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If you have a problem with the contents of the Numbers page, then discuss it here. Otherwise, I'll just keep blocking your IPs and rolling back your vandalism.--Admin 17:30, 3 Oct 2005 (PDT)

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On [1] is stated, that Oceanic Airlines was found guilty by a jury and had to pay $4,815,162,342. Because IMHO the website is not a primary source, I'm not sure if this fact should be mentioned on the The Numbers page.--Phatoni 01:46, 26 September 2006 (PDT)

Well, it's a fan site, so it shouldn't be mentioned on this page, it's not canon. --PandoraX 02:02, 26 September 2006 (PDT)

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The definition of the numbers is still off. It should match the Valenzetti Equation page and the Sri Lanka video transcript and read. ..." the numerical values to the core environmental and human factors of the " Valenzetti ...

--CMYanko 13:34, 18 September 2006 (PDT)

_______________________________________

Several facts about the Numbers have been revealed from the Lost Experience which drastically eliminate a lot of theories, and need to be included. Something like this:

The Numbers are the core parameters of the Valenzetti Equation, which calculates the amount of time until the end of humanity. The Valenzetti Equation is similar to the Drake Equation, only apparently in the Valenzetti Equation the parameters are fixed, always 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42. The stated goal of The Hanso Foundation is to be able through research to change one of the core values, thereby changing the equation and extending humanity's lifespan, although what each of the Numbers represents in real-world terms in unknown at this time. --User:Guyanakoolaid

_______________________________________

Binary section?

I was just reading over the Binary section on the page and couldn't really see how it relates to Lost. Some of it is interesting, but probably just apophenia again. Wanted to consult before deleting. LOST-Figg 17:53, 18 May 2009 (UTC)FiggLOST-Figg 17:53, 18 May 2009 (UTC)18th May 2009

As coordinates

What about the numbers signifying coordinates in degrees, minutes, and seconds, or in hours, minutes, and seconds?? The 1st and 4th numbers are both less than 24. The 2nd, 3rd, 5th, and 6th are all less than 60. The main problem is that 16 degrees E or 16 degrees W longitude would be in or near the equatorial portion of the Atlantic Ocean, possibly near Brazil or the countries, of central Africa. Could these coordinates point to the location of another experimental outpost? To a location on the earth exact opposite from these coordinates?

Maybe locate on the map the following coordinate pairs in addition to that already plotted...just to give us an idea...

4° 8' 15" [N or S latitude] ; (180 - 16)° 23' 42" [E or W longitude] ---> four combinations

4° 8' 15" [N or S latitude] ; (180° - 16° 23' 42") = 163° 36' 18" [E or W longitude] ---> four combinations

--BrianSTL 13:52, 18 November 2005 (PST)

re: Great Circle route

But weren't they off course? ...like 1000 miles? Shouldn't the island's location be some distance away from the great circle route? --BrianSTL 09:48, 18 November 2005 (PST)


I think if you look at 4.815 Lat and 162.342 Long you just might find an island. Try terraserver.com (actually the island is about a quarter mile from the above coordinates, but not bad for TV)This is close to the Tuvalu chain of islands. If you take a new look at the Oceanic Airlines site (Disney)There is a newspaper report of a sighting of a plane crash in that area.


But back when these numbers supposedly originated (1970's or before) weren't map coordinates cited in degrees, minutes, seconds? In degrees, minutes, seconds -- each number has meaning, without concatenating them and adding a decimal point -- but then, of course, how to deal with the 16?-- could a different prime meridian have been used? Wouldn't decimalization of map coordinates probably be a by-product of such internet locating sites? Or am I wrong? --BrianSTL 13:52, 18 November 2005 (PST)

I think you have a great point and I agree...but is it not more likely that we might be out thinking scriptwriters? Remember this is just a TV show! As I understand (I could be wrong, it would not be the first time!) Numbers to the left of the decimal are in fact still degrees. I'll keep digging if you do:)

Numbers appear on Lottery in Ireland

This is not a joke!!!!

http://www.lotto.ie/prizes_results/prizes.asp?date=11/11/2005&draw_date=Nov+19+2005

The national lottery in Ireland on Saturday November 19th came up with the following numbers:

04 08 15 16 23 24

Except for the last number (which is reversed) do they look familier?!?!

This is way too wierd.

Possible new number

If you go to oceanic-air.com and take a look at the seating chart for flight 815, it lists 352 seats. If you count the seats, there are actually 361 total. Now this may be because the flight attendands aboard, but if you want to throw numbers into it, thats 9 extra seats, and if you take the sum of the lotto numbers 108 and add the three together, 1+0+8=9. Just some more statistics that are a little off.

  • Some new numbers may be added to the 5th and 6th season because of the Swan Station implosion. If anyone has checked out the Ajira Airways section it is believed that the way they get back to the island is through a flight from LA to Guam leaving on 1/21/2009 at 11:30am and the flight number is 316. In that section you can go to the Ajira Airways website and book a flight and when you enter the correct information it will allow you to pick your seat, well when you click on a seat most of them are not available but certain seats show pictures. On the 3, 4, 10, 15, 24, 34, 35 picks the pictures show for a brief moment and the 37th seat you choose is your seat and then you can print your boarding pass. There are 7 total pictures that appear and the number 7 appears all through out the show as well as the main numbers and possibly in the next 2 seasons the numbers I mentioned above may appear as well, they even might be some of their seat numbers. I believe that the Valenzetti Equation may be rethought out since the incident of the Swan Station implosion.--Deucedub17 06:10, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
    • I have created a page about the number 9. It's mainly about the strong "pop ups" of the number, some are blander than others but I followed all the rules as if it were an article. It can be seen HERE.-- SawBucks  Talk  Contribs  11:52, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Seat numbers

Who occupied the seats with the coresponding numbers on Flight 815?


http://www.oceanic-air.com/images/navi_right_shadow.jpg shows claire's seat number is 97B

Sorry, editor, didn't see the other Hieroglyphics page.

