Talk:Par Avion

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Claire centric

If anybody can add this, the episode has just been confirmed as Claire centric... --Isolation815

Where and by whom was it confirmed? It must be an official source. It has been rumoured for some time now this ep was Claire-centric. --Blueeagle islander 23:32, 22 February 2007 (PST)

Well, there are promo pics out for the ep. Claire looks all... goth and creepy or something. [1]. It looks like she worked in a tattoo parlor. --Marik7772003 15:56, 23 February 2007 (PST)

Are these sourced from ABCMedianet? If so, they're confirmation to me. -- Plkrtn talk contribs email 16:15, 23 February 2007 (PST)

Yep, Plk. [2]. Some are on the 2nd page, like the ones in fb. --Marik7772003 16:17, 23 February 2007

(PST)

Uh...this episode is confirmed to be Claire-centric...can we add it? Shadow Ultra 14:10, 24 February 2007 (PST)

Guest Stars! Wow!

Guest starring are John Terry as Christian Shephard, M.C. Gainey as Mr. Friendly/Tom, Mira Furlan as Danielle Rousseau, Andrew Divoff as Mikhail, Gabrielle Fitzpatrick as Lindsey, Julian Barnes as Dr. Woodruff, Rhett Biles as Officer Barnes, Danan Pere as ER doctor, Anne Elizabeth Logan as head nurse and John Medlen as man at crash site.

Both Christian and Lindsey! ODK Talk Sandbox 13:42, 26 February 2007 (PST)

That pretty much seals the deal the Christian is Claire's father --Mr. Crabby (Talk) 13:35, 26 February 2007 (PST)

Maybe Claire was Lindsey's neighbor and just watched the scene between Lindsey and Christian :-) Wouldn't it be too obvious if Christian was Claire's dad? -- EvelynPace 09:41, 28 February 2007 (PST)

I'm wondering what the crash is. Aparantly invovling Claire as there is a nurse and a doctor on that list. I guess we'll see. And Patchy's in it a again, and we're on a first name basis with him already.-Mr.Leaf 13:49, 26 February 2007 (PST)

are we gonna find out that Claire is Jack's sister? (or half sister)

you guys remember that last year there was a scene where Christian Shepard wanted to see his daughter (from this Australian woman, Lindsey) but she didn't want to show him her daughter because "he didn't have the right to"... it was too skeptical to say that her daughter was Clair because there wasn't enough evidence to say so...

but now?? we are seeing those two characters in a CLAIRE's flashback??

anybody with me on this??

this would be soo cool,, and it would be cooler if they (jack and claire) actually find out they are brother and sister some how in the island! --mo-- (^Talk | ) 12:30, 1 March 2007 (PST)

Nope, it is actually one of the worst ideas I have ever heard.--Captain Insano 12:33, 1 March 2007 (PST)

Insano, I think you're up for a big surprise. --Puppyfury 11:45, 13 March 2007 (PDT)

Nah, way too obvious. I'd actually be very sad if they decided to do that. I'm betting that Jack's half sister turns out to be Claire's best friend, and Jack never finds out. Just another weird character connection from the flashbacks. -BearDog 12:37, 1 March 2007 (PST)

Well if you want to know...

THEY ARE--Nokia (Talk) (Email) (Contribs) 23:05, 3 March 2007 (PST)

Proof please. Nothing can make you so sure. If they were bro and sis you wouldn't know because the producers would have done everything they could to cover it up. Princess Dharma (banned)

I do fear that this is really it. Sad, but it is. When the episode with Lindsey FIRST aired, my step-mom automatically said "That's Claire's mother," and we went on to discuss Jack and the relation. Honestly, I hope they REALIZED that it was too obvious, and somehow changed it. :: |†|[ K i t s u n e ]|†|

mua ha ha ha ha ha (evil laugh lol)... told u guyz and thought i was stupid,, havnt seen the episode yet.. im out of the country for vacation but i just read it in the page that is has been revealed... i will see the episode when i come back (which is totaly spoiled by now but i dont care) take it eazy boyz and girlz--mo-- (^Talk |

) 01:03, 15 March 2007 (PDT)

TIME LINE ISSUES- I am confused over the timeline of this episode. When Christian and Ana Lucia went to Australia, he went to Mom's house to try to see Claire. We assume that was his last trip there considering Ana Lucia met Jack on the flight back from Australia. But at that point, the Mom wouldnt let him see Claire. But her Mom would have been in a coma for months or years before that happened. So did the mom come out of the Coma or was that her aunt or was that way before the car accident?

