Talk:Orchid Orientation video
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I think the thing that fell was a lightbulb or something- whatever was on the top shelf that when the bunny appeared, booted it off the shelf, so it fell :D Phoénix 15:43, 16 May 2008 (PDT)
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Is it still a spoiler?
Since we have seen the Orchid in Lost, should this article still be marked as spoiler?--Kemot from Poland 07:37, 19 May 2008 (PDT)
Agree: The Orchid has been seen in Lost and we even have a logo for it. This film featured on the Season 3 DVD, therefore it should not be considered a spoiler.--Baker1000 05:16, 21 May 2008 (PDT)
Rename or separate article?
Should we rename this now that we have the real film, or should the real film be it's own separate article? --Jackdavinci 23:13, 29 May 2008 (PDT)
- I'd say rename this article, and just include a section about the outtakes. --Compossible 23:37, 29 May 2008 (PDT)
- Rename: We don't need two articles.--Baker1000 06:18, 30 May 2008 (PDT)
- Rename: We've got the actual film now; may as well include both in one single article named for the actual film. Datameister 10:58, 1 June 2008 (PDT)
- Rename: Nothing more to add. - TheAma1 12:31, 2 June 2008 (PDT)
- Rename - this is a no-brainer. --CTS 19:33, 4 June 2008 (PDT)
- Rename: Sure.. -- Steff talk contribs email 14:06, 5 June 2008 (PDT)
- Rename --CTS 21:36, 7 June 2008 (PDT)
Actual Orientation film from Episode?
Any chance we can get the actual Orientation film that Locke watched in "TNPLH parts 2 & 3" on here? Then we can rename the article. --JoeyBags1138 11:16, 31 May 2008 (PDT)
- My guess is there would be more of a copyright issue with that, since it's from an actual episode of the show, so we probably can't (I don't know that for sure though). But we could certainly include a transcript and a few screenshots. There's plenty of information that can still be included... enough to make it worthwhile to rename the article and just include a section on the outtakes as well. --Compossible 17:03, 31 May 2008 (PDT)
Outtakes should be taken out of the title
Does anyone else think the word outtakes doesnt belong in the title. I think its better suited as just a sub-section of the "orchid orientation film" article —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MattC867 (talk • contribs) 2008-06-01T17:38:35.
Time discrepancy
So I added the time discrepancy section to the article. I decided to place it directly under the video, as opposed to the bottom of the aritcle under trivia or bloopers, for a couple reasons: It isn't related to the Comic Con footage, rather it's commentary on how the footage was presented to the audience in the context of the episode. And I feel that having it close to the video is important, so you can play-n-pause it yourself and check the times. I tried to write it as matter-of-factly as possible to avoid it sounding like a theory (i.e., "OMG!! da Orchid is messn wit time fo realz!!1!") and not deserving to be on the main page. If I made math errors or whatnot, please correct them. Thanks! Kevrock 23:58, 3 June 2008 (PDT)
Canonicity
There's a big difference between the actual aired Orchid Orientation video and the one shown at Comic Con. The one from Comic Con implies that there could be backward or forward time travel physically (not just within an individual's state of consciousness). The one actually aired on ABC does no such thing. It only shows that time travel physically occurs into the future, which makes a lot more sense given the laws of physics.
My point here is that there is way too much overzealous and rampant speculation about traveling backward and forward in time on this wiki, whereas the only thing that has been shown as canon on the show is that physical time travel can only occur forward in time. A lot of these theories about Others going backward and forward and time can be tamped down a bit if it were made more clear that in the "final cut" of the Orchid video, there is no evidence whatsoever of the technology of reverse time travel, only forward time travel. A whole lot of enthusiastic fans have really taken that Comic Con video as canon, when clearly it is not. The final version is significantly different, and there is definitely a reason for that.
Just to clarify, besides time travel of the conscious mind, there is no evidence whatsoever on Lost that time travel to the past is possible. There is no evidence whatsoever (at least as of yet) that any physical time travel to the past is possible. However, there is a lot of misinformation on this wiki that entirely ignores this cold hard fact. Everything in the show, especially the Orchid video, implicitly implies that time travel to the past is not possible. Users of this website are being misinformed by overexcited contributers.
