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Talk:Portal:Supporting Characters

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OK guys, just ban me when your ready. Im new this wiki stuff - although i do work php/mysql and smarty - enough small talk.

i thought i would put my info in the discussion area and let an admin take care of putting it in the right place.

THF.org board of directors

  • jacob vanderfield - picture
  • liddy wales - question mark image like hugh mcintyre
  • lawrence peck - picture
  • dick cheever - picture

thats all i got for now Rxhector

I'm on it. You can go ahead and try to edit stuff, just use the preview button and if you cant get it to work dont save it and click cancel.image: kman.png       talk contribs                   17:52, 20 May 2006 (PDT)

Is there any rhyme or reason to this?

Aaron? Vincent?

IMHO, this should be a list of supporting cast- Rose, Bernard, Daniel, Ms Klugh, etc. Dogs and babies and cameos like the degroots shouldn't count.--Piscez 05:55, 17 August 2006 (PDT)


including vincent and aaron is not too bad but radzinsky? He has been mentioned in two episodes and has never even appeared in the show. There is no way he can be called a supporting character.
The same goes for the de groots. does a 5 second appearance in an orientation film make them supporting characters?
I also think that Charles Widmore should be put into the flashback characters section until we learn more about him and he gets more screen time.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thunderous503 (talk • contribs) 23 August 2006.


I'm not sure what the purpose of this page is supposed to be. From the looks of it and from the name of the page, we can perhaps guess that the person who started it wanted to provide a list of links to all characters articles, with the exception of the main characters of the show, but including every other article for a character, from the show, from TLE, and from books, and they seem to have used the term "supporting character" for any character that is not a main character of the show. Anyway, if you start deleting links to articles for characters that you consider too minor characters of the show, then what you will be left with is a list of links that will be exhaustive for articles about all characters, however minor, from TLE and from the books, but that will be incomplete for articles about non-main characters from the show. That wouldn't seem to make much sense. This page probably duplicates information available in categories and in other articles, so the first question is: does it have a use and what is it supposed to be? If there's an answer to this and it's meant to be an exhaustive repository of links to all minor and non-main character articles, then we probably should not wildly punch holes into this list by deleting links to articles that do exist. On the other hand, if for some reason it's supposed to be only a partial list, then someone should find a good reason why it should list all articles for minor characters from TLE and from books while it would incompletely list only some articles for non-main characters from the show. Cheers 03:34, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

Pictures

Should we add pictures to this portal, just like all the other portals? Obi-Dan Kenobi 11:36, 2 September 2006 (PDT)

No Henrik?

Why is Mathias listed in this section but not Henrik? They were both at the listening station, and they both shared the same amount of air time. I belive that he USED to be in this section but ... was removed? Accidentally?

Can somebody restore him?

--Frankie Viturello

I readded him, not sure why he was taken off if Mathias is there... it's for consistency. Also, I took off Christian Shephard. He's already covered in flashbacks, and if we add him, we'd have to add Dave, Helen and a number of other flashback characters. (True, Kelvin and Penelope also appear as flashbacks, but they also appear in real time... well, Kelvin is debateable, IMHO); Christian and Dave appear but it it debateable whether or not they are hallucinated/paranormal. It's a fine line, I guess. --PandoraX 12:55, 29 October 2006 (PST)

Survivors in the Background / Extras

Is there a compilation of screenshots or bios of the survivors that lurk in the background of the show anywhere?

Paulo and Nikki

They need to be moved into the Main Charactors portal. They are, after all, up and coming main charactors to the show. they are even credited as such. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Quint (talk • contribs) .

Three should be added

I know Christian Shepherd was removed, but I think he should be returned, along with Anthony Cooper and Yemi. The reasoning is simply that they aren't just flashback characters, they have also appeared, in one form or another, on the island. Plus, Shepherd has appeard probably the most of any non-Other guest star.--Jeff 20:09, 3 April 2007 (PDT) Cooper definitely, he's alive and real and on the island right now. Yemi is the smoke monster, so maybe, maybe not. Christian is also the smoke monster. Maybe a box for the smoke monster lol or would that be a DHARMA character? Both of them are also dead bodies on the island, which would mean including Adam & Eve, Roger, the other Beechcrafters, etc. --Jackdavinci 18:28, 30 April 2007 (PDT)

Rationale for putting Charles and Kelvin here?

From what I gather, this category is sort of a catch-all for all the characters who do not fall neatly into the categories of Main Characters, Others, and Flashback Characters. But if this is the case, then why are Charles Widmore and Kelvin Inman in this category? Penny I can understand--she has appeared (however briefly) in the present time of the show, so she's not just a flashback character--but Charles and Kelvin have appeared exclusively in flashbacks so far. So what's the deal? The only rationale I can imagine is that they're here because of fan theories that we'll one day see them in the present time of the show; but if that's the case, I don't think character pages should be categorized on the basis of unproven fan theories. So I propose moving them both to the Flashback Characters category.--Timmythegreek 16:57, 5 April 2007 (PDT)

I think the on-island flashback characters are OK, hence Kelvin (especially since he was still alive on the day of the crash) but I don't see the rational for Charles Widmore.--Jackdavinci 18:28, 30 April 2007 (PDT)
After the last two episode's I think it's DEFINITELY OK to leave Chalres Widmore here, because we know for sure he's got a present day Island connection (thanks, Ben) --Jeff 09:10, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Naomi?

