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Talk:Psychology Orientation test video

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Please let me know if you have more images that are NOT in the montage collection image yet, I may include them. Also, if you can be any more specific about any of the images.

--PandoraX 23:06, 19 June 2006 (PDT)

Image Interpretation

I cleaned it up a bit. Please don't speculate too much on the main page, add it to discussion if you are just guessing what an image is. Some of these are more obvious when you look at the larger ones (for example, the food pantry is definitely a food pantry, not medicine vials; there are separate medicine vials).

I agree. I think we should avoid describing each image within the article. The article should only point out significant factual information relating to the images. We could note observations like the image of Alvar Hanso, the recurrence of polar bear images and swans and so on. But on the whole, we should avoid telling people how they should interpret each image, or the film in general. --Nigedo 08:42, 21 June 2006 (PDT)

Images Format

Why are the images out of order on the image here? Would it not be more convenient to have them in order?--Kericanfly 20:43, 20 June 2006 (PDT)

It might make sense to divide the pictures into groups by the Dharma areas: meteorology, psychology, parapsychology, zoology, electromagnetism, and utopian social (engineering?)".--Techiedavid 21:11, 20 June 2006 (PDT)

I agree with Kericanfly. It seems best to present the images only as they appear in the film, to avoid any bias in the way they are presented, or by reorganising them. --Nigedo 08:42, 21 June 2006 (PDT)

The images are out of order in that document because they were very difficult to compile initially in order, since automatic screencaptures would only catch certain images, and then the next auto capture round would catch several more. If you would like to take on the project of reordering them and numbering them sequentially, you're welcome to do so, just know that that particular project took me about 2 hours to sort through all 114 images from 3 separate sets of people (each who ran their decompilers more than once).

--PandoraX 10:11, 21 June 2006 (PDT)

I've looked into that whole situation again. I used vncrec to record the video being played by the stand-alone flash player running in an vnc server. I then used

VNCREC_MOVIE_FRAMERATE=50 VNCREC_MOVIE_CMD="convert xpm:- dirwithimages/image-%05d.png" vncrec -movie test.vncrec

to convert that recorded stream into a series of frames. Note that the frame rates of the different components (flashplayer, vnc, vncrec) are not locked to each other, so I choose to use quite a bit of oversampling here. I then weeded out the exact duplicates with some unix magic:

cp `find dirwithimages -type f | xargs md5sum | sort | rev | uniq -f 1 | rev | cut -d " " -f 3` uniques/

This gives me a directory of files with not too many duplicates which are at least guaranteed to be in correct order, though the quality might be somewhat lacking at times. I still have to manually sort out duplicates (e.g. the same still image with different 'noise' from the 'film' in the 'projector') in consecutive files, but that is not too hard a task.

I then looked into the question of how many stills there really are: The antiuser.org picture has 109, but the last 8 are equal to the first 8 (with less luminosity, due to the 'projector's lamp not being at temperature yet). Also the boar is duplicate (eight row, to the right) in that montage, so there are only 100 unique images in there. At least in the first half of my screenshots I have 103 images. I then compared my series with the antiuser one and found that there seem to be exactly 108. Media:OrientationTrainingIssuesVideo.jpg therefore has some duplicates: 112 (right at the beginning in the original order) is 86 (originally in the middle), 113 is 111, 114 is 82, 88 is 105, 34 is 65, 109 is no still at all, and there is probably one other thing I'm currently missing.

--Henryk 21:21, 29 April 2007 (PDT)

Ah, there's an even better way: Decompile the .swf file to extract the .flv movie. Then use mplayer -vf screenshot on that file, press S to start recording screenshots and voila, you get all images in the exact correct order with no image missing (however, each frame is repeated, alternatingly two or three times). I've sorted through them and am now absolutely certain that there are 108 stills. These are repeated in order two times, then there are six black frames (what you have as 109), followed by an incomplete run of the first 105 stills. The complete sequence of all frames is approx. 25 MB big. I have made a thumbnail compilation available at http://shiny.ploetzli.ch/~henryk/5f4172777068a8ec3370e327d641a4b9/allimages.jpg (big, 3.1MB) so you can see the repetition for yourself. I've also uploaded an extracted set of the 108 unique stills to the wiki at Image:OrientationPsychologyStills.jpg. (Note that these were scaled down by gthumb because I couldn't find a different easy way to create such compilations. I have the original 448x352 images, if somebody knows of a better way.) --Henryk 19:12, 30 April 2007 (PDT)

