve BC22 = open", but it ends with

>:set valve BC22 = open
VALVE BC22 REPORTS OPEN

>:master caution reset
MASTER CAUTION RESET
NO CURRENT ALARMS
SYSTEM PRESSURE WITHIN NORM PARAM
TANK INTEGRITY TEST REPORT SECURE

On the more "colorful" monitor, there is:

• some random, big red numbers, changing every moment (too lazy to find some pattern in it)
• some random small numbers with letters, also changing
• the time to detonation
• the sign

CONTAINMENT PRESSURE MONITOR
SYSTEM 2.6 V1.0.2
.....
PRESSURE OVERLOAD: ENGAGED
PRESSURE LIMITER: OFF

• and the output from "shell" from the "green" monitor :)

Ïf you think it is useful, include it into the article :)

--Running 13:59, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Oh well, maybe I will at last :) --Running 14:10, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I'm having a problem understanding why they sent an eccentric physicist to do complex process work using what seems to be an early 80s computer system. (Did they even have computerized process systems back then...?) Is it simply a secondary mission that Daniel is *most* adept at out of the people sent to the island? Anyone out there know enough about process systems to fill us in? --Litany42 19:18, 7 March 2008 (PST)

He may teach himself how to work the systems AFTER he actually "saves the day". After all, he taught Eloise how to run the maze an hour after she did it. Of course... if Desmond stopped returning to the past as soon as he had contact with his constant (call to Penelope) then I guess theoretically Daniel no longer goes forward/back in time, as Daniel met Des before he took off. So I might shoot my own theory in the foot :P --Gredge 16:24, 12 March 2008 (PDT)

dunno but thx for all the work in getting all this logged!--J.nc 20:49, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Usually if you send a small operations team people are cross trained and multi-talented just in case there are losses. Maybe one the of people who committed suicide or got killed another way was the computer/chemical weapons expert and Faraday was the backup. N1ck0 14:51, 14 March 2008 (PDT)

It all seems odd... Wouldn't you think that in order to render the gas neutral there would be some VERY complex and hardcore coding ? Seems Daniel was REALLY going to release the gases (opening valves) and when Juliette really had them cornered, he initiated the master caution reset and "saved the day". Why would they be so sneaky otherwise ? --Frankov 11:58, 8 March 2008 (PST)

You never know...maybe the gas it a two part reactant and he is disposing of one half, maybe by cutting the coolant off or changing the environment, pressure, etc the gas breaks down, or possibly the antidote is kept in another tank and he cross-fed the two. IMO the gas was on a fail-deadly system (opposite of fail-safe) that if someone tries to tamper with the station it releases the gas, thus Faraday was making the system safe again (disarming and returning to a stable state). N1ck0 14:51, 14 March 2008 (PDT)

I don't know if this is a blooper, but the input in the computer is a bit strange. Sometimes he enters commands properly:

command argument

(like telnet tmpst4) and sometimes the other, "wrong" way:

argument command

(like BC22 reset). I can't think off any operating system where you can type the object name and then "what to do with it". Correct me if I'm mistaken. BeŻet 13:42, 10 March 2008 (PDT)

It strikes me that it's more of a CLI to an application, rather than an actual OS. Now think how big text-based adveture games were in the 80's: their parsers were good enough to cope with allsorts of convoluted syntax; it doesn't seem impossible to me for an app that wanted to give total flexability to provide a similar interface. What particularly grated, however, were the increasingly desperate vocal warnings sounding out over the klaxon. These are very common in films and TV, but do such things actually exist in real life? Now I grant you I've never been in a large chemical based facility, but the industrial sites that I have experienced have never had more than sirens and lights available to indicate an emergency evacuation is required. Irrelevant 02:26, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

• Most of the computer interfaces we've seen look to be custom apps (not too uncommon in lab/manufacturing/accounting/telecom/etc industries). Which mean that they could literally write any sort of command structure they wanted. And as Irrelevant indicates above it is pretty trivial to write a parser that can accept multiple input syntaxes. And based on the equipment I'm guessing they are probably using a mainframe or terminal server model, where each app is just accepting standard input over a typical dumb terminal or some proprietary setup. N1ck0 14:42, 14 March 2008 (PDT)

Dollar Bill

Did anyone else think that the bill Locke gave to Ben was actually Henry Gale's $20 bill with the note to his wife on it? Seems like an odd item for Locke to keep after the crash otherwise (unless it's from Ben's secret room). --Hugo815 14:27, 7 March 2008 (PST)