Shes not a flashback character or an other or a lostie, she should be here. --Presariocompaq 10:46, 30 April 2007 (PDT)

Agree. --Jackdavinci 18:28, 30 April 2007 (PDT)

Yeah, I agree too. I don't understand why nobody has added her yet. If the likes of Henrik and Mathius can be up here for the sake of a brief cameo, Naomi should be up there too. I know some say the rationale of including those two is that they featured in the only off island real time stuff, but Naomi is part of Penny's team, and should definately be put up there

Another agree. Personally I think Mathias and Henrik should be taken out, with Naomi in. Benn 6 May 2007
I agree Naomi should be added. --Jeff 16:51, 8 May 2007 (PDT)
If Henrik gets to be in here then so should Naomi.--Presariocompaq 08:57, 14 May 2007 (PDT)
Actually, not only should Naomi be added to this page, but Rose and Bernard, who were here just a few days ago. They are not main characters, they are guest star characters. --Jeff 18:45, 26 May 2007 (PDT)

Naomi is gone now? Someone should put her back in. And yeah, put Rose and Bernard here, PLEASE. And I know there's a seperate Others portal, but Ben and Juliet really deserve the justice of being in the main characters portal, too. Can't they be in both?--Alexisfan07 11:24, 30 May 2007 (PDT)

Dr. Candle / Wickmund

A supporting character? He has only made about 5 appearences on the show, and it was only for a brief time. He should be removed.

Agree or Disagree? --Apollo Candy 16:22, 25 June 2007 (PDT)

I would assume this is the page for all recurring characters, and he counts. Corvus lizard 09:00, 5 November 2008 (PST)

Portal:Recurring Characters has all the recurring character appearances on it, so I dunno if we need every recurring character on here, but I do agree that he should be on this portal.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  10:05, 5 November 2008 (PST)

Agree. Candle, Wickmund and Halliwax are roles played by Pierre Chang (portrayed by Francois Chau. Pierre Chang should be a recurring character; the other names should become redirects.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 12:36, 5 November 2008 (PST)

I Say List Them All

I'm new to posting on this site so I don't know all the ins and outs, please forgive my sins. One thing I have noticed about the show is that you never know who is important to the mythology and who isn't. I would personally like to see something on all named characters not included with the main characters whether or not we have actually seen them. It might help us all in figuring out what is going on. If people don't want it here, maybe another new page, just my two cents. --OolonColluphid 10:48, 18 July 2007 (PDT)


I Say List Them All

TV Guide has recently posted information on 4 new characters for Lost: Lost Exclusive: Meet 4 New Characters. This may be helpful for users interested in expanding the character area on this site.

Tubesurfer 09:36, 7 February 2008 (PST)

Freighters

I say that you should add Charolette, Miles, Daniel, and Frank to this list since they're series regulars in season 4

Just Frank, he's the only one that's a guest star. The others are credited as principal cast by the producers.

Kelvin Inman, Mathias and Henrik out

Kelvin Inman apeared twice, Mathias and Henrik once for a few seconds. Kelvin may of apeared on an on-island flashback but so has ben's mum and like all of the others.

Rose & Bernard and Frank

Hi, I think that even though Rose, Bernard and Frank are listed on their appropriate affiliation portal pages (Survivors and Freighter) that they should also be listed here as well, since they are played by guest stars. So far, only Arzt and Cindy are listed in the appropriate portals (Survivor and supporting). --Jeff 09:14, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Change of template

Was just wondering why this page does not follow the same template as the other pages like Survivor Camp, DHARMA, Freighter . . . and include the "Status Key" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nowism (talk • contribs) 2008-05-16T15:30:44.

Bernard

Where is Dr. Bernard Nadler?

Ji Yeon Kwon

Is it time for a portal entry, beside Flashforward, sub of Sun, for the young Miss Kwon? I know she hasn't done anything yet, but, in point of fact, neither has Aaron. Aaron has notoriety because he's a member of the Oceanic Six, but Ji Yeon only missed being a member of the "Oceanic Seven" by several months; she's only eight or nine months younger than her contemporary. In passing, I have to admit that I don't know where to pigeon-hole her. She's not a Survivor (according to Juliet) and she's not an other.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 13:08, 11 July 2008 (PDT)

Aaron's been on the show for almost four seasons, Ji Yeon's only been seen in one episode's flashforward. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  E  13:15, 11 July 2008 (PDT)
Yeah, but he's still never done anything except slobber on his shirt and drop toys for Jack to step on.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 13:27, 11 July 2008 (PDT)

Carmen Reyes

Shouldn't she be here, under family members? She's appeared more times than David Reyes, and he's there...Corvus lizard 08:47, 5 November 2008 (PST)

Harper

Removed her, as she's just a one-off character for now, so she can't really be termed "supporting". Especially when there are a couple recurring characters left off this page. I figure she can be readded if she comes back. And knowing Lost, she probably will, but we can't know that right now.--corvus_lizard 15:57, 12 November 2008 (PST)

I agree. She did seem like an important member of the Others, but as a one-off character, I really don't think she needs to be added any more than someone like Isabel. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  E  18:16, 12 November 2008 (PST)

Nadia - Dead or Alive?