Can anyone else here help me out with this? I think that a lot of people coming to Lostpedia are getting bad information about the rules of time travel set by the shows creative team thus far. We really, really, need to somehow clean this section up and clarify what has been demonstrated on the show versus what overexcited fans think might be. I would really appreciate some help on this. A team effort to clean this up would be great. Thanks. --Japhy Ryder 09:06, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
- You make some nice points. Please clarify which phrases in this article (or other articles) need to be changed (or sandbox them for discussion)? (There shouldn't be articles that claim as fact the Others pop into the Orchid and move freely backward and forward in time at the touch of a button.) We can go through these issues. Also please also review Lostpedia:Canon. Your point that episode-evidence and comic-con evidence may be different is valid, but at Lostpedia both are considered canonical when these do not conflict. In the case of potential conflict, conflict of interpretation, or simple expository differences as you note, in Lostpedia these should simply be completely and clearly explained (with respect to their source) in the article (rather than eliminating non-episode information entirely from the article). -- Contrib¯ _Santa_ ¯ Talk 09:25, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
- Gotcha. Thanks! I'll have to go through here with a fine comb tooth and review Lostpedia:Canon and sandboxing. My main thing is that I don't want to offend anyone or potentially remove anything unnecessarily. The issue is so pervasive around the website, though, that I am afraid I cannot do it alone. It will have to be a community effort, but one that I am willing to dedicate much time to doing, but that will require me to go through a heavy crash course in the etiquette of this wiki. After that, I'll try to start with "completely and clearly explaining (with respect to their source) in the article (rather than eliminating non-episode information entirely from the article)" my concerns in the differences between the two versions of the Orchid Orientation videos. I look forward to working and talking with you more, and thanks!--Japhy Ryder 09:42, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
- General Redaction of this Topic: Now that Season Five has opened, there is clear evidence that time travel to the past in the form of physical manifestation is definitely possible. Moreover, the time travel has very specific rules (likely with more to follow). Now that the writers have laid these on the table for all to see, the speculation can end to a large degree. Ideally individuals who have taken the time to make contributions to this website can streamline any page in which time travel is mentioned according to the rules that have been specified on the show. I'm going to leave this up here on the talk page for now, but when a little more time has passed, I shall excise most of it. (That is the proper thing to do, right? Or should it remain for being a constructive dialogue between Santa, myself, and potentially others? I do not know the netiquette on this topic. Should I leave it, trim it, or delete it all together, including Santa's comments?) I think that now that the question has been answered, the topic is dead, although the overall point is still true: that individuals reign in their contributions according to in-show canonicity and not speculation.--Japhy Ryder 09:45, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
- Gotcha. Thanks! I'll have to go through here with a fine comb tooth and review Lostpedia:Canon and sandboxing. My main thing is that I don't want to offend anyone or potentially remove anything unnecessarily. The issue is so pervasive around the website, though, that I am afraid I cannot do it alone. It will have to be a community effort, but one that I am willing to dedicate much time to doing, but that will require me to go through a heavy crash course in the etiquette of this wiki. After that, I'll try to start with "completely and clearly explaining (with respect to their source) in the article (rather than eliminating non-episode information entirely from the article)" my concerns in the differences between the two versions of the Orchid Orientation videos. I look forward to working and talking with you more, and thanks!--Japhy Ryder 09:42, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
Logo on Labcoat
Is the logo on the labcoat in the orientation film shown in There's no Place Like Home that of the Swan? The logo definetly does not match the Swan, but may be the Orchid. I'm not watching the high def version, I could probably tell if I were. It also seems odd that all of the close up shots of Halliwax cut off directly above the logo. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rampage455 (talk • contribs) 02:43, 20 January. 2009
- The logo is the Swan as seen in the Orchid orientation outtake video. Hugo815 05:50, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Whispers
Has anyone tried to analyze the whispering sounds at the beginning of the tape? I've seen other pages where they analyzed the whispering when the smoke monster was about to appear and they found some of the dead characters conversing or making comments. Rlee1185 15:54, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