It definitely looks like a single to me. I agree that it was weird for him to have it on him, especially since it looks like it was the only bill he had. --macosx 15:27, 7 March 2008 (PST)

It could also be the $1 Ben lost to John from the bet he told Sayid about. I thought he was joking though. --Hugo815 15:39, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I wondered if there was something significant about the bill, whether there was something written on it perhaps. Maybe, maybe not.Liquidcow 16:16, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I assumed it was one of the bills from Ben's secret room. Locke is giving him the bill to let him know the room is no longer a secret. --Litany42 19:10, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I think it's fairly obvious that it's the dollar bill Ben handed over to Locke for losing the bet. There's no other explanation for Locke to have a loose dollar bill in his pocket after all these months on the Island. Just my $0.02 + compounding interest. Robert K S (talk) 02:01, 8 March 2008 (PST)

I thought it was the Henry Gale note as well at first, but if that were the case, I suspect they would've done more to illustrate the callback. I think it's more likely the dollar that Ben lost to John. Even if the bet weren't literal, John probably took it from Ben's stash just to prove the point. Jimbo the tubby 19:50, 8 March 2008 (PST)

Cultural Reference to King David

There is a similarity in Ben's action to leave Goodwin undercover with King David's sending "Uriah the Hittite" to his doom in order to take his wife, Bathsheba.

While Ben doesn't include instructions to abandon Goodwin, like David did with Uriah, he did hope that Goodwin's end would come so that there would be no competition for Juliette. --Vorpar 15:40, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Interesting but a little tenuous perhaps to go in the article, unless you can find a more direct reference somewhere that might prove they had the King David thing in mind.Liquidcow 16:14, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Agreed --CharlieReborn 01:07, 8 March 2008 (PST)

clarifications

"Suddenly, Tom appears, and wants to take her to Ben." Wants to take Juliette.

"When Juliet says "You didn't have to do all this, I mean, I'm only here for six months,(quote moved to after comma for US standard English) ' Ben responds, suspiciously, 'Right. We just wanted you to feel at home.'" This is not exactly what Ben says, so do not use full quotes.

• He said "Right. Of course, but we want you to feel at home" --Hugo815 17:31, 7 March 2008 (PST)

"The man then gets beaten up and killed." This is implied but is it certain (as much as anything in LOST is certain)?

Notinpdx

Unaswered Questions removal

• How was Goodwin's injury caused?

I got the impression the important bit about this is that Goodwin lied about the injury. if he works in a chimical factory, he is likey to get burned. please agree/disagree below. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CharlieReborn (talk • contribs) 2008-03-07T23:10:43.

Then why would he lie about it. Why keep it a secret? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by OMFG Its Vico (talk • contribs) 2008-03-08T00:44:06.

Well, maybe not every one of the Others knew about The Tempest, and it was kept secret. a baby doctr doesnt really need to know they have a station that can kill everyone on the island in the flick of a switch —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CharlieReborn (talk • contribs) 2008-03-08T01:47:21.

Well, we also don't know exactly how he got the injury, just that it's a chemical burn. Lindsaynickel 02:09, 8 March 2008 (PST)

The question to ask is: is it reasonable to expect that this will be solved a later episode? I think the answer is no: Goodwin got his chemical burn in secret work at the Tempest and no one but Ben was supposed to know about it. For the purposes of the plot, that's all we needed to know. Robert K S (talk) 02:48, 8 March 2008 (PST)

I disagree, I find myself suspicious about the chemical burn, and I suspect we will find out how he got it eventually. I'll cop to the possibility that we won't, but to me it feels like something that will be revisited, possibly when/if we find out more about the Tempest. Jimbo the tubby 19:49, 8 March 2008 (PST)

If you think about Lost in terms of setups and payoffs, the burn is a setup that's already been paid off. We eventually learned that Goodwin was responsible for working with toxic chemicals at the Tempest, answering in general terms how he would get a chemical burn. We do not know the specifics of the burn, but whatever they were, they wouldn't seem to be sufficiently mysterious enough anymore to justify multiple theories about them. That said, I concede there is room for disagreement about this issue. Robert K S (talk) 00:36, 10 March 2008 (PDT)

Recurring themes error?