There seems to be a posting war developing on Nadia's status. As far as I can tell, based on the timeline, Nadia (like Locke) is not dead, YET. I realized those facts may change rapidly when season five begins.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 07:16, 15 December 2008 (PST)

michael's mom and carole

Why do we have them? Margo, Jin's adoptive father, Sun's mother, Emily Locke, Lindsay and many more family members have more or the same number of appereances as them, and they are not on this page. Especially Diane Janssen, she has more appereances than Abaddon, Big Mike, Mrs. Hawking, Cassidy, Leonard, Helen, Malkin, Horace, Kelvin, Henrik, Jae and many more that are on this list. Orhan94  Talk  Contribs  16:00, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I somewhat agree with you, but on the other hand if someone wants to add those other characters, I'm fine with it.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  01:33, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Ms. Hawking, Jill et. al.

Is it, firstly, time to promote Ms. Hawking, who was a flashback character but who now has appeared in real time to another group? If so, what? Secondly. what do we do with Jill (from the butcher shop)? They, along with Gabriel and Jeffrey, would both appear to be part of the "Island Exterior Support Force," a name begging to be replaced.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 03:01, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

How about changing the section name to "Miscellaneous off-Island characters"?  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  06:53, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 18:20, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

French Team

If someone has time, they should try to add in pictures of the rest of Danielle's French team. --Lostbrotha 16:13, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't know if they really qualify as "supporting characters." Danielle surely does, but she's been in several episodes. Montand, Robert, and Brennan all had a few lines over the course of two episodes (hardly notable), and Lacombe and Nadine had no lines at all. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  E  18:13, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Penny

Why is she missing or unknown? We have no solid evidence to suggest that she is anything but safe on Desmond's Sailboat. Anything else is speculation at this point (MaxMoney37 07:36, 19 February 2009 (UTC))

Im changing it.

photos of Radzinsky and Bram

can someone who knows how to adjust pictures center the pics of Radzinsky (who's also on the DHARMA page) and Bram? I have no clue how to do this and it looks awful.

There are more unknowns that we have shown

We don't know where Richard, all the other others, the red shirts and the rest of the Losties like Rose and Bernard are. They should be in the present, but may have flashed with Sawyer, Juliet & that group. Nothing other than not seeing them in the 1977 group indicates thay are in the present. For all we know, they flashed, and hooked up with/became hostiles.

RE:

yes, but this page is for supporting characters. Misc. background Others and extras are not supporting characters, hence why they are not on this page. Richard IS on this page and he is present in both 2005 and 1974... I'd say it's safe to assume he is in 2007 and 1977 as well. Basically, he exists in all times on the Island. Therefore, to himself, he is in the "present".

Change Charles Widmoore

For the reason how Charles got off the island, rather than having just a dash (-), it should be changed to "banished" providing what we learned in "Dead is Dead" Marko14126 02:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

  • Done, shouldn't Widmore be moved up to the "Others" section?--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 02:48, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
    • I agree. Also Eloise Hawking if there's ever on-show confirmation that she's Ellie. --DesmondExMachina 16:34, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
  • Disagree. The portal lists characters as their original affiliations. This is to say, Cindy/Zach/Emma are listed with the Tailies rather than the Others, Alex/Karl are listed with the Others rather than the survivors, Danielle is listed with the Science Expedition rather than the survivors, and so on. Widmore was initially nothing more that Penny's father, so we should keep him in Family Members on the portal.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  18:07, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
    • Then shouldn't Ethan be listed as DHARMA instead of with the Others? Marc604 16:33, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
      • What I meant to say was original affiliation seen on the show. So the first group we're presented with him as being in, rather than the first group he was in chronologically. So Ethan should be in DHARMA. However after giving Widmore further thought, I don't really think we should count "Family members" as an affiliation, so I retract my disagree in his case, because the first "real" faction we see him in is the Others. (As the person who split the portal up this way in the first place, Family Members was really only added to split up "Miscellaneous" because it was getting too big...)  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  00:13, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Change Frank

Since Frank is a member of Ajira 316, shouldn't he be listed under that heading now? Marc604 17:38, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Rules?

Just out of curiosity, are there guidelines as to what makes a character "supporting"? I know the norm on Lostpedia seems to be something in regards to number of appearances, but the appearance of Seth, Harper and Ray Shephard seems to make that null. I guess it could be argued about their importance in the episode they appeared in, but I don't really see the relevance of Ray, and by the same jurisdiction, shouldn't Wayne, Margo, Mrs. Paik, Mr. Kwon, Emily and so on be added? And as well, from Harper's appearance here, couldn't Greta and Bonnie [and probably a few others] all be added?  >: 4 8 15 16 23 42  18:50, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't know if we have actual rules, but characters being important to the story is definitely relevant. As for Seth, Harper and Ray, I've removed them several times for lack of importance, but people kept readding them and eventually I gave up.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  23:03, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Listing

