Talk:Not in Portland

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Archive: Talk:Not in Portland/Pre-broadcast discussions

Contents 1 Rachel lives in a lab? 2 Juliet's arrival date 3 Aldo and Sawyer 4 Alex's boat 5 "Oh, Al" 6 DHARMA logo in Rachel's room? 7 "Take Sawyer and go" 8 Juliet, like Walt is "special" and HAS THE SAME KIND OF POWERS 9 Lip readers? 10 Miami or the island? 11 Geographical beaches in relation to the Skyline from Juliet's sisters room. 12 Alex is Ben's daughter? 13 X-RAYS 14 ID Card 15 The Brainwashing Scene Backwards 16 The Secret Clue and How it sheds light on the Adam & Eve Skeletons 17 Trust 18 Juliet has been trying to get Ben pregnant 19 Portland Metatheme? 20 Mr. Alpert 21 Medical Terminology 22 1st other flashback? 23 This is the first and only episode that does not show the Island?

Rachel lives in a lab?

"After watching the sunset, she decides to go and visit her sister, Rachel in her lab." I thought she was in a hospital. --PandoraX 23:26, 7 February 2007 (PST)

Juliet's arrival date

According to the timeline, this episode takes place on December 3, 2004. Subtracting 3 years gives us 12/3/01. Two months less is 10/3/01. 28 days less is 9/5/01. the Date calculator [1] confirms this. However, years and months are of variable length, so one could theoretically come up with an alternate method of calculating the date. There's some people who have calculated by some unknown method a date of 9/11/2001 which would coincide with the WTC attcks. --Jackdavinci 06:30, 8 February 2007 (PST)

Does this date assume that she arrived on the island the day after the flash-back sequences? Where did you get the 12/3/04 date from?

Q1) No, it doesn't assume anything about how long that was after the flashback. Q2) He's using our timeline consensus and adding one day to it. Comment: If current events on the island occur on December 2, 2004, I arrive at September 3, 2001 for Juliet's arrival date.

Spoilers that came out after the screener was released calculated her arrival as 9/11, since she apparently mentioned a different length of time than she did in the final episode. Perhaps it was changed last-minute to a less emotional date? Jeremiahsmith 08:18, 8 February 2007 (PST)

Or those people were obsessed with finding a link with 9/11 that never existed. -- Cheers 08:22, 8 February 2007 (PST)

Damon and Carlton said that if you extrapolate backwards the date she arrived would be a very significant one. --Puppyfury

[2] --Puppyfury 10:58, 13 March 2007 (PDT)

The actual date is supposed to be 9/6/01. Apparently this was the date when cosmologists discovered a black hole in close proximity to our solar system, which goes well with the "Brief History of Time" bit in the rest of Not In Portland. THERE IS A BLACK HOLE THEORY IN THIS. The Fuselage goes into detail in a couple of threads, but the Tailsection does it better, or more officially at least. [3] You're welcome. :) --Puppyfury 11:30, 13 March 2007 (PDT)

Aldo and Sawyer

Does anyone remember what Sawyer called Aldo after Sawyer hears his name? Pharmakon 06:36, 8 February 2007 (PST)

• • I think he just repeats the name at the fact that it is such a rare name
  • Alex says he is Aldo ("ALL-doh") and Sawyer says Al-do? ("AL-DOH") Then he says "OK Lollipop" but he's referring to Alex". Danny calls him "idiot" later.

Right, right... saw that on my 2nd watching. I was probably thinking that lollipop was a weird nickname to use after hearing the name Aldo. Knowing Sawyer, I'm sure he listed to Aldo Nova in the 80s!Pharmakon 10:01, 14 February 2007 (PST)

Alex's boat

Someone made the edit (→On the Hydra Island - this is not a sailboat, this is a canoe). But! - it has a sail. Do canoes have sails? And it also has a stabilizer which could I guess make it a catamaran. Any boat experts want to weight in?

• It definitely has a sail. Maybe it is more specifically classifieds as a sailing canoe? In the episode itself, I don't think it was referred to as anything other than a generic boat. -- Dagg talk contribs4 8 07:30, 8 February 2007 (PST)

• Ah, I gotcha. I didn't notice the sail either, and just redirected to the canoe page, which someone had already started. If you guys get a more specific term for this type of boat, let us know over in that talk page, and we'll move the name if we need to. --PandoraX 07:35, 8 February 2007 (PST)

• My friend seems to think it's an outrigger (or outrigger canoe), although wikipedia doesn't mention whether or not they can have sails. --Jackdavinci 16:00, 8 February 2007 (PST)

The boat is shaped like a typical polynesian dugout canoe - complete with outrigger and sail. A google search on "polynesian boats" shows many variants on this form. --Doc 08:30, 14 February 2007 (PST)

"Oh, Al"

When Juliet sees Alex with Kate and Sawyer on the video feed, I thought she said "oh, hell" not "oh, Al". Can we get a little clearing up? (I think it should be oh hell, since no one has called Alex "Al" and "hell" makes more sense, but if the captioning as Al I guess that's that.) Jeremiahsmith 07:37, 8 February 2007 (PST)

• It's "Well, hell". That's what the captioning had and that's indeed what it sounded like. -- Cheers 07:40, 8 February 2007 (PST)

• Yeah, please change that now. It sounded strange to me why Alex would be abbrev. "Al" also. --PandoraX 08:08, 8 February 2007 (PST)
• Sounded like "Oh, Al" to me, but il go with the majority. --lewisg 13:29, 8 February 2007 (PST)

• Woops, heard the line a few more times now, its definately "oh hell" :D --lewisg 02:24, 13 February 2007 (PST)

DHARMA logo in Rachel's room?