• "Goodwin and Harper had been sleeping in separate beds for a year when he and Juliet began their affair." Is this accurate? I got the feeling that was supposed to tell us that the affair had been going on for a year, that it was a year since Harper found out about the affair, and that's why Goodwin had been sleeping on the couch. I didn't want to remove it before getting opinions, so how did everyone else take this? Lindsaynickel 02:31, 8 March 2008 (PST)

I took it as Goodwin sleeping on Juliet's couch for a year so he could always say that they don't share a bed but I'm confused about the order of those flashbacks refering to that: first we have the scene where Harper tells Juliet off for sleeping with her husband and after that we have Goodwin and Juliet on the beach talking about why he doesn't just tell "her", most likely meaning Harper. But if he means Harper it would make little sense since she already knows. So either he means another woman or there is another reason for him not sleeping in Juliet's bed to avoid consequences. The weird thing is that he was seen sleeping in Juliet's bed in One of Us. This all looks like a slip-up. Roger 06:11, 8 March 2008 (PST)

For some reason, Juliet doesn't want to tell Goodwin that Harper confronted her about the affair. I think Harper had Goodwin sleeping on the couch because she had known about the affair for a year, but Goodwin didn't realize she knew that, just that she knew something was up. But he didn't want to come out and actually tell her what it was. I didn't realize how many way this could be taken...just one of the many things on LOST that can be taken in multiple ways! Lindsaynickel 13:50, 8 March 2008 (PST)

I took it to mean that Goodwin and his wife were already having problems and that Harper wouldn't really care that he was having an affair. I'm fairly certain he's referring to sleeping on his own couch, not Juliet's. I also think Goodwin is referring to Harper when he says, "Let's tell her." He doesn't know Harper already knows about the affair.Outpost road 16:56, 9 March 2008 (PDT)

It's a really good point from both of you that Goodwin doesn't know Harper already knows! I took it for granted that Juliet told him about her clash with Harper, for they are lovers and all... And this means she lies to her lover for no appearent reason other than maybe her fear that Goodwin would leave Harper completely in the light of this and so Ben would notice the whole affair, which Juliet is afraid of as well. That cleared up alot for me, thanks! Roger 14:29, 10 March 2008 (PDT)

I think you're all right that Goodwin doesn't know that Harper knows. What he says to Juliet is, "It's ridiculous. I've been sleeping on the couch for a year. Why am I not just telling her?" But this points up a contradiction in the article: Recurring Themes says that "Goodwin and Harper had been sleeping in separate beds for a year when he and Juliet began their affair," but the Flashback section says, "his wife already knows (he has been sleeping on the couch for over a year)." The first statement is clearly wrong--Goodwin refers to the "year" at some point well into the affair--and the second makes the assumption that the reason Goodwin is sleeping on the couch is because of the affair. We don't know that; they may have been estranged before the affair began. Goodwin doesn't object to Juliet's characterization of Harper as "a mean... and spiteful person" during their first encounter over the chemical burn. Plus, if the reason for Goodwin sleeping on the couch is the affair, then "just telling her" would be pointless; Goodwin would already know that that's the problem. I'm going to edit these two sections if nobody has any objections.--Schoolmann 09:01, 29 August 2008 (PDT)

The Harper Blooper ?

• When the Others watch the crash of Oceanic Flight 815 from the Barracks, Harper is standing near Goodwin. However, when the same scene was shown in "A Tale of Two Cities", no one was standing between Goodwin and Ethan. is this really a true blooper ? Harper is just like Paulo and Nikki, she was supposed to be there all along ... she just wasn't. Also kind of like Ana not being seen at the Oceanic ticket counter before Two for the Road no ? --LeoChris 10:40, 8 March 2008 (PST)

Yeah, I agree. It shouldn't really be considered a blooper, just an extended version of the scene. Lindsaynickel 13:51, 8 March 2008 (PST)

• I'd call it a retcon rather than a blooper.--Chesebrgr 05:40, 12 March 2008 (PDT)

Isn't a retcon a deliberate continuity error? It's not a blooper, but it does break continuity.--Schoolmann 09:04, 29 August 2008 (PDT)