Why are the supporting characters listed alphabetically while the main cast is listed by the episode count? We could see which characters are more "supporting" if they were listed by the same way as the main characters. --Paintbox

  • I agree. It will be good to see what supporting characters has appeared the most. --Ryan76el 16:31, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
    • The only problem I can think of is that this portal is split up into several subsections, so sorting it by episode count wouldn't really give you any extra information because the characters wouldn't all be sorted.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  01:34, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

The recent removal of Nathan and Rupa

I'm not against it, in fact I'm for it, but what does that mean for Harper? Is she important enough to the plot to stay on the list or should she go too? Is the mere fact that she's still alive (and was particularly mysterious) enough to keep her? Illyrias Acolyte 17:52, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

  • I totally disagree about not including Nathan as a Tailie. He was important to the plot of the episode The Other 48 Days, he was with the Tailies in the jungle for a number of days after the crash, he was suspected of being an "Other" until Goodwin was revealed, and most importantly he directly figured into the characterization of Ana Lucia. He was identified, had a name, a personality, a number of lines and even a bit of a backstory. Certainly he stands out as an omission from the list of minor Tailies. While characters like Steve and even Cindy the stewardess appeared in more episodes, Nathan was more a complete character than even them. For the same reason I think Rupa should be in the 316 passengers as well, but it's still pretty early to make a determination one way or the other. He's there, he has a name, he's not dead - why not include him until there's a reason to conclude he's not important? bwallace 18:05, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
  • I'm not against removing Harper. People just keep adding her and eventually I gave up. Nathan was important to the plot of a single episode. I'm also in favour of removing Steve, as he's really only ever been a background character (minus one or two lines here and there). Cindy has been important to the plot of the whole show. If anything that had happened to Nathan had affected anything outside of "The Other 48 Days", I'd have no problem with including him, but his story is entirely self-contained and not relevant to anything else. As for Rupa, the fact that you refer to her repeatedly as "him" or "he" tells me that you don't even know which character she is, which just goes to make my point for why she's not particularly important to the story.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  18:32, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
  • I agree with removing Steve and Harper. Also I'm glad someone removed Ray Shephard from this article as he never actually recurred. -- Orhan94  Talk  Contribs  18:38, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


Supporting Characters Page Split

On the actual supporting characters page, there are a lot more people populating the list than in the nav. I suggest we create a separate page for the characters in this nav, such as Secondary Characters perhaps? 01lander 22:19, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

  • Turn this into a portal not unlike the Main Characters one and put every other notable character in a different portal? I kinda like that idea. It is odd clicking on the supporting characters link and coming here and seeing Colleen and Ray and so on, especially since we finally nailed down some criteria for who is and is not a supporting character (a certain number of appearances). I'd do it, but I don't know nearly enough about this sort of thing to mount such a project. Illyrias Acolyte 21:37, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Honestly, I like the idea of a portal for the characters who meet the criteria on the nav, but what I also would like is a portal for every character who has appeared more than once on the show, which I think is an important thing to note. So I'd be in favour of replacing this portal with the two portal I just described.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  22:26, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
  • I was playing around in what I think and hope is my sandbox and created this: [[1]]. It's a portal in the vein discussed here by 01lander, organized as closely to the Main Character portal as I could make it, in order of appearance and alphabetical when there's a tie and the episode count listed next to the characters as comments. Would it be appropriate for this? And then afterwards, we could make another portal for all the characters on this page that didn't make the move to the new page. Illyrias Acolyte 00:01, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Looks good. I think you're missing a few people, but that's a problem for later. The only criticism I would make is that I think we should just do it straight-up alphabetical because it's looks confusing as is.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  00:14, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Edited. Now everyone is in alphabetical order, and also organized by living/deceased. Below it is also what the proposed 'Secondary characters' page would look like, with all the ones in the above portal removed (meaning that there are two portals in there, the first being a portal for all the people on the 'supporting characters' nav on Lostpedia ending with Tom, and the one below for the remainder). Do I need an okay or a vote to replace the current portal? Should we wait for this 'Secondary characters' category to be created? I'll do it, I just want to make sure it's all kosher first. Illyrias Acolyte 01:47, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  • I still think that the "recurring characters" part (the bottom section on your page) should contain every character with more than one appearance, since we have a new separate page for the more "important" characters. So I think there should be a vote about that, but mostly I think you'd be okay to switch this page with the top half of your sandbox, just put a note in the edit summary pointing people to this discussion.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  02:53, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Done. Am I missing a whole lot of people? That's odd, because I literally copied and pasted the old page and took out everyone who was in the top section. Illyrias Acolyte 03:04, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Actually i liked this new layout, but i think a 'supoorting chracters portal' with no subsections like in the main characters portal could be better. Since life and death conditions may be very confusing in Lost, i don't find the alive & deceased characters sections very useful. Instead we can just sort all the main characters by the episode counts (as i offered before). That sounds better to me. -- Paintbox 17:22, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  • To make this an actual split, would anyone be opposed if I created a portal for every character that has had multiple credited appearances on the show?  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  03:49, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Knock yourself out. I was playing around in my sandbox and made ones for Lacombe and Charlie Hume, and added as many characters with two appearances as I could remember (I also got a bunch from the episode count page) and a few of them don't have portals, like Jill and Mr. Kwon and Theresa Spencer. Illyrias Acolyte 22:52, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Rose, Bernard and Other Character's Status