He went to where Claire was living, which was with her aunt Lindsey, and that is who was at the door.

Wow, mo, you're one smart cookie. Good job on having the right answer. --|MMORTAL /\LIEN 09:58, 17 March 2007 (PDT)

Oh my gosh this show is incredibale. Althogh I have to admit that I saw the whole Jack and Clair are half bro and sis back in season 2, during AL's flashback to when she was in Austraila with Jack's (and now we know Claire's) dad.

"Par Avion" - translation and reference

"Par avion" literally means "by plane", but it is most frequently used in reference to a shipment by air mail. --Hprill 05:12, 2 March 2007 (PST)

Canadian preview?

Anyone have the Canadian preview for this episode? And who else thinks those monolith things have something to do with the Monster? :) Loki 20:50, 7 March 2007 (PST)

Tesla Coils

This is just a striking resemblance that occured to me, those poles you see in the promo remind me of Tesla Coils, and how you hear Mikhail scream and there is an electric sound!

That would mean they probably are Tesla Coils, in one form or another. :: |†|[ K i t s u n e ]|†|

Then again, you can't always go by the previews on whats going to happen. I remember back in season 1 where they made it seem Sawyer was gonna flip out and kill people. As of yet, I haven't seen it happen. Mr_Mcgee

Seems that...

There is a connection between Locke and Mikhail. Mikhail knows he was paralyzed! Anomymage 23:37, 9 March 2007 (PST)

Uhm.. I think it sounds more like Mikhail was gonna say paraplegic, but thats the same thing pretty much... Sounds like there could be a link, though.... WallnutBoy|talk|contributions 12:45, 12 March 2007 (PDT)

Wrong... "the Locke I know is ---" is paraplegic? Doesn't quite make sense. Paralyzed fits the bill a lot better. --Puppyfury 11:56, 13 March 2007 (PDT)

In this case, Mikhail saying "paralyzed" versus "paraplegic" doesn't make much of a difference. The important thing is that Mikhail knew Locke from other than a research folder (such as with Juliet and Jack)
Mikhail isn't the only one. According to the preview at the end of the episode, Ben is also quite informed about Locke's past. Very excited to see how Locke became paralyzed next week.

there are some pshycological causes could cause locke paralyzed (then, a revertible causes)--Fuzter lost 11:34, 15 March 2007 (PDT)
My theory is that Mikhail played internet games with Locke while he worked for the box factory. And my second theory is that Locke knows it, which is why he (1) blew up The Flame and (2) killed Mikhail. --Amberjet11 12:31, 15 March 2007 (PDT)

Mikhail's "fleeting memory" of Locke would seem to indicate that they had interacted face-to-face before, but Mikhail has lied about a number of things regarding his past. If The Others can have such a detailed dossier on Jack, they could certainly have a similar one on Locke, which would certainly have information on how and when he was paralyzed. Cindy could have also told The Others about Locke's paralysis, as she was part of 815's flight crew, which needed to make special accommodations to get Locke onto the plane. --Rowsdower 08:52, 16 March 2007 (PDT)

Job

Is Claire wroking in a tatoo parlour (maybe she looks like a total goth) or the Fish 'n' Fry?Princess Dharma (banned)

Piercing, possibly tattooing parlor. :: |†|[ K i t s u n e ]|†|

Claire and Jack cross paths at some point when he was in Australia and that will explain how he got the rest of his tattoos.

In the background behind Claire & Christian...