Horseshoe

• I think the horseshoe game is a reference to the book "Of Mice and Men". In this book, they play horseshoe quite a bit. Should this be added to the cultural references?--Baker1000 16:27, 9 March 2008 (PDT)
  • Well I added it anyway. Feel free to remove.--Baker1000 14:08, 10 March 2008 (PDT)
• Horseshoes is a fairly common game, especially in rural areas. The fact that they play horsehoes in Lost and they play horsehoes in "Of Mice and Men" does not indicate a very clear reference. Tom and Jack played catch with a football, but it wasn't a reference to "Rudy".--Bonefishj0e 14:25, 10 March 2008 (PDT)
• I think it's not a reference. If someone was accidentally killed during that game, it would have been. But other than that, it has no significance. --     c      blacxthornE      t     12:33, 12 March 2008 (PDT)
  • Except that one of the players, Sawyer, has talked extensively about Of Mice And Men previously (with Ben on Hydra Island).--Chesebrgr 06:15, 13 March 2008 (PDT)
    • Granted. So? The logical connection between "Sawyer and Hurley playing horseshoes" and "horseshoes was played in Of Mice and Men" isn't made less tenuous by the fact that Sawyer has talked about Of Mice and Men. There's no evidence Sawyer said to Hurley, "Hey, Hugo, let's play that game they were playing in that book I read." Robert K S (talk) 07:35, 13 March 2008 (PDT)
• Did anyone else notice that Hurley playing horsehoes had that same sort of feel to it as Walt throwing Locke's knife in S1? Sawyer even asks Hurley how he got so good at horsehoes and Hurley says, "Just lucky, I guess." I think Hurley was channeling the island's power somehow in that scene. It was pretty subtle though.--Steelrhino1 09:38, 18 March 2008 (PDT)

removal of unanswered question

Ben says he taped over the game. This would mean that he himself was filming Widmore.
Unless he made a copy of the original recording over the red sox,
or he gave the tape to somone to tape over for him.

btw, anyone notice that Ben nicely sums up lost?
"some of its vague, some of its guesswork, some of its concrete." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Azam007uk (talk • contribs) 2008-03-10T02:01:00.

I don't think it really means anything. Ben could have just dubbed it from another tape or recorded an incoming transmission. Or he could have just said that he did it, but someone like Patchy did, after all, we know Ben is a frequent liar. --Minderbinder 07:38, 10 March 2008 (PDT)

I thought the same thing, Ben explicitly says, "I taped over it." Was he trying to tell (or imply to) Locke that he had been off the Island recently? Does he want Locke to know or suspect that the Galaga was not the last way to travel to and from the Island?--Gregaich 13:22, 10 March 2008 (PDT)

Also, why did Ben keep this videotape and file (apparently only this videotape and file) locked up in his wall safe?--Gregaich 13:23, 10 March 2008 (PDT)

How many cameras can record directly on a VHS? I can't think of any, the format which was widely used was VHS-C. BeŻet 13:51, 10 March 2008 (PDT)

The tape isn't VHS, it's U-matic which is extremely old and hasn't been used in cameras for years (decades), if ever. It's pretty much impossible that the cameraman would be carrying around the machinery necessary to shoot directly to that tape - assuming it isn't a blooper, the only reasonable explanation is that it was shot on another format and either dubbed or the recording of transmitted video. --Minderbinder 13:59, 10 March 2008 (PDT)

Exacly. BeŻet 14:03, 10 March 2008 (PDT)

Agreed. I would imagine that the original, however shot, was sent via a video link to the island for Ben, possibly via a satellite feed. U-matic was the professional format for recording video in the early 80's, and a properly set up video facility would naturally use that sort of recorder. As for why he record over the red sox, I imagine working tapes are in pretty short supply by now - after 20+ years the actual tape starts falling apart. (as does the equipment, but that's a different issue..) Irrelevant 03:02, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

Presumably this is the tape of the game as featured in The_Glass_Ballerina. Irrelevant 03:02, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

• I'm pretty sure the reference isn't implying anything about who did the actual recording, nor is it necessary to explore what types of tape format and equipment were being used. I think the only reason the Widmore video is on the Red Sox tape is to imply that it is recent. It doesn't prove anything, but it lays the idea that someone worked with the footage during the time period after the Red Sox win was shown to Jack. Without narration, techniques like this are the only way to provide information besides dialogue. Wikistoriographer 08:49, 12 March 2008 (PDT)
  • "the only reason the Widmore video is on the Red Sox tape is to imply that it is recent." I agree completely. --     c      blacxthornE      t     13:09, 12 March 2008 (PDT)
    • While I agree that the recentness is the important point, I also think it's relevant to consider the likelihood that the tape is just a dub of that video - some people seem to think that the physical tape must have been carried off the island to wherever Widmore is (including the notion that Ben must have shot the footage himself), when it makes much more sense that the footage was recorded on "normal" equipment and just copied to this tape afterwards. --Minderbinder 11:47, 13 March 2008 (PDT)

The Temptest

The Tempest was Shakespeare's final work, the last play he ever wrote. Significant? Chasing lamely 14:24, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

• Shakespeare's "The Tempest" involves a shipwreck on an island which gives us the most obvious and only direct (given what we now know about Lost) parallel.