Why have these three characters' (Rose, Bernard, and Vincent) status been changed to 'alive in the past'? We've seen they were living on the island on the same timeline along with Jack,Kate,Sawyer, etc. , so how do we know that they're alive while we don't know what happened to the other characters living in 1977? (Paintbox 16:09, 15 May 2009 (UTC))

Agreed, they should be 'Missing or Unknown' Blender83 22:14, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

  • And the problem is not limited to Rose, Bernard and Vincent's status. We have currently two timelines in the story to decide who's deceased and who's alive: 1977, and 2007. In 1977, actually each character's status on the island should be unknown. But as far as i see, we assume that only our main characters were affected from the incident or the atomic blast. Assuming that this is true, why are Radzinsky, Roger and Horace deceased while Dr. Chang is alive in the past? Aren't all these characters still alive in 1977?Paintbox 17:30, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Spliting the page into "Characters in 1977" and "Characters in 2007" would be the way to go, but that may be too confusing. Blender83 00:12, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Episode count

I fixed the order of characters based on episode count, as there were a few errors there. In all instances, I went based on the number of appearances, so please check there before anyone changes it back. (In the case of an appearance "tie," the tied characters were ordered alphabetically.) Also, I tried to add in the important characters with 5 appearances (Anthony Cooper, Carmen Reyes, Goodwin, Arzt, Yemi, Nadia, and Bram), but I couldn't figure out how to add anyone new. I think the requirement should be dropped from 6 appearances to 5 appearances, as all of these characters made a huge impact on the show. Also, can someone add in the Monster to the portal? -- it appeared in 14 episodes. Marc604 23:02, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

  • We had actually discussed doing the order based on episode count, but ultimately decided on alphabetical. I actually do agree with adding characters with 5 appearances. But I think we should get some other inputs first.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  23:13, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
  • When I looked at it today, it was listed in order of appearances (with mistakes), and not alphabetically. All I did was fix the errors. Marc604 23:44, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
  • When making the page, I just referred to their Lostpedia articles at the time. Also, as I said to Paintbox on my talk page, I only included people from the Nav: Supporting Characters page. If we do end up adding or subtracting people, we should talk about it there as well, or at least change that page too. Also, I'm against dropping it to five, and I'm actually for raising it to seven to get rid of Roger. There's too many people on this page/in the Nav as it is, and I don't want to make the situation any worse.Illyrias Acolyte 23:22, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
    • It's interesting that you think 27 characters is too many, Illyrias. There's 25 on the Main Character page, and there are a lot more supporting characters on this show than that. Marc604 23:44, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
      • Maybe it's Stu and Roger hanging off the end there that makes it look like there are too many. I'm sure some people you mentioned, like Bram and Nadia, will be upgraded to six appearances soon enough, but I don't know, I say we keep it simple for now. Actually, if it were my choice, I'd bump the count needed up to ten or eleven to only include people who are really important, but I will of course go with the majority. Illyrias Acolyte 00:00, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Illyrias, although i share your idea about keeping this portal simple i think in this case Marc is right. We should find a way to include some of the important characters such as Jacob, Anthony Cooper, Bram and Nadia. Otherwise this portal would not provide enough information. I know it doesn't sound sense, but maybe we can create subsections like "less than 5 appearances" / "5 to 10 appearances" / "10+ appearances". In this way we can continue to see which characters have more appearances, also we can provide the simplicity we all want in this portal.--Paintbox 08:03, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Oo, I like that idea, Paintbox. Marc604 09:05, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
    • No It's already sorted by number of appearances. We don't need to split it into two categories. Frankly, it looks kinda silly this way.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  06:48, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Christian Shepard- Missing or unknown??

Can someone tell me why even though it has been explicitly stated that Christian is dead by Damon and Carlton, we have him as missing or unknown? We dont have Yemi missing or unknown even though he appeared after dying too InflatableBombshelter 05:08, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I think, after having enough appearances, Christian Shephard, as referred to in the Nav, references the entity that we see appear as Christian Shephard, rather than Dr. Christian pre-Oceanic. Thus, the entity is the thing whose status is unknown, rather than the "real" Christian Shephard ("real" in quotes because it's entirely possible that these are the same two entities, but we can't be sure).  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  06:43, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Should Jacob and Jacob's nemesis be added to this page? We've heard about Jacob for three seasons although his episode count is 4, and Jacob's nemesis appeared in one episode and in Locke form in 5, and he'll obviously have a bigger role in season six now since Jacob's dead.