It should probably be linked from The Numbers, but my apologies.

I was in the middle of adding a new page for Push the Button when I got the lock notice. Does anyone think there should be a seperate page dedicated to this ritual?

--Emory 16:21, 16 February 2006 (PST)

The Facts section indicates that the plane had 42 rows, yet some of the passengers were seated in higher-numbered seats, i.e. 55.

Calling for all mathematicians

So has any mathematicians cracked the numbers yet? I know thee numbers appear in much ancient litterature, but maybe the numbers also has a special meaning in math as well.

-- Saivert --

It doesn't seem to be any mathematical meaning with the numbers. [2] --Jambalaya 09:51, 23 February 2006 (PST)


--

04 08 15 16 23 42

15 + 16 + 23 - 42 - 08 = 04

23 + 15 + 16 - 04 - 42 = 08

04 + 08 + 42 - 16 - 23 = 15

08 + 42 + 04 - 23 - 15 = 16

42 + 04 + 08 - 15 - 16 = 23

16 + 23 + 15 - 08 - 04 = 42

someone should add that and that the numbers appears in the stars (i hope you know the thing) in the article ... just curios

--Cool Man 0912 14:14, 26 March 2006 (PST)

I don't know if it holds any significance. I you try hard enough, you can probably fabricate many numbers from a set of other numbers. Noteable is however that its always 2 times a + and two times a -. It's a little late now here in Germany, so I'm tired, but isn't it possible that if you have 6 numbers, this game will always work? Guess now we really need a mathematician.

oh , another german dude :D

--Cool Man 0912 14:33, 26 March 2006 (PST)

Hi there, IAAM (I am a mathematician). Because there are so many possibilities, it is extremely easy to render these six numbers to form basically any other integer you wish. I mean, literally every number from 0 to 100 could be formed from these six numbers using fairly basic mathematical operations. I therefore caution all of you against reading too much meaning into any other numbers seen on the show. Stick to looking for the original six numbers - I guess you can include 108 along with them as that happens to be their sum. Otherwise you have a case of apophenia on your hands - a condition where you are contantly seeking - and seeing - patterns where there are none. Take a skeptical viewpoint and take random chance into account. Number appearing in the stars? Please.

Mathematically these numbers appear to have been chosen primarily for their lack of meaning. They are as random as random numbers can fairly be. They have no actual structure. This so-called "Shaw-Basho Polynomial" is actually a fabrication of the person who first "noticed" it - the polynomial was constructed specifically to generate the Lost numbers and has absolutely no mathematical significance. Neither "Shaw" nor "Basho" are likely to be real people, and it is possible to construct polynomials to generate literally any numbers you wish. For example, you can find a polynomial which directly generates the Lost numbers here. (The next number is 46.) Once again - there is no scientific or mathematical rationale behind what the numbers themselves are. Most likely the ultimate explanation - assuming there will ever be one - will involve magic, mysticism, pseudoscience and/or telepathy. Numerology will almost certainly come to play a part in this too.

Cheers. --SamSim 07:34, 28 August 2006 (PDT)

Actually, I think that Shaw may refer to George Bernard Shaw, the Irish Playwright, and Basho almost certainly refers to Matsuo Basho, the greatest Haikuist of all time. Really has no impact on the validity of the polynomial, which is bovine excrement, but it is... cute?--NotARedHerring 13:00, 20 October 2006 (PDT)

Numbers and the Stars

But what about the numbers in the stars??? --aurora glacialis 14:23, 26 March 2006 (PST)

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/4180/loststars23pk.jpg

--Cool Man 0912 14:33, 26 March 2006 (PST)

That looks like a mirrored version of the big dipper, which can't be seen from the southern hemisphere. What's the significance of the order of the numbers in the picture? If there is none, none of this means much as there's a multitude of things one can arrange with 6 points and have it match to something in the show. --skks 05:57, 27 March 2006 (PST)

the numbers are in the same order as the stars ^^ http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/3170/loststars28dj.jpg --Cool Man 0912 09:05, 27 March 2006 (PST)

Yeah, i got that part, but why are the other numbers in that order? What's the significance with them? What I'm trying to point out is that one can arrange prettymuch anything by fitting The Numbers in first and then adding other numbers afterwards. The same thing as with all the math really. The picture itself looks a bit fishy too as there's a lot black patches where there should be blue. Further investigation is in order! Do you know which episode this is from? --skks 14:56, 27 March 2006 (PST)

i hope i understand you right^^ episode i dont know , sorry.i try to find it out. the numbers are in an order which is like the game Lenny is playing (dont know the english name , sorry)

btw: found that link : http://athensohio.net/entertainment/4-8-15-16-23-42/arithmetic/ more math with numbers :D

--Cool Man 0912 03:47, 28 March 2006 (PST)

should it be added or not? i want an answer :D

--Cool Man 0912 14:16, 2 April 2006 (PDT)

The Big Dipper picture is real. It's from the White Rabbit episode in Season 1 (near the end). Black patches are present probably because brightness and contrast have been enhanced.

--Grandmort 12:16, 12 June 2006 (PDT)

The distortion in the dipper view from the numbers may be because they have been plotted for a different (future) time.

Dmuk § 20:42, 26 June 2006 (PDT)

This is quite interesting. I think it should be added on as a theory to what the numbers actually mean.

--Gateboy42 07:44, 29 June 2006 (PDT)

Proposal: This page gets too long...

I think, this page gets way too long and confusing. My proposal is to seperate it, i.e make one page for each number and revise this article to link to each of the numbers. The combos and theories could of course stay on this page. This would make sense, since some of the number already have their own pages.