Can anyone with a DVR skip back to right after Claire stood up to throw her coffee cup away while arguing with Christian? There was a man who walked by, and at a glance he looked like Mikhail. Can someone confirm or deny that? Joel Van Atta 20:04, 14 March 2007 (PDT)

You mean the man in the blue striped shirt? I looked, and I'm fairly sure it is not Mikhail. Pkal 20:12, 14 March 2007 (PDT)

Mother

Do we have an article for Claire's mother up yet? Is she even credited in the episode... the list suggests otherwise. --Keri Can Fly 20:53, 14 March 2007 (PDT)

Child in Otherville

At the very last instant of the episode, just after Jack spikes the football, a child is visible in Otherville in the background. There is also a swing set and, perhaps, a playground. This indicates that the Others do have children living among them, possibly more than just the captured ones from Flight 815... --Pedxing 21:17, 14 March 2007 (PDT)

Great or Greatest?

...you decide. Jcc1033 22:20, 14 March 2007 (PDT)

Greater than the Greatest. Locke's not an idiot, he's just become an asshole. Also, while Claire's plan will be useless, it's damned brilliant.--Ex-Pope Cardinal Richard Corey 01:30, 15 March 2007 (PDT)

my dear e.p.c.r.corey: i agree with you: the plan it´s damned brillant... but i think useless, because we saw a white bird on otherville in "tale of two cities"... maybe the birds sourround the island in circles, like desmond in his boat... but....yes: the claire´s idea is brillant.

So where did the bird's tag come from? I suppose the Others could have an ornitholgist's club as well as a book club! Burt Gummer

about locke: is a strange guy.... everything has a secret on his pocket....--Fuzter lost 11:14, 15 March 2007 (PDT) Just when i think im bored along comes a wicked surprising exciting moving dramatically well written episode. How crazy, Jack is good, are we bad? Thank you writers, Oh and i think they should stop Lost while its still good. Maby one more season or two. Tell me someone agrees with me, or are we all looking forward to the zombie series 7. LOL

Position of Pictures!

Someone fix the position of the pictures!!! --Puppyfury 00:13, 15 March 2007 (PDT)

Intent to Commit Suicide?

One of the last things Claire said to her mother was, "I'll see you soon" (paraphrased). Should we take this to mean Claire planned to kill herself after giving the baby up for adoption? --Ez76 02:26, 15 March 2007 (PDT)

Possibly, perhaps put it as a theory. --Blueeagle islander 02:18, 15 March 2007 (PDT)
I just interpreted it as "I'm going off to America to give birth, be back soon!" Bellemichelle 06:29, 15 March 2007 (PDT)

Same here; we shouldn't read too much into everything (ex: "Not my type"). --Amberjet11 12:29, 15 March 2007 (PDT)
Claire's Mother isn't dead, and Claire has no intention of taking her off life-support, so if she was to see her soon it would be in this life. --Rowsdower 08:57, 16 March 2007 (PDT)

Charlie Did Not Attach The Note

If you watch the episode again, Charlie clearly keeps the note in the palm of his hand, which can only be seen from the angle of the camera, and not from where Claire was stood. So please stop editing the synopsis to say that he attached the note.

But was this just a production error? It is curious that Desmond scared away all the birds when Charlie wasn't anywhere around, and that the note is visible in his hand... --Pedxing 07:01, 16 March 2007 (PDT)

This was confirmed as a goof. Sorry, I don't have a link.

Jack/Locke/Others

In White Rabbit, the following conversation took place between Jack and Locke about the tailenders, JACK: "How are they, the others?" LOCKE: "Thirsty. Hungry. Waiting to be rescued. And they need someone to tell them what to do." Just vaguely possible this has a double-meaning. If it turned out Jack was destined to lead some of the Others (with a big "O"), this exchange might seem prescient on Locke's part. I'm tempted to guess that Jack and Locke will soon compete to become leaders of a faction of the Others. --HypnoSynthesis 03:34, 15 March 2007 (PDT)
I disagree. I don't think there was a hidden meaning there, but that Jack either willingly agreed to become part of their society, or (more likely, IMHO) was brainwashed. Joel Van Atta 13:48, 15 March 2007 (PDT)
Or the whole place is surrounded by a fence that makes your head explode, so he might as well toss the football around and get some exercise until an opportunity presents itself. -BearDog 14:00, 15 March 2007 (PDT)