The recent addition of Matthew and Jason

I'm not saying they should or shouldn't be on here, but the page used to contain only those characters from the nav. For the sake of consistency, I say we either add those two Others to the Supporting Characters nav or take them out of here. That is all. Illyrias Acolyte 00:45, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

agreed... this "6+" episodes thing doesn't work... Jason and Matthew are irrelevant, most people don't even know who they are. Characters like Jacob, Bram, Nadia, even Anthony Cooper, Mr. Paik, Jacob's Nemesis, etc...I understand we are trying to do this for simplicity's sake, but I think any "important" characters should be accessed from the sidebar menus, so upping the number to 10+ won't work either b/c that will exclude even more characters. Nikki and Paulo are completely irrelevant and are on the main characters page (and I understand why and agree they should be there) but with that in mind characters should be on the Supporting Characters page based on importance, not episode count. Of course, I don't know who to determine that, maybe a vote? I think at any rate Matthew and Luke should be removed and Bram and Jacob (at the very least) should be added... discuss?--Jtmoore 01:33, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

  • I suggested a new sorting method for this portal in this talk page one week ago.(please see above, the 'episode count' subsection). What i said was: "maybe we can create subsections like "less than 5 appearances" / "5 to 10 appearances" / "10+ appearances". In this way we can continue to see which characters have more appearances, also we can provide the simplicity we all want in this portal." It Sounds ok to me, any ideas? - - Paintbox 09:04, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Can't Matthew and Jason be removed under the rule of "characters whose actors have been credited in at least six different episodes"? Weren't most of their appearances uncredited extras? (this rule also creates problems for Chang, I guess, as he's generally not credited, but he is press releases, if that makes any difference. It also raises a big issue in regards to Vincent, unless the sheer magnitude of his appearances can override the rule)  >: 4 8 15 16 23 42  22:32, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Comment If we start listing characters with +5 appearances instead of +6 appearances this portal would list the following characters: Aaron, Alex, Arzt, Bernard, Bram, Carmen, Charles, Christian, Cooper, Cindy, Diane, Danny, Eloise, Ethan, Frank, Goodwin, Horace, Ilana, Karl, Keamy, Mars, Mikhail, Nadia, Naomi, Penelope, Phil, Pierre, Radzinsky, Richard, Roger, Rose, Rousseau, Vincent, Tom and Yemi. -- Orhan94  Talk  Contribs  22:50, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Yes I'm comfortable with that. It doesn't seem over the top to me at all. All these characters have had an important impact on the story, imo, or have at least appeared enough times to earn some credit for it. My only sticking point is Yemi... Are you including his appearances as a corpse? Because I'm not really sure we should count those.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  04:39, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
    • I could go for that, but again I say that we should adjust the Nav accordingly. The whole reason for this page in the first place was so that when one clicked on the 'Supporting Characters' link at the top of the nav, it went to a page that included only the characters in said nav. I determined I don't really care if Matthew or Jason or Scott or Steve or Carmen or Arzt are in here as long as everything balances out and the characters on this page are the same as the ones on the nav. However, if we do end up adding people with 5 appearances, I think we should go with a version of Paintbox's idea, but instead of three categories, just two: 10+ appearances and 9 or less appearances.Illyrias Acolyte 13:49, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Here we go again..

Idea I changed Penny's picture from the one seen In Desmond's time travel from season 5 to a screencap of Penny from season 5. Voting?  ODK  Talk  Sandbox  01:51, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

"The Lie" picture (Season 5)
"Flashes Before Your Eyes" picture (Season 3)


No Personally, I like the Flashes one better, but I suppose I can see why someone might want to change it (to use a picture from their most current season, like the regulars). Illyrias Acolyte 03:20, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes I vote for the one from 5x02. It's more current, and I personally like it more than 3x08's. (But both, in the end, are good pictures for a portal, unlike, say, Penny's picture from 5x14) --LeoChris 03:45, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
No Flashes picture is better shot of penny. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  16:21, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes I prefer the more current pictures and think the one from season 5 is a better quality image.    Jabberwock    talk    contribs    email   - 17:00, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
No While the picture on the left is more current, it isn't of as high a quality as the one on the right. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  E  19:41, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Yemi?

It says on his page that he's only been in four episodes-Deus Ex Machina, The 23rd Psalm, ?, and The Cost of Living. I didn't remove him, though, because I could be wrong...but should he be on here? --Golden Monkey 17:14, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

I believe his appearance as a corpse in the Series 1 ep Deus Ex Machina is counted as an appearance. Blender83 18:47, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

  • Did we see him during Locke's season 5 trip to the beechcraft? Is that where this mysterious fifth appearance is coming from?Illyrias Acolyte 19:10, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
  • He's listed as having 5 appearances on the Character Appearances page, but only has four in the charts (the four mentioned above). I think I will remove him now, and if anyone can figure out where that fifth appearance came from, we'll put him back. Illyrias Acolyte 03:45, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
  • It's claimed on the page for Because You Left that his body can be seen in the burnt beechcraft, but...is he? Since I don't really recall him showing up and it's not noted on his page. --Golden Monkey 11:37, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Jacob and Nemesis