Maybe also, the appearances of the numbers should be sorted in some way regarding to significance, but this may prove difficult. --aurora glacialis 05:40, 3 March 2006 (PST)

Agreed, let's get things done. 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42.†††GodEmperorOfHell††† --06:49, 3 March 2006 (PST)

Great. Should we move the entries of the list in "Appearances" to the appropriate number sections? --aurora glacialis 03:16, 7 March 2006 (PST)

The numbers are said to make some autistic kids cry

Huh? Is that a fact? :-S --Jambalaya 14:43, 9 March 2006 (PST)

I would like to know that, too - it sounds very odd. Who wrote that? He should give a quotation for that. --aurora glacialis 08:37, 11 March 2006 (PST)

They make me cry a bit, but I'm not autistic. --Ernest 20:53, 12 May 2006 (PDT)

Alphanumerical shmalphanumerical.

The alphanumerical conversion by Kall2thc, useless. it only demonstrates what has already been said, if you manipulate The Numbers any number of times you can demonstrate any theory you want. The numbers spelling Dharma becomes a too elaborate explanation, it shoehorns the numbers into the letters, too forced. These theories could even be moved to their own article, The Numbers (Fan theories). What do you think? †††GodEmperorOfHell††† --06:56, 10 March 2006 (PST)

I agree - let's move the more wilder theories to another page. --aurora glacialis 08:37, 11 March 2006 (PST)

Ok, if no one will do it, I might have some time and clean this up. I will move the "Occurances" List to the appropriate numbers unless all the numbers occur and I will split off the more wilder "maybe useless"-theories to a new article "Theories: The Numbers" - is that ok? --aurora glacialis 01:26, 15 March 2006 (PST)

More nonsense

Starting with: 4 8 15 16 23 42

The differences: 4 7 1 7 19

And then add them 4 + 7 + 1 + 7 = 19

"Interesting tidbit on the numbers as written on Danielle's papers"

Maybe that's the trick to making them "uncursed". Fours and Sevens can be easily confused. Swapping them around you'd get: 7 8 15 16 23 42 and differences of 1 7 1 7 19


You have the sum of the differences between the numbers - 19.
You know the sum of The Numbers themselves - 108.
Divide 108 by how many numbers there are - 6 - you get 18.
Put them next to each other .. 1918 .. the last time the Red Sox won the World Series before 2004.
~bishnabob

Division by 3

If you take any three of the numbers in a row, add them up, it is then divisible evenly by 3.

04 + 08 + 15 = 27 / 3 = 9
08 + 15 + 16 = 39 / 3 = 13
15 + 16 + 23 = 54 / 3 = 18
16 + 23 + 42 = 81 / 3 = 27
23 + 42 + 04 = 69 / 3 = 23
42 + 04 + 08 = 54 / 3 = 18
Alansned 18:22, 13 April 2006 (PDT)

If you subtract from each number its position in the row the result will be divisible by 3 too:

04 08 15 16 23 42
minus
01 02 03 04 05 06
is
03 06 12 12 18 36

Nikoro 23:09, 27 October 2006 (PDT)

Jack's Hospital Badge

Article states all the numbers were on the badge. Source? This picture, if correct, shows that the number was 75626-67. LOSTonthisdarnisland 22:47, 11 May 2006 (PDT)

Also this picture LOSTonthisdarnisland 22:48, 11 May 2006 (PDT)
  • Notice that the caduceus (The Staff) insignia also appears on the badge. Dmuk § 20:44, 26 June 2006 (PDT)
    • Of course it does. Jack's a doctor. That's basically what the symbol *means*. --Shodan1138 20:58, 26 June 2006 (PDT)

There's no such thing as a claim or hoax in math

Regardless of where the "Shaw-Basho" polynomial may have come from (it may just be extremely obscure) it's still valid. Do the math yourself, or dump it into Mathematica or Maple. It works quite well. My guess is some ABC math consultant was asked to come up with some meaningless number sequence for a show, and after delving through some journals they found this. The other possibility is that the Doug from that page, or some other fan, generated that expression to intentionally create the LOST numbers. Either way, it does generate them; the origin is irrelevant.

No "claims" or "hoaxes" here. That doesn't mean it has anything directly to do with LOST, however. Just a mathematical fact.

Now if he was claiming it to be the Valenzetti equation that would just be... wait a minute... ;) --Beardog4314 14:53, 15 May 2006 (PDT)

You missed the point, i think, five months ago when you said that. The point is that it has no mathematical significance besides generating the numbers; a google search, which certainly isn't definitive, pulls up no reference to Shaw-Basho that is not Lost related. And, i'm no expert mathemetician, but i don't think the method used to derive the numbers is even mathematically sound. Could be wrong on that one, though.--NotARedHerring 13:10, 20 October 2006 (PDT)

The multiplication table

Why is someone adding it to the article? We've already been over this before-almost anything can be produced with enough manipulation of the numbers. I'm deleting the table. -- Ramirez Selvarn 14:07, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

The Manifest

It seems that the manifest is obviously fake. If Claire's seat number was 55F, she would have been in the tail section. That section should be taken out. --Kahlfin 21:32, 28 May 2006 (PDT)

The Lost Sequence

See this link:

The Lost Sequence

--Sowelu 19:27, 16 June 2006 (PDT)

Wow! Very interesting! ShivaTalk 08:25, 9 July 2006 (PDT)
That's pretty cool. Just a coincidence or not? --SilvaStorm

The Farmer

Glad this page is locked, but...