Yep. And opportunity is probably more likely to present itself if he 'plays nice'. GregH 09:38, 16 March 2007 (PDT)

Jack is there because he agreed to look after Ben until Ben had recovered from surgery (in return for commuting Juliet's sentence). OK, he could have decided to mope inside a darkened room when he wasn't giving Ben medical attention, rather than go out and chuck a football around; but really, what other explanation is necessary? Burt Gummer

no. if you watch the show, and pay some little attention about how is jack, you know if he´ll stay giving medical attention to ben, he´ll quit, solitary, looking, and never playing football. there are something strange behind this attitude.... --Fuzter lost 23:50, 15 March 2007 (PDT)

more of this: if you watch the scene where jack and kate are talking in the episode "i do", when she try to persuade jack to make the surgery, you´ll find exactly what he think about the others...... impossible to think jack could change his mind few days later.... --Fuzter lost 21:26, 19 March 2007 (PDT)

"Claire hatches an impressive plan"

Pun intended? ;-) Seriously, how about some more pictures of teenage Goth Claire? --Amberjet11 12:28, 15 March 2007 (PDT)

She's quite atractive as a Goth, in my opinion. :: |†|[ K i t s u n e ]|†|

Very much agreed. Black-Hair Claire=ZOMG HOT. Not that blonde her isn't, of course.--Ex-Pope Cardinal Richard Corey 07:29, 21 March 2007 (PDT)

Song?

There was some music in here, in the cafe where she left elder Shepherd. Anyone know? --Brother 13:28, 15 March 2007 (PDT)

More pictures

We should have more pictures of before the crash and on the beach parts of the synopsis. --Puppyfury 13:56, 15 March 2007 (PDT)

Kate, jack

One question: how did Kate know about Jack being on the same island? She knew that he returned to the "home island"? BeŻet 14:32, 15 March 2007 (PDT)

Kate knew that the Others lived on the main island, and Karl told her and Sawyer that they lived in houses with backyards, so the best way to save Jack was to find "Othersville". Makiwolf 15:18, 15 March 2007 (PDT)

Whether or not Kate knew or suspected the Others would return to the main island is irrelevant; she is not the one directing their search. Locke follows the heading on Eko's Stick to The Flame and Sayid follows the electrical map to The Barracks. --Rowsdower 08:47, 16 March 2007 (PDT)

Jack's "new" tattoo

Can anyone get a good picture of the new tattoo that is mentioned in the unanswered questions? I tired to see it but I couldnt exactly find it.

It's not new. It was shown before, for example, during his speech in "Man of Science, Man of Faith". I wrote a comment about that here.

The Sound of the Sonic Barrier?

Was that the same sound heard in the pilot episode? Remember, the Losties hear something in the jungle, assume it's the 'monster', and Charlie says something like, "Where are we?" -- Why has no one replied to this?

Picture of Mikhail dying

Does anyone else think that the picture of Mikhail dying is gruesome and might not be suitable for this page? --Puppyfury -- talk -- contributions 04:15, 16 March 2007 (PDT)

I also had that thought initially. This is a family Lostpedia... Joel Van Atta 05:40, 16 March 2007 (PDT)
- Is there a compelling argument for the site to be more family-safe than the show, though? --Bastion 05:59, 16 March 2007 (PDT)
  - One might make the argument that at least with the TV show, you can look away while Mikhail's brain hemorrhages, whereas here it's a static image. That said, in the thumbnail, all you can see is the blood on his neck. You'd have to click on the image to see the gory details, and no one's forcing people to click on the thumbnails. In any case, there's been lots of blood on the show before -- Locke spent a good portion of "The Greater Good" in a shirt soaked with Boone's blood, and Boone himself was drenched in it in "Deus Ex Machina" and "Further Instructions" -- and it seems to me that if you're into Lost enough to want to come to Lostpedia, you've probably seen worse on the show. Jeremiahsmith 06:51, 16 March 2007 (PDT)
    - I do see your point when thinking about past scenes of blood, but this scene is different. The picture in question was one of him in the process of dying, something that's hard for some people to watch. --Puppyfury -- talk -- contributions 14:56, 16 March 2007 (PDT)
      - I don't agree. If the person is mature enough to watch the show, they are mature enough to see it here. Plus, those Thumbs aren't that big, anyways. Easy to avoid. So, I disagree, and think it should be left up...Even if that scene did disturb me a tad. And honestly, the pilot's mangled body in Pilot was more gruesome that this, it just wasn't moving. I think the sound was most disturbing to me... :: |†|[ K i t s u n e ]|†|