Even though they have only been in 2 episodes I think we should put Jacob and Nemesis on here because they are very important characters, much more important then the likes of Omar, or Bram...
NoJacob's been in four and his nemesis has been in six as John Locke. This portal is a numbers game. Jacob's numbers just aren't high enough. And I strongly advise against decreasing the required amount of episodes to four just to include Jacob, because that would mean we'd have to include Cassidy and Ray. His nemesis should be on here though, but I don't know if he has a portal yet.Illyrias Acolyte 23:00, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes Jacob and his nemesis are the characters who have a huge impact on the story. A character who has a centric episode should be added to this portal regardless of his/her episode count. I suggest keeping the required amount of episodes as five, but including -at least- Jacob into supporting characters list as an exception.Paintbox 10:06, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes agreed that Jacob and his Nemesis should be on this page, Jacob as an exception. We should just note that this page includes characters with at least one centric episode and/or five episode appearances, thus being able to neatly include Jacob, without having to add other, less important characters (i.e. Ray, Gault, etc). I also have to note that many doing this by episode count is not the best idea -- I don't have a better one per se, except perhaps we could simply vote on who to include on this page if it's up for debate? Obviously Richard, Bernard, Rose, Frank, Aaron, etc are givens... but for characters like Omar, Carmen, Sarah... who have little impact, it has to be called into question. Just my two cents. Regardless, Jacob and his Nemesis should be added asap.--Jtmoore 18:14, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Comment Jtmoore, i support your recent addition of Jacob and Jacob's Nemesis, but after some consideration i decided that Jacob's Nemesis doesn't belong to this portal. A supporting character is portrayed by a guest star, but in this case Terry O'Quinn who is a main cast member is one of the stars who portrays Jacob's Nemesis. So currently it's unclear that Jacob's Nemesis is a supporting or a main character. I think we should wait for until the season premiere, so we can decide where to put this extraordinary character. --Paintbox 15:29, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

thanks Paintbox, I understand your reasoning. However, I think there are several important reasons to put him in this section. While he was portrayed by Terry O'Quinn for the majority of his appearances, he was also played by Titus Welliver - a guest star - in his first "official" appearance. Also, he is incredibly important to the story. I think it would be an unjustice to not include him. Really, really important characters should be accessible somewhere in one of the Character Portals... and there is simply nowhere else to include him for now. Also, given his lack of a name, for someone who isn't a hardcore Lost fan, they might have difficulty finding him otherwise. Imagine if you were new to Lost and wanted to know who that bad guy/dude possessing Locke was... it's a very confusing topic and it's made more confusing by his lack of a proper name... being able to find him by clicking on the Supporting Characters tab makes it that much easier. Now, if Season 6 comes around and Terry O'Quinn continues to play him I guess we can add him to Main Characters (assuming O'Quinn is still billed as main cast). Of course, for all we know, he may appear as more than character -- imagine if he's played by Welliver, O'Quinn, Dominic Monaghan, Harold Perrineau, Michelle Rodriguez, etc etc... for all we know he could be Christian too... so he may be played by a multitude of actors. So, with that in mind I think it's best to leave him here for now. He should be in a portal, and this one fits best. Next season I think we can make a better decision. --Jtmoore 22:36, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Jt, i go with you again. I'm glad that we both think all the pages in Lostpedia exist to provide information about the characters. Without the important characters like Jacob, it won't provide enough information. Actually i'm totally against the minimum episode count requirement rule, but knowing that this rule was agreed by a lot of users, i have to take it. And your suggestion about Jacob's Nemesis ("until we learn this character's entire nature, let's put him/her here ") sounds ok to me. Btw, link to JAcob's Nemesis doesn't work. Can somebody fix it please? --Paintbox 14:50, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
    • Reply The rules are "a main character is character portrayed by a regular cast member", "a recurring character is a character that appears in exactly or more than five episodes, portrayed by either one or more actors/actresses" and "a minor/supporting character is a character portrayed by a guest starring or a co-starring actor/actress". The first rule overrules the other rules, otherwise Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Locke, Sun, Charlie, Ben, Eko, Charlotte, Daniel, Miles, Juliet and Hurley would be main and supporting characters. My point is that the Nemesis is, by previous treatments, a main character, as Terry O'Quinn did not portray Locke in the on-island story in "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham", "Namaste", "Whatever Happened, Happened", "Dead Is Dead", "Follow the Leader" and "The Incident, Parts 1 & 2".-- Orhan94  Talk  Contribs  08:13, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
For starters since when does it matter if oquinn portrayed locke on or off island and he did portray locke in "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham", "LaFleur", "Follow the Leader" and "The Incident, Parts 1 & 2".and oquinn didnt even appear in 5x09??? To be honest your argument makes no since because how would in your argument Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Locke, Sun, Charlie, Ben, Eko, Charlotte, Daniel, Miles, Juliet and Hurley all be supporting characters, they are protrayed by main castmembers not guest or costars. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  03:31, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
{{reply))For the record they are portrayed by co-stars too, though as children (Miles is portrayed by Lance Ho, Daniel by Spencer Allyn, Kate by Emily Rae Argenti etc.). It matters because the off-island O'Quinn character is Locke, while the on-island O'Quinn character is Jacob's nemesis. Plus there is nothing to discuss here as the rule is simple "A main character is a character portrayed by a regular cast member". As that is the only way we determine main characters, not by episode statistics nor by relevance to the overall plot/storyline, we must use it as the only rule that applies in this case, and the show is clear when it comes to credits, Terry O'Quinn is a regular, and he portrays Jacob's nemesis. By logic, Terry is a regular who portrays Jacob's nemesis, a perfect fit with the rule that main characters (Jacob's nemesis) are portrayed by regular cast members (Terry O'Quinn). -- Orhan94  Talk  Contribs  06:45, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Look buddy im on your side take a look at past dsscusions but so far not many users feel the same way as you an i do so it doesnt seem like its a battle were gonna win overall i dont see a problem waiting until S6 you know. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  03:44, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Orhan, i share your idea, and that was already discussed in the main characters' talk page (under the "a new main character?" subsection), but most of the users commented that we should wait until the Season 6 to consider Jacob's Nemesis as a main character. --Paintbox 14:50, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Should Jacob's nemesis be listed as alive? It seems more like he should be listed as "unknown" since, from what we've seen, he takes the form of dead characters, making him, somewhat (I hate myself for saying this, but for lack of a better term) undead? In which case "unknown" would be consistent with how we've handled Christian and (arguably) Claire. Additionally, if he is the Monster as many people seem to believe, then could we even categorize him as living or dead? I think it's best to keep our options open as there's certainly something supernatural about him which may prevent him from being categorized so easily.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  21:53, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
    • I think as long as he(or it) remains active like a virus, and takes form of the dead characters (Maybe it can take the form of the living characters,too.We don't know yet) he should be considered as alive. Because that's the way he's living. --Paintbox 07:06, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Characters' status