Can someone fix the bullet point under Theories: 42= Molybdenum (Mo) (so that the formatting for the bullet is ok), and move the one about beads on the Mala out of "See Also"? Thanks! --PandoraX / 08:51, 20 August 2006 (PDT)

done -    Jabberwock    talk    contribs    email   - 09:57, 20 August 2006 (PDT)

Henry Gale Links

In preparation for the reveal of 'Fenry's real name, I'm going around changing all the [[Henry Gale]] links to [[Fake Henry Gale|Henry Gale]] links. I think there's a few on here somewhere, if you'd be so kind as to change them :)
--Chris 15:22, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

cool addition

hi, I have something really cool to add about the numbers.

it is said in the article that: "Sum: 4 + 8 + 15 + 16 + 23 + 42 = 108 (1+0+8=9)

Product:4 * 8 * 15 * 16 * 23 * 42 = 7418880 (7+4+1+8+8+8+0=36 | 3+6=9)

Average: (4 + 8 + 15 + 16 + 23 + 42)/6=18 (1+8=9)"

I just wanted to add that if you sum the digits of all the numbers (4+8+1+5+1+6+2+3+4+2) you get 36 too, and if you add 3 and 6, you get yet another 9. and if you multiply the digits (4 * 8 * 1 * 5 * 1 * 6 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 2) you get 46080, and 4+6+0+8+0 is also 9...

how cool is that?!

also 4 - 8 - 15 - 16 - 23 - 42 is -100.


please add it to the page... thanks

That actually gives a bit of meaning to the random 9 in the Fibonacci Theory. Here's something I wrote about it a while ago (I didn't actually think up this theory, someone on The Fuselage did a while ago).

There's a sequence of numbers, called the Fibonacci sequence. Basically, it goes
0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144...
Which you get by adding the previous two terms to get the next.
a,b,c,d,e,f...
c=a+b
d=b+c
e=c+d
f=d+e
etc
Next, you can split up the sequence to get a series of single-digit numbers by doing this...
0,1,1,2,3,5,8,1+3,2+1,3+4,5+5,8+9,1+4+4...
Which will give you
0,1,1,2,3,5,8,4,3,7,10,17,9...
Do it again, and get
0,1,1,2,3,5,8,4,3,7,1,8,9...
Now onto Lost.
0+1+1+2 = 4
3+5 = 8
8+4+3 = 15
7+1+8 = 16
9?
8+8+7 = 23
6+4+1+5+6+2+8+1+9 = 42

Admittedly it's probably nothing but a fun coincidence, but it's interesting nontheless.
-- Chris 10:23, 26 August 2006 (PDT)

Sysops, please add picture

I for one am glad that this topic is locked, I could only imagine the crap that gets edited in. :) But could one of the sysops please add this image to the "Appearances" section... thanks. --PandoraX 08:39, 31 August 2006 (PDT)

SoccerGirls

Girls of a soccer team seen in the background of one of Hurley's airport flashbacks are wearing jerseys with the The Numbers

The meaning of The Numbers

We now know that The Numbers are the core factors of the Valenzetti Equation, as revealed in the Sri Lanka video. --elpaw 14:03, 6 September 2006 (PDT)

Updates

The Numbers article needs to be updated with the new information revealed through the Sri Lanka Video --Nshs07 16:09, 6 September 2006 (PDT)

date of the end of the world

The numbers might also correspond with the Valenzetti Equation by signifying the date of the end of the world. April 8th 2015 at 4:23 p.m. and 42 seconds.

Valenzetti wasn't American. It's more likely to be 4th August 2015... --elpaw 09:32, 8 September 2006 (PDT)

Motion for removal of sums of 9 statement.

The fact that

Sum: 4 + 8 + 15 + 16 + 23 + 42 = 108 (1+0+8=9)

Product:4 * 8 * 15 * 16 * 23 * 42 = 7418880 (7+4+1+8+8+8+0=36 | 3+6=9)

Average: (4 + 8 + 15 + 16 + 23 + 42)/6=18 (1+8=9)


is really less then spectacular. It is simply due to the fact that both the sum and the product of the numbers is a multiple of 9. (All multiples of 9, when repeatedly summing the digits, will sum to 9).

If this is meritous to stay, that is fine, but I would like to bring to attention the fact that this property is not one exclusive to this group of numbers, there are infinitely many such groups of 6 integers.

--Previously unsigned comment by User:Its a spoon on 03:26, 16 September 2006.

  • Agreed, delete: There are many well known number parlor tricks based on such rules. See Wikipedia:Divisibility rule for example. One rule: if a number is divisible by three, the sum of its digits is divisible by three. If you keep summing the digits over and over again, you will end up with either: 3 6 or 9. ALWAYS. It is really that boring.
    • The sum of the numbers happens to be divisible by three. No big deal. It is also divisible by other numbers.
      • Because it's divisible by three, if you keep summing the digits, you end up with 3 6 or 9. It happens to be 9.
      • Specifically, it's divisible by 9, so if you keep summing the digits you end up with 9. NO BIG DEAL.
    • The product of numbers is divisible by three, because you've multiplied it by three (in 15 and 42, AKA 3*5 and 3*14). NO BIG DEAL.
      • Because it's divisible by three, if you keep summing the digits, you end up with 3 6 or 9. It happens to be 9.
      • Because two 3's are included in the product (in 15 and 42, i.e. 3x5 x 3x16 = 9 x 5 x 16), of COURSE the product is divisible by 9. *shrug*. Say it with me kids: it's divisible by 9, so if you keep summing the digits you end up with 9. NO BIG DEAL.
    • The average happens to be divisible by three.
      • Because it's divisible by three, if you keep summing the digits, you end up with 3 6 or 9. It happens to be 9.
      • Of course the average is divisible by three. We know already the sum is divisible by 9. Then we divided it by 6, which is 3 x 2-- only one 3. There's still one 3 left. NO BIG DEAL.
  • Summary:
  1. You could construct many such sequences. The discussion of all these properties suggests that there is something very special about these numbers, as chosen by the writers. The fact is, there is not. If there is nothing special, then it doesn't belong in the article any more than the discussion of how many topological donut holes are in the digits of the sequences, or how many sharp corners in the digits (e.g. "5" has two sharp corners, and zero holes. "8" has no sharp corners, and two donut holes)-- true, but irrelevant to Lost. This is a wiki about Lost.
  2. The article should be limited to what is possibly relevant to the intentions of the creators of Lost. This is simply implausible in this case. If the numbers were all prime numbers or some very special sequence (fibonacci, magic square, etc.), then such a Theory of The Numbers will be plausible. This theory is not plausible.
  3. However, if it is kept the article, then let's write an entire topological treatise on the numbers as well as calculate to the 500th digit what the sum and product are, when divided by PI, or divided by e, or divided by PI AND e, or incoroporated as a constant into a mandelbrot set plot, or the plot of the polynomial when the six numbers are constants in a 6th order polynomial, or... etc. etc. Boring and utterly irrelevant. -- Contrib¯ _Santa_ ¯  Talk 22:14, 15 September 2006 (PDT)