The island in "The Tempest" is ruled by Prospero, the rightful Duke of Milan. His brother usurped his duchy and sent him off in a boat to die at sea. He ended up on the island instead.

Before Prospero arrived the only (live) inhabitant of the island was Caliban. A grotesque sort of person in appearance, he is physically a representation of the idea of a savage. His mother was a sort of sorceress exiled to that island because her people feared her. Caliban was enslaved by Prospero. Interestingly, Caliban is, in a way, the heart and soul of the play. His speeches are among Shakespeare's most beautiful ones and Caliban shows more heart and conscience than the less "savage" characters.

Other "inhabitants" of the island pre-Prospero are spirits (not, necessarily, spirits in the sense of the souls of previously living people, possibly like sprites, it isn't made quite clear). Ariel is a spirit that Sycorax (Caliban's mother) imprisoned in a tree. Prospero sets Ariel free but demands Ariel serves him. Thus, Ariel, too, is enslaved.

Ariel is, in appearance, the opposite of Caliban. His character was portrayed by women, most often, in post-Elizabethan theater in order to stress his beauty and delicate nature (questions about his gender notwithstanding- throughout the play he is referred to by masculine pronouns- he, him- we'll call him a him). His personality is more significantly opposite of Caliban's. Ariel is deceitful, conniving, and opportunist.

On the surface I'm inclined to compare Prospero to Ben, the Others to Caliban, and Jacob to Ariel. I don't think it would stand, though. Ben does seem to have taken over the Others (possibly enslaved, after some fashion) as well as to have enslaved Jacob if we make a huge amount of assumptions in both cases. This would, however, also assume that, if the parallels between Lost and "The Tempest" are to be maintained, that the Others are seemingly savage and evil but really very good in all senses (easy to go with) but also that Jacob seems good but is really not at all. It would also mean Ben would be in complete control and Jacob would have none (though that I can see quite easily being the case). Still, despite how little we actually know of Jacob, I'm left with a sense that he is a force for good.

There are, of course, many other ways parallels can be drawn between Lost and "The Tempest," but, I think, we need to know a lot more about Lost before we can do anything more than randomly guess. --Lanie 05:48, 13 March 2008 (PDT)

Flash Back/On Island

Technically, since the flashbacks were on island, shouldnt it say Flashback and Present day, or something similar

Yeah, I think that would make the most sense and be most accurate. Lindsaynickel 22:02, 13 March 2008 (PDT)

Is this really the fourth episode that takes place completely on the island?

• The Other 48 Days is listed as the first and Three Minutes is listed as the second. Didn't Maternity Leave take place completely on the island as well? That would make this the fifth episode that takes place completely on the island, The Brig the fourth and Three Minutes actually the third.

Unanswered Questions revisited

I have many objections on many unanswered questions throughout Lostpedia. One of them is that we have an "Unanswered Question" about every single doubt we have. I think if the question has a suggested answer in an episode, we should suffice. We're used to doubt everything suggested on the show. But that doesn't mean that every suggested answer should be considered potentially wrong until it's explicitly revealed beyond resonable doubt. If we were to question everything that's not explicitly answered, there would be no plot twists. That's my opinion though, and I can let these slide. But some questions are just... too much. No, sorry. I meant silly. No no, I think I meant ridiculous.

• Who made Daniel's map?