Why Horace is set to "dead", but Pierre is set "Alive in past"? Isn't also Horace alive in the past?

There's an argument to be made for the old-DHARMA folks being "alive in past", but the reason Pierre isn't set to "dead" is because we don't have anything in canon stating that he's died.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  00:24, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Before the argument that he should be listed as unknown comes up, I'd just like to say that his 'unknown' differs from the way it's used for Claire and Christian. With those two, there is evidence to suggest that they are alive, and equal evidence to suggest they are dead. However, we have no canon evidence with which to make any kind of assumption about Chang. Illyrias Acolyte 00:31, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
  • The same is true for Radzinsky. He's alive in 1977,too. Why is he listed as dead?
    • Radzinsky blew his brains out in the Swan. The "Dead" portal takes precedence over everything else. If two portals apply to one character (such as "Dead" and "Alive in 1977" for Radzinsky), then Dead overrides the others. Marc604 22:05, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

One more thing... Why are Rose, Bernard and Vincent alive, while other Losties in 1977 are missing or unknown? -- Paintbox 11:12, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Rose and Bernard weren't near the bomb-it's unknown for them because, well, they were at ground zero of a nuke. Not the time thing. Also Horace is listed as dead because we've seen his death, where we haven't ever seen Pierre's fate. --Golden Monkey 18:56, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Adding the Monster

The Monster is a character who has appeared in 14 episodes. We already have one non-human character in this portal (hi, Vincent), so why isn't the Monster included in this list of supporting characters? Marc604 22:09, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. Done.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  22:21, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

  • Awesome. For some reason I thought this idea would be shot down from the higher-ups! Marc604 05:51, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

He wasn't included because we only put people from the Nav on this page. We could add him to the Nav, but then we'd have to discuss whether he's dead or alive, or if he can even be categorized into those categories... Illyrias Acolyte 23:18, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

  • Umm, it's a little confusing. The matter is not about being human or non-human. Vincent is a naturally living creature like us, but the monster is undefined. So i'm unsure if it's possible to define it as a character. What if it's a form of energy which is remotely controlled? -- Paintbox 08:57, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
  • Comments made by the producers about the monster tend to personify it. IE: they talk about its motivations, its actions or its history as though it were a character. That, plus the fact that the show tends to treat it as sentient-ish (not the word I'm looking for, but it's late... hopefully you know what I mean) should be enough to qualify it as a character, at least tentatively. As for whether its alive or dead; I don't look at the split on the nav that way: I look at it as being between which characters we know for a fact to be dead vs. which ones we don't. So the Monster would go with the "not necessarily dead" category (which is where I put him).  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  09:02, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
    • "Sentient-ish" I really liked that term:) Actually, i usually don't follow producers' comments, but if you found enough clues that they tend to personify the monster, or its actions such as judging, i guess it's enough to describe it as a character. Monster as a supporting character still sounds somehow extraordinary to me, but it should be okay. -- Paintbox 09:52, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
      • One quotes off the top of my head was something like "the monster clearly discriminates" (in regards to why it killed Eko and not Locke). I think it was at Comic-Con 2007.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  20:14, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
  • Why the monster´s status is unknown? It must be "On insland present". We´ve seen it on "Dead is dead".
    • We have seen Christian on the Island in the present. Just because we've seen them on the Island doesn't mean they're automatically alive. We still don't know if the Monster is dead or alive, or if those terms can even be applied to it, hence it being listed as unknown. Illyrias Acolyte 16:20, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Arzt

I realize that on his page it says that Arzt's episode count is 5, but I think this is incorrect. I can think of 4: Born to Run, Exodus Parts 1 and 2, and Expose. Should he be taken off this portal? Gefred7112 23:41, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

  • Episode 1x24 counts as two, Exodus Parts 2 and 3, giving him three for Exodus, one for Born to Run, and one for Expose, totaling five. He's fine. Illyrias Acolyte 23:59, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
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