In Light of the Sri Lanka Orientation

There's a bullet that says, "[The numbers are not] found in the first 200,000,000 digits of pi. Interestingly, 4815162343 can be found at the 176,025,488th position of pi." In light of the Sri Lanka Orientation that came out of the Lost Experiense, isn't it interesting that pi contains the numbers with one of the numbers altered? (42 => 43)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Inertia (talkcontribs) .

The sentence should read "The sequence 4815162342 is not found...", because pi is approximately 3.14159265358... and contains two of The Numbers in such a short approximation. ∇ϕ 05:05, 5 December 2006 (PST)

Catwoman ID Number misleading

In "Occurrences Outside the Show", the reference to Catwoman's ID number should probably be dated January 25, 2005 (http://www.silverbulletcomics.com/shop/product.php?a=73956), to avoid the implication that this occurrence predates the show. In fact, I would expect that all occurrences should be dated when possible.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Twinkle2 (talkcontribs) .

Source for the Numbers: Rees's 6 Numbers theory?

I've been reading Richard Dawkin's The God Delusion (great book btw) and came across a reference to Martin Rees and this theory of his:

Our whole Universe is governed by just six numbers, set at the time of the Big Bang. Alter any one of them at your peril, for stars, planets and humans would then not exist.

Sound familiar?!

This seems to be where the producers got the idea for the Valenzetti equation, and the 6 key values (the 6 numbers).

http://www.firstscience.com/site/articles/rees.asp

Instead of describing the end of the life, this explains the existance of life.

The 6 numbers:

1 0.007 3 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 1/100,000 0.7

Somewhat less iconic than 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42... --Piscez 12:56, 1 October 2006 (PDT)

Request to unprotect

I'd like to make the following changes to the External links subsection:

  1. Change "preference" to "reference" in the existing link
  2. Add the following link, which is a more complete listing:
  3. Also correct capitalization as the rest of Lostpedia for subsection heads: "External links" and "See also".
-- Contrib¯ _Santa_ ¯  Talk 20:20, 12 October 2006 (PDT)

Henry Gale is also linked within this page. This should be changed to Benjamin Linus.--KeriCanFly 17:30, 18 October 2006 (PDT)

Also, a statement and link pointing out that Munson - the Yankee's #15 player has the same name as the character in Every Man for Himself would be in order --Kivipat

Danielle Rousseau's Radio Transmission

Somebody should add the fact that the radio loop has been transmitting for 16 years...

08/15 was the model number of the German standard rifle during WW I

"08/15 was the model number of the German standard rifle during WW I"

- thats not correct - 

08/15 was the first modification of the German Army's standard machine gun (MG 08) in World War I (the German standard rifle during WW I was the Mauser Karabiner 98k).

The Difference Equation

I had posted this on the "Lost-TV Forum". http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=412904&postcount=6

Someone had previously posted this and I'll give them credit if I can find the post.

Lets call it the "DIFFERENCE SEQUENCE"

If you take the difference between the pairs of the first five numbers and add them together, they equal the difference between the fifth and sixth number: 4 8 15 16 23 42

8-4=4 15-8=7 16-15=1 23-16=7

thus 4+7+1+7=19 and 23+(19) = 42 (the difference between the 5th and 6th numbers)

This also can be written as:

(8-4)+(15-8)+(16-15)+(23-16) = (42-23)

 4  +  7   +   1   +   7    =   19
...and?--ASEO 07:27, 10 November 2006 (PST)

This shows a relationship between the numbers. Note that on Hurley's Lotto Card and on the outside of the hatch there's a space between the 23 and the 42. This shows a grouping of all the other numbers 4 8 15 16 23 and the 42. The sum of the difference of all the other numbers (19) is the difference between 23 and 42 (42-23=19). --Hatch7 11:15, 22 December 2006 (PST)

apophenia --kaini. 17:22, 12 November 2006 (PST)

the numbers (or lack thereof) in season 3

i don't think i've seen a single numbers reference in season 3 so far. does the destruction of the swan mean the end of numbers references? --kaini. 17:22, 12 November 2006 (PST)

  • Well, as of this date, there are a few of them, such as Eddie Colburn's license, Jack's pager, just not as many. I'll add a few of the combos in. I suspect the writers may be getting as bored of these references as we are, lol. --PandoraX 11:22, 22 December 2006 (PST)
I'm glad I wasn't the only one to notice this... I kinda liked how the numbers were supposedly a big, important part of the whole Lost mythos. So much so they were carved into the concrete of the hatch. I'm guessing we're just supposed to forget about them. Bryce 13:13, 25 May 2007 (PDT)

Out of show

Numbers appeared at at Turkish tv show as a safe code, in exeact order. You can see it here --Mko 08:09, 28 November 2006 (PST)

The X-Files; Mulder's apartment number is 42. --Hatch7 11:14, 22 December 2006 (PST)

Huh?

However, the DHARMA Initiative still, supposedly to this day, do not know exactly what the numbers mean.