Is this really relevant? This questions asks not how he got the map, but who made it? I removed it and it was readded on the basis that the creator of the map could be very important. I'm, uh... Okay. That's it. I wonder who gave them the gas masks then. Why does Daniel wear a tie? Ther reason could be very acceptable! I'm just not happy that we ask questions that might have some importance sometime, we think. --     c      blacxthornE      t     15:17, 19 March 2008 (PDT)

As someone who strongly believes in tidy UQ sections that limit themselves to addressing unsolved mysteries of the show, I think "Who made Daniel's map?" (or some variation thereof) is a valid UQ. The Island is a mysterious place that few have visited. The outside world has difficulty even locating it, let alone mapping it and returning the map to civilization. How did Daniel get a map of the Island? It's a mystery. When we learn how the freighter people know about the Island and what's on it, the mystery will have been solved. (The question might as well be worded "How did Daniel know the location of the Tempest?"--but that question has an answer: "He had a map!") Robert K S (talk) 20:05, 19 March 2008 (PDT)

Okay then. I have read your UQ essay and I thought about talking to you about it; I think we should have more about the UQ in our policy. Anyway... What I don't understand is assuming "who made it" may be important. I agree that him having a map is a mysterious matter but I guess I don't like the wording. How did Daniel get a map of the Island? Isn't that the mystery? I don't know... I guess I should be happy that it's not "How did Daniel get a map of the Island" plus "Who made it?". I compromise. So, what do you think about Goodwin's chemical burn, why he lied, how Ben knew about Dan's and Charlotte's plan? Do you think we should expect these matters to be resolved in future episodes? --     c      blacxthornE      t     04:21, 20 March 2008 (PDT)

Yes to the latter, no to all the others, but I'm not even sure it can be said with certainty yet that it was Ben who sent Harper. (If it was, there's probably a pretty good theory as to how he knew about the plan.) Another interesting thing to note is that (if indeed the Tempest's only purpose is chemical weaponry and not power generation) Juliet just re-used Goodwin's lie to her on Jack, making Goodwin's lie a setup with dual payoffs. Robert K S (talk) 05:30, 20 March 2008 (PDT)

I think Blacxthorne's point is a very good one. The question about Daniel's map is poorly worded, but for the reasons Robert noted, might not be the ideal example. Regardless, I agree that many contributors feel like anything they might be curious about qualifies as an unanswered question whether it's relevant to the plot or not. I think there's a similar tendency with regard to bloopers. I'm impressed with the ability of some people to spot legitimate bloopers (e.g. Royal Scots Guard recruiting poster used the American spelling of "honor"), but some people seem to think that if it didn't happen on camera, it didn't happen, and therefore is a continuity error (e.g. Hurley said he didn't know Lenny's last name, and then later in the flashback he knew Lenny's last name).--Bonefishj0e 09:07, 20 March 2008 (PDT)

Easter egg?

When Juliet enters the main room in Tempest, she passes in front of a machine labeled "Box Maker". Kinda got me thinking about Locke. :P - Mike West 12:53, 11 May 2008 (PDT)

I think this got brought up on one of the podcasts, and they said it was a prop error, but I could be mistaken.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  01:32, 12 May 2008 (PDT)

This is the second time that Tom appears after his dead. The first time was in Meet Kevin Johnson.--Station7 18:05, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Umm... Okay?  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  19:09, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

• Meet Kevin Johnson is episode 8 of Season 4, Other Woman is episode 6. --Gluphokquen Gunih ▲ 20:09, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

Main Image change

Main Image needs to be changed. New pic would better symbolize main episode plot which is Juliet being the "Other Woman".

-- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  23:08, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

• Goodwin isn't a centric character in this episode, therefore the picture is misleading ... A picture of Juliet alone is, IMO, preferred. --LeoChris 23:40, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

• I agree with LeoChris. Images should only include the centric character, if any. -- Bringlibbyandcharlieback  Talk   Contribs 19:32, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

• Should just be Juliet ... However, the current one of her is awful. How about one of her at beginning of episode, in the rain? --Jonahwriter 08:57, April 5, 2010 (UTC)

Other image choices

I agree that the current pic is remarkably bad. Here are a few alternatives, including an improved screencap from the current scene. My vote's for 3. Those who recognize the scene will know it comes from Juliet's picnic with Goodwin, showing her as an other woman and the "other woman". Her expression also seems vaguely guilty or apprehensive about her affair. --- Balk Of Fame ♪ talk 06:33, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

• 1 and 2 aren't showing up for me, but between 3 and 4 I like 3.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  08:26, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
• 1 isn't showing up, but I like 4. --Celebok 18:34, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
• 3 or 4 for me, as long as the current image is replaced ASAP. --Dharmafolk 01:14, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Locke's group's body count

I just want to know so I can add him/her to the article, who was the person from the Kahana that was shot by Ben?--Makarov29 12:45, July 9, 2011 (UTC)

I assume you're referring to Charlotte.--Baker1000 17:55, July 9, 2011 (UTC)