Improving Article

I am keen to clean this great new article up and add more info. I don't think descriptions of all the images are necessary since people can examine them and decide for themselves what they represent. One person's opinion of what an image contains may not be another's, so the speculation section below seems the best place to keep most observations. Is it possible to upload .swf files to LostPedia? If so, I can upload the original of this film for people to watch here. There is more factual information we can/should include in this article - the copyright notice at the end of the film (I'll get a screen cap), note the factual observation that the montage appears to include the Hanso 'official' image of Alvar Hanso despite the apparent age of the film etc. Let me know what you all think please. --Nigedo 08:33, 21 June 2006 (PDT)

Very good idea. Should we move the list here then? --Kericanfly 08:38, 21 June 2006 (PDT)

Yes I think we should, but let's see what others think too. I updated the article with some new images. Pics of everything shown in the film are now shown in the article. --Nigedo 09:34, 21 June 2006 (PDT)

This is a good idea, I agree. I think there's just too much speculation on the main page (instead of just description from the larger image of OBVIOUS facts), yet you can't really stop people from doing it. I moved the list below.

BTW, the initial list IS factual... I'm not basing it off of tiny thumbnail captures, but rather the clearer flash-decompiled images, which are too large to include.

-PandoraX 10:15, 21 June 2006 (PDT)

They may seem to be factual but they are still interpreted. What one person labels as an "army soldier" may just as well be a man in combat fatigues. This description is misleading. IMO, it is better to avoid publishing a numbered list of descriptions of each still within the article and only to point out obvious facts - such as which images have also been discovered elsewhere, so that what they depict can be corroborated. It's not a question of how well you describe a still, you still have to make a choice about what information within the still you interpret as relevant. --Nigedo 10:31, 21 June 2006 (PDT)

BTW, the army soldier was one that was not written by me. I didn't catch it when I went through and deleted speculation from the list. I agree with what you are saying in general about interpretations of "description"... often, fact and speculation are confused at lostpedia, and I think it is a good idea to not open it up as an opportunity for further confusion.

--PandoraX 14:22, 21 June 2006 (PDT)

Cleanup

I've tidied this article a fair bit and added new commentary and images. I'm going to go ahead and remove the "clean up" banner now. If anyone still feels it needs to be cleaned up, please nominate it again. --Nigedo 12:54, 21 June 2006 (PDT)

Speculation about individual images in the montage of stills has now been moved to List of images in Psychology Test Orientation Video. --Nigedo 22:48, 26 June 2006 (PDT)

Missing Images

There is an image at [1] (left side, 5th from bottom) that isn't (or I am blind) on the numbered one here. It may be important as it looks like a sea platform with a space elevator which is mentioned in the clues: The Lost Experience clues/June 14 Found 08:43, 21 June 2006 (PDT)

Nope, I have that one, it is #40, look again. I should have all the images from the larger image, which is missing 5 images from my collection (other issue is that one duplicates the boar pic).

--PandoraX 10:22, 21 June 2006 (PDT)

List of images

Why was the list of images cut from this page? Can we maybe restore at List of images in Psychology Test Orientation Video? Jengod

  • I think that would be a good idea. --Cool Man 0912 15:06, 22 June 2006 (PDT)
    • DONEJengod 15:15, 22 June 2006 (PDT)
      • Good Job :D --Cool Man 0912 16:10, 22 June 2006 (PDT)
        • Not a bad idea, since having it separate minimizes the random speculation changes... at least I hope.  :) I just don't want it to turn into people editing in "I see a bunny rabbit in the blur"... "No, I see Alvar Hanso building a UFO", etc. (all fine for Discussion and Theories) --PandoraX 17:24, 22 June 2006 (PDT)

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