They are the core values in the Valenzetti Equation, if we are to take the Lost Experience as canon. What is this sentence getting at? The issue is whether the explanation provided by the Experience is canon or not. ∇ϕ 04:59, 5 December 2006 (PST)

  • I think what the author of that sentence may have meant is that though they are "core values" of the Valenzetti Equation, we still don't know what exactly they define, or why they keep popping up in flashbacks and other unusual places in the show, and thus are still a mystery. However, I'm deleting this line because it's grammatically awkward and confusing the way it's phrased, and doesn't really add much to the information of the article. --PandoraX 11:19, 22 December 2006 (PST)

numbers and pi

"Not found in the first 200,000,000 digits of pi. Interestingly, 4815162343 can be found at the 176,025,488th position of pi"

if they're not found in the first 200 million digits of pie how can they be found in the 176th million position in pi????—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Seanmilloy (talkcontribs) .

Check again. The sentence reads "Interestingly, 4815162343 can be found at the 176,025,488th position of pi." 43 is not one of the numbers. It is one off. --Marik7772003 21:24, 13 December 2006 (PST)
Being an irrational number, pi has every possible string of numbers an infinite number of times. I don't find this trivia to be very compelling, as any string of 10 numbers isn't too likely to appear in the first 200 million digits of pi. Merick 16:21, 14 March 2008 (PDT)

Eko's Jesus Stick

4:8:15 is written on Eko's Jesus Stick, as you can see to the right.
Normal ido-cap0516

I thought its worth to add it in Combos. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lexxor (talkcontribs) .

  • Good catch, I am adding this one, thanks. --PandoraX 11:16, 22 December 2006 (PST)
It's the whole sequence of the numbers, although the angle of that particular screen capture loses the part of the sequence that continues around the curve of the stick. So it should probably go in the "all numbers" section. There's a better picture in the Eko's stick article, showing up to "16". It's probably not possible to get an angle showing the whole sequence, because if you rotate the stick too much in one direction in order to see the last numbers, you start losing the first numbers at the other end. - Cheers 14:09, 22 December 2006 (PST)

8/15 Dates

Jack's wedding date was August 15th, and the date that young Kate and Tom buried their time capsule was also August 15th. Thought those could be added to the "combos" section.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Boquiabierta (talkcontribs) .

Protection should be ended

I don't think this page needs to be protected anymore. I think it was temporarily protected because a few people were adding junk, but there are enough editors on this site nowadays to clean it up as required.-- Dagg talk contribs4 8 08:05, 11 February 2007 (PST)

Gotta agree, isn't the whole point of a wiki is that anyone can edit? Shouldn't really be dictated what can and cant be edited, as Dagg said the site has many editors that will keep a watchful eye. --lewisg 08:07, 11 February 2007 (PST)
I agree too, get this opened up. Some of it seems slightly outdated, I may have missed it but is there even a mention that they are the core values of the Valenzetti Equation, I have to admit thoug I only scanned over it so I could be wrong. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lostgeek joe (talkcontribs) 16:21 UT, 11 February 2007.
Tis done, no real reason why it can't be open for edits --Nickb123 (Talk) 08:31, 11 February 2007 (PST)
  • First paragraph, Nick, the Valenzetti E. has been up there since TLE mentioned it. Also, I do agree with the original locking, it was definitely needed, and requested by many regular (nonsysop editors) because people were editing in garbage like "I saw a billboard with the numbers that added up to ___", really irrelevant. I think we do have a lot of really good regular editors who will try to avoid that lately, but if it gets to that point again, it'll be locked again. The numbers as a string occur not that frequently in show mythology, and the individual numbers are unlocked pages. --PandoraX 10:37, 11 February 2007 (PST)
  • Right... and irrelevant crap is added to articles all the time, which we remove. I get that at a time when recurrent bad edits are done, locking should be carried out to allow a cooling period, but there's little point permanently protecting a main article of this kind. I've been removing bad content from Room 23 and Not in Portland several times a day at the moment - its part of the job - so there's no reason why we can't just remove irrelevant items when they are added. --Nickb123 (Talk) 10:49, 11 February 2007 (PST)
  • I just wanted to mention that I personally appreciate all efforts to refrain the permanent protection of pages.-- Dagg talk contribs4 8 11:01, 11 February 2007 (PST)

Remark regarding _how_ the numbers are entered

I've always thought it weird that when Locke was first told to enter the numbers (by desmond), he automatically assumed that they should all be on one line and interspersed with spaces. Desmond does not instruct him on this. Nor does Locke instruct Benjamin/Henry about the proper procedure. Methinks that both Desmond's and Locke's assumption is odd: if somebody would instruct me to enetr numers, I'd either do 'enter' after each or assume that I wouldn't need to space them. - Karin Spaink 13:50, 14 February 2007 (PST)

He says "type in exactly what I tell you -- exactly, nothing else. 4, 8, 15... Did you hear that?" ... "Right, 16, 23, 42. Now press execute.". He does instruct him on this. And he instructs him to enter the numbers in the proper procedure. How more clear could it be? This was the episode, have a look at the transcript.("Adrift")  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  14:07, 14 February 2007 (PST)

You describe Desmond's instructions. Locke doesn't instruct Henry/Ben in the same manner, so that still stands. But even in the Desmond & Locke situation, the description is _not_ accurate. If somebody would instruct me to type 'exactly, nothing else' what they dictate and then proceed to give me numbers, I'd start typing '48', not '4 space 8 space'. There is no instruction for spaces, yet everybody in Lost assumes them and puts them in. - Karin Spaink 15:55, 14 February 2007 (PST)

  • That's why a little suspension of disbelief is required for a TV show, even one that is as contingent on details as LOST.

Deaths

Has it been touched upon how on the days of the numbers people tend to die or at least almost so?

  • Day 4, Mr. Mars croaks.
  • Day 8, Jack is almost killed by a cave in.
  • Day 15, Claire is attacked (O.K so she isn't nearly killed but still it's pretty grim asulting a preggers woman).
  • Day 16, Charlie is hung from a tree and very nearly dies.
  • Day 23, Nathans neck gets turned into a turkey twizler.
  • Day 42, Boone kicks his bucket.