Sonar Beacon and Finding the Island

Something does not add up regarding Mikhail's information about the Sonar Beacon. He claims that the submarine is the only way to get back to the Island, and that it can only do so by following the sonar beacon. It seems you can get to the Island by accident, but you can't navigate there without the beacon even if you've been going back and forth for decades. Some problems with this statement:

Rousseau claimed to have found the Island by following the radio signal that was broadcasting The Numbers. Is she lying?
If the phenomenon that prevents one from finding the Island is man-made, it evidently works despite the failure of communications equipment, including the beacon. Why can't (or won't) it be turned off?
We know that the magnetic field of the Island is abnormal and compasses on it do not point true North. This could be related to the difficulty in navigating to the Island. But why couldn't one navigate by the stars? If that is impossible, it would seem to place the phenomenon outside the realm of man-made technology.
If the phenomenon is natural, how did the people who discovered this aspect of the Island find their way back to set up the beacon?

Let's take the first known vessel to arrive on the Island: The Black Rock. This was Magnus Hanso's ship, and according to the Blast Door Map, he is buried on the Island. No one from that ship could have set up a beacon, and even if they got a message (or a person) off the Island that explained the navigational anomaly and somehow found its way to Alvar Hanso, how could he find the Island to station The DHARMA Initiative there? --Rowsdower 09:56, 16 March 2007 (PDT)

Christian's presence

There's an unanswered question on the main page: "Why did Christian Shephard tell hospital staff he was the doctor attending Claire's mother? Why didn't he just say he was a visitor?"

The question presumes that he did claim that. Since we didn't see him arrive, we really don't know what Christian told the hospital staff. Potentially he could have just walked in, announced himself to be "Doctor Christian Shephard, here to see Carole Littleton," and gone to her room. The notion that he's Carole's doctor may be just inference by the one character we saw reference him that way. --Bastion 11:07, 16 March 2007 (PDT)

sayid suspects about locke

why sayid, after mikhail was killed, ask locke: "why are you really here? are you here for jack?" what think sayid about lokce intentions? --Fuzter lost 18:44, 16 March 2007 (PDT)

Sayid has previous experience of Locke's lies and deceptions. Locke was the one who knocked Sayid unconscious when Sayid was triangulating Rousseau's signal. Sayid forced Locke to reveal the truth about Boone's death, and reveal the truth about "The real hatch". When you're asking Locke a straight question and you get an evasive answer, especially the way he answers a question with another question, that's a sign he's lying. It's almost as reliable as seeing Pinocchio's nose get longer! Burt Gummer

I agree Locke has been susspise from season 1.I think he's working for the others.

Change main picture!

The first picture for this episode showed Claire and Charlie releasing the seagull, while I know that the episode pictures should show the character in question, that shot was really great and it was really the main point of this episode, this new picture of Claire's face is less interesting and reflective of the episode. Just a thought. User: Voodoo

I was thinking the same thing actually. But I went and looked at some other episode articles and it appears that there is a policy of always selecting a close up photo of the person whose flashback it is. If someone can find it again it should at least replace the picture of the bird flying by itself mid article. It might make the page more interesting if the policy changed so there were three pictures in the box, an A-story pic, a B-story pic, and a flashback pic. --Jackdavinci 15:08, 17 March 2007 (PDT)

