Talk:Redshirt
From Lostpedia
Shouldn't the spelling of "Tracey" be changed to "Tracy"? And why is this article categorized with "Characters"? --Tebor 18:30, 15 May 2006 (CST)
Redshirts are characters, albeit minor. †††GodEmperorOfHell††† --17:01, 15 May 2006 (PDT)
Sorry, I'm just being picky. "Redshirts" seem more like a group of characters than a single character. But I don't mean to butt heads with anyone. Just a thought. --Tebor 19:42, 15 May 2006 (CST)
I'd agree. Maybe "Redshirts" should be a subcat of characters? --kaini 17:58, 15 May 2006 (PDT)
Contents |
Research credit
- Adding a note of credit which was overlooked with some of the earlier edits... a lot of the original research into obscure redshirts (and the actors that play them) was done by clayseason1 of Lost-TV, which likely took a great deal of time and effort on her part (link at bottom of page goes to her thread). The original image chart of the 100 or so redshirts was created by her also, and we thank her for sharing this with the Lost fan online community. --PandoraX 06:03, 5 March 2007 (PST)
Nikki/Paulo
Since they have been confirmed dead, can we please add them as redshirts? They seemed to have no other purpose other than to show that the island is still dangerous, which is the textbook definition of a redshirt. Thanks! (Not doing it myself since some people may want to discuss before actually adding them). Belle42 15:35, 17 April 2007 (PDT)
- Good point. As they were main cast, we were always assuming they were intended for more, but now that they have been summarily dispatched, they have now been added to this list. -- Contrib¯ _Santa_ ¯ Talk 18:20, 17 April 2007 (PDT)
- I totally disagree with that decision. They weren't meant to be redshirts, but the fan reaction was negative that the producers killed them just to shut the whining up. Lindelof even said in an interview that Nikki was going to originally get another Expose flashback. My vote is to remove them from the list since they were credited in the main cast for 14 episodes. --Jeff 17:12, 8 May 2007 (PDT)
Articles?
Do we really need individual articles for all the survivors whose name have been mentioned but whose faces we haven't seen, or who have been referred to generically in a group of extras? I can understand the Pilot, Joanna (because her death had a huge impact) Arzt, Cindy, the two tail section kids, Donald, and Nathan, but that's it. And I'm even skeptical that Arzt and Cindy should be on that list since they keep popping up, but I'll let that slide considering they are "technically" the definition. But honestly, there shouldn't be an article named "frogurt" guy simply because he was mentioned in passing once on the show. --Jeff 17:13, 8 May 2007 (PDT)
Proposition
And let me stress this is mere proposition.
If we need to use the term "redshirts" in Lost, then:
- the definition should be made clear inside Lost's universe;
- only then the origins of the term should be pointed;
- producers' notes on the subject;
- some examples;
- some sort of hierarchy, so people would know the characters the right way. I'd say "background people/extras" (they're just there), "redshirts" (noticeable by name reference, recurrence, I don't know), "guest stars" (one-timers, onscreen credit), "recurring characters" (multiple appearances as support, with lines, relevance and onscreen credit), "main cast" - if I get it right. If not, please remember this is a proposition.
This scheme works for me better than the mess this article is right now, and it reminds me more of an (as objective as possible) encyclopaedia... -- -. Grillage .- 17:16, 20 May 2007 (PDT)
- See Background_cast#Clarification_and_definition. The definitions there are clear. Take what you need and adjust this article, which probably will involve pruning. The problem with "redshirt" is that beyond its definition of a stock character type, it also has numerous imprecise fan definitions in various genres, including within the fan universe of Lost. Probably the cleanest way is to create only a minimal article here noting these issues (with references when appropriate), and dropping it at that, without any extensive lists. Otherwise this article would be redundant with other existing, and more clearly defined, articles.-- Contrib¯ _Santa_ ¯ Talk 17:23, 20 May 2007 (PDT)
- OK I'm basically done. I moved over all content specific to background to the background cast article. The definition as a stock character type that dies has been clarified-- see also the Damon Lindelof interview regarding this distinction where he contrasts the midsection background from redshirt stock (note: the interview is now in the background cast article's Commentary subsection). Also removed any official status to conflicting and inconsistent fan definitions, other than to note such inconsistency: therefore also removed the lists of characters as these depend on such definitions (since most characters on the list have not immediately been killed by devices in the Lost storyline). -- Contrib¯ _Santa_ ¯ Talk 17:49, 20 May 2007 (PDT)
Thanks, Santa. As required, I took the time to give it a shot too, narrowing the definition, expliciting the "alternative" usage and all, with some additional moving and cleaning up. Please, see background cast as well. -- -. Grillage .- 23:19, 20 May 2007 (PDT)
Merge with Archetype
- Disagree - The differentiation between a "stock character" (such as a redshirt) with an archetype for mythology through the ages is an important one. In short, archetypes help analyze how myths or stories work in a universal way that applies to all myths. Stock characters are more specific writing short cuts, but are not universals. Also, redshirts in particular have some specific outside references from TPTB that merit its own article. -- Contrib¯ _Santa_ ¯ Talk 20:55, 21 October 2007 (PDT)
- Starting a discussion to get Redshirt merged with Archetype. It seems like a good idea to me, since a Redshirt is a modern day literary archetype, like magical negro, Unseen character, and Christ Figure. Perhaps we should get all of those merged. -- Dagg talk contribs4 8 20:57, 21 October 2007 (PDT)
- Disagree The term redshirt has been used by the writers and even referenced on the show. -- Sam McPherson T C E 11:34, 8 March 2008 (PST)
- Keep. There seems to be enough material to warrant a separate article. If it's fluff that's removable, then merge. -- LOSTonthisdarnisland 21:47, 21 March 2008 (PDT)