Can this be like added to the main page then?Princess Dharma (banned)

Well to be fair Jack, Claire, and Charlie are all still alive, so I'd say no. --Mr. Crabby (Talk) 06:05, 10 March 2007 (PST)

Die or at least almost so I said and Charlie was very nearly strangled and Jack was very nearly crushed and he came pretty close to running out of oxygen. Princess Dharma (banned)

Someone nearly dies in every other episode. --Mr. Crabby (Talk) 06:09, 10 March 2007 (PST)

Fine then I don't really give one just a suggestion. I don't see how everytime I make one people have to go on the attack and make me out to be a bad guy. Princess Dharma (banned)

  • He's not attacking you. He's just giving his opinion. My advice: don't take it personally; everyone has suggestions turned down. --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  06:12, 10 March 2007 (PST)

I'm not attacking you and I'm certinely not making you out as a bad guy. If an admin had suggested what you suggested I would have said the same thing. Don't interpret people disagreeing with you as an attack. --Mr. Crabby (Talk) 06:13, 10 March 2007 (PST)

I am sorry then but recently several arguements have erupted over me just asking for the most minor change. I post a theory that Locke may be gay, every Lostpedian online attacks me; I ask Jabr and Marik if I can see the rules, every SysOp there is hates me; I advise Nokia of the rules recently inforced on me, he jumps down my throat. Princess Dharma (banned)

Well, to be fair the problem with the Locke/gay theory was you wouldn't let it go. The SysOps don't hate you, the just want to see that you're following the rules. Nokia was given a 2 hour ban for what he did to you. --Mr. Crabby (Talk) 06:21, 10 March 2007 (PST)

I am not having this arguement here but there was nothing wrong with the gay Locke theory I backed it up well and it had a lot more basis that a lot of other theories I have seen and I'll think being shown the rules before you follow them is a wise option and one I was denied. Princess Dharma (banned)

Drop this now please. Everyone. Before it esculates once again. --Lewis-Talk-Contribs 06:25, 10 March 2007 (PST)

Numbers appear in advertisement in Czech Republic

The Numbers were seen in czech advertisement on TV http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6eIGqgVTrw. Man in this ad wakes up and writes the numbers to a diary --Mroh 12:53, 13 March 2007 (PDT)

Numbers as a DHARMA safe-code via the cable?

The numbers may be a "safe code" sent via the underwater cable (which, via podcasts, will have quite a special importance, lending potential credence). This safe code may let the DHARMA network off the island know that everything is ok, and to procede with the Periodic Resupply Drop (DL/CC have said they will also be visiting this in future episodes). When the Swan imploded, the numbers ceased being transmitted, and the listening station was alerted to this. Naomi's team (via DHARMA) was sent to investigate, ergo the importance of the numbers (see Enter 77). This would also imply that Penny is part of DHARMA. (We know that Widmore and Hanso are somehwat connected, so even this part is not wholly implausible). --AlaskaDave 05:00, 11 May 2007 (AKST)

Just some irony

This morning a 4.2 (42) earthquake woke me up at 4:42.


Other

In Eggtown Miles asks Ben for 3.2 million, that is 23 backwards (numbers) and also $3.2 million is £1.6 million (16) - just shows that you can read anything into the numbers.

longitude/latitude coordinates

I removed the information about the long/lat coords pointing to Kosrae... because they don't. Kosrae isn't even the closest body of land to that location (the Solomon Islands are). Nor is this position on the route from Sydney to LA. Not to mention that there are three other combinations of those coords (north/south, east/west) that equally unremarkable. -Tvb 13:39, 25 March 2008 (PDT)


I just ventured a look at the longitude/latitude after reading the numbers page and suspected Kosrae. Though it is not in the exact location and is off course for the Sydney-LA flight, I think it still bears looking into. The flight was suposed to be off course, so it could have ended up out of the flight path. Also, Kosrae is approximately 42 miles NE of the 4.815 lat, 162.342 long point. Checked out the island, on Wikipedia (not the most reliable source, I know) and it has an interesting history compared with events we have seen taking place on the island. I don't think Kosrae should be completely disregarded. --WomanFromTallahassee23 00:53, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

The "Design"

  • What if the most unlikely and minute circumstances in your lifetime revolved around some reoccurring force? Is it possible that these 6 seemingly random numbers can connect other random individuals? Is this how the survivors connect to one another? With some exploration, the "Design" theory is based on the very notion that connections, whether brief or extensive, have in some way passed through the Numbers. Although, it would be easy to believe that they are bad, there are some ways in which they could also be good. There is no doubt that certain individuals created different interpretations of these Numbers, some believed that is was mathematical (thus, the Valenzetti Equation) and others thought they were irrelevant. There was a familiar phrase from Emily Locke when she tells John that he "was part of a design" and that their meeting was a "sign of great things to come." We have seen how the Numbers were a brief part of his life, but we also have discovered the consequences of that meeting.
  • The real question is where does this "Design" begin?
    • DHARMA = 6 stations = "core numerical values" & "manipulating the environment" = 6 members of the design (Locke...)

Moved from Theories by Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 12:15, 11 June 2008 (PDT)

Flight AF 447

The recently vanished Air France Airbus had the flight number AF 447.

4 = 4 (well, duh)
4+4 = 8
4+4+7 = 15
4*4 = 16
4*4+7 = 23

The last one was a little trickier; but it's there if you substitute the airline designator's letters with their respective ranks in the alphabet:

A = 1, F = 6
AF 447 = 16 447

1*6/4*4*7 = 42

Caveat: I don't want to belittle the death of 228 people, among them several children and a baby. The numbers stuff in it is just an observation of an odd coincidence and probably a simple demonstration that you can work some cabbalistic mojo on almost everything to prove anything and its opposite.