This isn't a policy. The original picture, Image:3x12_ParAvion.jpg better describes the episode. The infobox clearly shows who the flashback of the episode so having a single picture of the flashback main character makes little sense. Jabberwock talk contribs email - 12:02, 19 March 2007 (PDT)

To avoid a spoiler

....the list with the name of the episodes with the flashback character we see in top of every main page of a episode, is like a spoiler. must be a link in the main page of lostpedia like "list of episodes" without the name of the flashback, and nothing more... at least, the name of the episode and flashback character, must be filled after we saw it.. --Fuzter lost 02:56, 18 March 2007 (PDT)

Everything released by ABCMedianet is considered as canon, so we add it to there, even if it is a spoiler. --Marik7772003 08:08, 18 March 2007 (PDT)

But we surely could do without "Mikhail appears to be breathing after Kate examines his body. This foreshadows his revival in a later episode." Like many non-US residents, i am watching the show always a few episodes behind, and i like to rummage through lostpedia after each episode. Why dont you use "spoiler"-tags or keep spoilers like this in a separate section, like the answered "unanswered questions"? --Thelittlegear 17:25, 5 March 2008 (PST)

Well, as it warns across the top of the Main Page, "Lostpedia is updated to U.S. aired episodes, mobisodes and official releases. All non-U.S. visitors should be very careful regarding which pages they visit including the lower sections of the Main page". There is information scattered all over episode articles that reference later episodes. Lostpedia is a U.S.-based wiki which aims to be a comprehensive encyclopedia covering a U.S.-based show; it would be too crippling toward that goal to limit the content and how it's presented by separating out certain content. -- Graft talk contributions 18:05, 5 March 2008 (PST)

Granted. But wouldn´t it make more sense to put the reference "this foreshadows his revival in a later episode" in said later episode? Kind of a "policy" that makes every episode page limit the listed knowledge (however artificially) to that time of the whole series frame? As it is done, i repeat myself, with the "unanswered questions" and "theories". On the (certainly MUCH less elaborate) pages of tv.com, this works quite well, making for a nice companion as you go through each episode.

Don´t get me wrong. This is my first post (as a matter of fact, ever, in a wiki system), and i am already fond of both the series and the lostpedia. I know you don´t set up working rules for a system like this over night, and it would be heartless of me to downplay the community´s achievement. I am tired, it´s 3 am CET and Par Avion is the 6th or so episode i am watching in a row, just like the last couple of days oO

I guess it was just my disappointment speaking. Thank you though for replying so quickly! --Thelittlegear 18:25, 5 March 2008 (PST)

Audio in the hospital

I couldn't catch what was said in the loud speakers in the hospital scenes. One of them mentions "a call to Dr. (unintelligible) on line 4". Can anyone transcribe those? I believe there were four announcements (two in a scene, two in the next sequence). -. Grillage .- 23:54, 19 March 2007 (PDT)

submarine

has the submarine the ability of leave the island, or it only could trave between them? maybe the purge was a virus-attack to the original islanders by dharma-people, and they were under the hatches all the time, and travelling to the other island by submarine, to avoid the surface, changin the original ferry.--Fuzter lost 09:06, 20 March 2007 (PDT)

Aussie Health Care

A lot of message boards are talking about a pretty big blooper, namely that Christian wouldn't need to pay the hospital bills as Australia has universal (free) health care. I think Lostpedia should address that, but I'm not sure where and how. Any thoughts? --MacCruiskeen 03:46, 25 March 2007 (PDT)

Desmond and the Boar, Birds, Vision-

Why did Desmond pretend to shoot the boar, scaring the birds away? If the birds had been caught, then Charlie wouldn't have had to chase after one and "die". This didn't make sense to me. What was Desmond's purpose in pretending to shoot the boar?

This point bothered me as well and unfortunately, it's probably just a plot-hole that has no entirely satisfactory in-continuity solution. All I can think of... maybe Desmond wasn't lying. He really was shooting at a boar that escaped into the jungle. As far as I can recall, there's nothing in the episode that confirms he wasn't really shooting at a boar.--Faraday100 03:21, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

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