--DHH 10:30, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Are you serious?! -- Dhalia 14:08, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, do the math for yourself - the numbers don't lie, as they say. Constant incoherent babbling, but no Ma'am, no lying.
--DHH 18:14, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Douglas Adams connection

The number 4 - 2 (not sure what base) is the answer to life, the universe and everything. Search it in Google and trusty google calculator will assure you that it is 42. Idk just thought i'd add in some random tidbit... --Deo Favente 17:10, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Proposal for deletion

From the Danielle's papers section:

In episode 18 of season 1 "Numbers" is the first time you see all the numbers together, if you add all the numbers together from top to bottom and then add the sum of all those numbers and then make a medium of that and then subtract 18, the number of the episode you get 108.
4x7=28
8x7=56
15x7=105
16x7=112
23x7=161
42x7=294
28+56+105+112+161+294=756
756/6=126
126-18=108
In this series of equations I only multiplied it by 7 because I couldn't make it look like what I wrote on my piece of paper I used to make this work.

I submit that this be deleted because all it is saying is that 108*(7/6) - 108*(1/6) = 108*(6/6) = 108, with some meaning ascribed to 108/6 (it's also the mean) which could be said of any number replacing 108. (Just choose a new "meaning" for the x/6 part.) One could also just as arbitrarily have 8 rows on the paper and say 'subtract the number of columns squared' to get some supposed meaning, (108*(2/6) = 36 which happens to be 6^2) i.e. 108*(8/6) - 36 = 108. If anything can be gleaned from this, it is interesting that the mean of the numbers (108/6) happens to be the episode number, which could explain how 23 was chosen (as per the Conception section), but it could just as easily be coincidence. --Tometheus (talk) 19:24, September 13, 2009 (UTC)


The Bulgarian Connection

Lottery numbers the same in consecutive draws in Bulgaria:

Bulgaria's Sports Minister Svilen Neykov has ordered a special review of the national lottery after the same numbers were picked in straight draws. The numbers 4, 15, 23, 24, 35, and 42 were drawn on September 6 and again on September 10 in consecutive lottery rounds.

The probability of this happening is 4.2 million to one, mathematician Mihail Konstantinov commented, although he added that such coincidences can happen.

--DHH 14:40, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

number 54

Hi guys, i just started watching Lost this week. And i came to this site to read some things :P (im very curious cant w8 to know everything) and when i was reading this page about the numbers i noticed that 4+8+42 =54 and 15+16+23=54. Do u guys think it has any meaning?

Edit: If u sum 5+4=9, i have seen some references to number 9, maybe nine is important :P. Im just curious :P

Two Japanese names

In the candidates as numbers list, next to number 114 (Yamada) it says that Yamada is the only Japanese name on the list, but number 59 is Suzuki, which is also a Japanese name.--Storyforce 03:35, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

the number Six

Can there be an addition to note significant occurrences of the number 6? There are 6 Numbers, there are the Oceanic Six, there is the list of six persons Jacob gave to Ilana (likely the Numbers). In "The Package" Sawyer predicts they're all screwed "six ways to Sunday". I'm glad to dig through transcripts for more conversational instances, but meantime is that enough to merit a section with some bullets? Duncan905 07:05, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

full candidate section necessary?

Is the full table of candidate numbers really necessary in this article? It's kind of redundant considering it's just a copy of the table and info from the candidates article. I'm going to go ahead and remove it, let me know if you think it should be kept. Blackirish23 16:02, April 5, 2010 (UTC)

  • Please don't just delete it; use the {{Main}} template to point to the "authoritative" list. Ideally, data should only be stored once, anyway.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 16:07, April 5, 2010 (UTC)

Intro Text

I feel like the intro text needs to be meatier, but without becoming too wordy. I had said this:

"They originate from the Valenzetti Equation and have been perpetuated into the lives of several characters through the Dharma Initiative's actions on the Island."

But that was edited. I understand the reasoning, but I think what I had worked okay. The Numbers, as we know them, wouldn't exist without the Valenzetti equation. While they may be natural consequences of the mythology of The Island, the Valenzetti Equation made them into something real, which we call "The Numbers". Otherwise they would just be individual numbers found here and there. The numbers, as a whole, only have their origin from the Valenzetti Equation (though this seems to coincide with the remaining candidates, but this seems to fluctuate)

As for the Dharma stuff, I think it is worth mentioning. Dharma set up the radio tower transmitting the numbers, which perpetuated them into the lives of Leonard, Sam Toomey, the French team and the Swan inhabitants. From the Swan, they entered the lives of those Losties choosing to push The Button, and from Leonard they entered Hurley's life. If not for Dharma and Valenzetti, The Numbers wouldn't exist, but in the sense that gravity wouldn't exist without us discovering it. Sure, whatever their purpose/meaning is would still be around (and the world would come to an end?), but we wouldn't have The Numbers, only their effects.

-- Clayburn talk contributions email 00:10, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

A new section should be started relating to Numbers/Episode references

Even if only coincidence it would be fun.

Examples:

  • Details of episodes 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, and 42.
    • Also, in Episode 108 "Lighthouse", the writers went to the trouble of including even more Numbers references - it was aired on the 23rd, featured Jack (candidate number 23) as a centric, etc.
      • Also, here's a fun little trivia:

LOST will have a total of 121 episodes. 1 + 2 + 1 = 4, a number. Even if you count the Missing Pieces to this (121 + 13) = 134 (1 + 3 + 4) then you still get 8, another number. :)

Sheryl --Somanysnowcherriesfallinginfrance 00:03, April 18, 2010 (UTC) :)

Numbers in The Bible

The 4th book of The Bible, (numbers, ironically) under the 8th chapter, from the 15th through 16th verse talks about the Levites coming before God to be cleansed, and replace a first born son. The survivors of Oceanic 815 were like the Levites, who had to be cleansed, or killed if they weren't meant for the job. The few remaining good ones then each were given the choice to replace Jacob, who happened to be a first born son.

--George Juiceboks Heidbreder 01:19, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

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