When Juliet comes in to give Rachel a shot, there's a black octagonal object on the bedside table with a white octagon and a bright curve. Could this be a DHARMA logo, maybe the Swan? - GoodRom 08:52, 8 February 2007 (PST)

There's a better view of the item later. It's a decorative black octagon with a yinyang in the middle. Jeremiahsmith 08:53, 8 February 2007 (PST)

• I added the yinyang reference to Religions, but I think it's a bit of a jump to say it's necessarily a DHARMA logo, since it didn't look like it had the surrounding 8 kwai on the outside. I think it might just be an Easter Egg to hint at the same Taoist themes as DHARMA does. --PandoraX 09:09, 8 February 2007 (PST)

• Having looked at better screencaps of this scene, I'm more convinced this isn't just a passing motif of a yin-yang this was a prop built specifically to remind people of the DHARMA bagua. Maybe Juliet founded the design of the logo, based on her memories of her sister? Also, note that the book Carrie is on the bedstand. --PandoraX 05:53, 10 February 2007 (PST)

• I don't think she could have designed the logo, because it was in use when the orientation films were made back in the 70's. Juliet couldn't have been anything more than an infant, if she was born at all. -BearDog 08:46, 14 February 2007 (PST)

"Take Sawyer and go"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in "I do", Jack made no mention on the radio of taking Sawyer with her when he instructed Kate to run, did he? That line was added in this episode, right? --Bryce 13:58, 8 February 2007 (PST)

That line was mostly likely filmed for "I Do" but not put in until this episode.-- Puppyfury

Jack definitely did not mention Sawywer in "I Do." I'm sure it was to make us wonder during the winter break if he was just looking out for Kate or if he was going to "rescue" Sawyer as well.

Juliet, like Walt is "special" and HAS THE SAME KIND OF POWERS

She think about a bus hitting to her husband, and this occurs exactly later... She want to help her sister to be pregnant, and it was true (but the medicine didn´t work: was an effect of her desire) It´s the same kind of powers of walt (remember the bird, for example) ....maybe was the same thing that happens with the jack patient that his fixed (the story that kate told him again by walkie-talkie), and maybe the lottery winning by hurley.....etc. In facts, "special" was the name of the walt-chapter....and Dr. Alpert from Mittelos Bioscience, said to juliet "we want you joined with us, you´re special".... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fuzter lost (talk • contribs) .

• I was thinking something similar. Formatted properly it's a good thing to mention on Juliet's theories page. --Jackdavinci 05:17, 9 February 2007 (PST)
• Don't forget, "Carrie" her favorite book, is a book about a girl with extra-sensory powers! --Frankie Viturello

• Yeah, the interesting speculation from Easter Eggs in this episode are endless. The Apollo ad on the side of the bus lead me to think it's more of a conspiracy by Mittelos/THF personally, but then we do have the second Carrie reference, also (on Rachel's bedstand, see above comment). --PandoraX 06:44, 10 February 2007 (PST)

Lip readers?

Although we have Juliet's claim about what Ben told her, are there any lip readers who can give us confirmation about what he actually said during that scene? --Jackdavinci 05:18, 9 February 2007 (PST)

I strongly second the motion! I suppose that what might be holding this up is the technical difficulty of flipping a video capture upside down and backwards. If a lip reader posts that they are available, maybe a tech-savvy person would be willing to go through the trouble? (Unfortunately, I am neither.) --IanB 12:57, 9 February 2007 (PST)

I thought that Jack was trying to do exactly that. He seemed preoccupied with Ben's face in the mirror while Tom was trying to talk to him on the observation platform. - GoodRom 23:29, 11 February 2007 (PST)

The time the camera spent looking at what Jack was seeing, (Ben's reflection), was an invitation to viewers that there was something important to be learned here. I'm surprised that nearly a week has gone by without somebody being able to shed light on this. --IanB 18:32, 13 February 2007 (PST)

The first time it shows Ben's face he says "I hope the baby..." then it cuts away. The second time it shows his face is still a mystery as to what is said. I am in the process of having the video turned 180 degrees and being deciphered by my hearing impaired friend in HD. His wife is also a lip reading specialist for the phone company (video conference). The first line spoken was lip read by him. --Divinetorture 16:39, 16 February 2007 (PST)

The first video could also say: "I'm making a baby" or "I've been a bad boy". You can see both the first and second video on YouTube now. --Divinetorture 19:54, 16 February 2007 (PST)

Another forum [4] seems to think he says ""I want you to help them [with or to] my boat. I want you to help them, Juliet, help them." --Jackdavinci 19:42, 19 February 2007 (PST)

• When Jack cuts Ben's kidney sac, he asks if Tom can hear him in the observation room, and Tom says yes. So why can't Jack and Tom (in the observation room) listen to what Ben says to Juliet?
  • The intercom's probably turned off, or Ben and Juliet are whispering. --Shodan1138 18:57, 17 March 2007 (PDT)

Miami or the island?

Compare the hallway just before the scene where Juliet gives her sister a shot (supposedly in Miami) to the hallway when Ben reveals the man from Tallahassee to Locke. They are absurdly similar despite the latter appearing more aged. Note the lights, the paint, and the archways. I won't go as far to say that they are the exact same hallway, but she's gotta be on the island in that scene.

Perhaps having her sister back is "whatever [she] imagined, whatever [she] wanted" a la the box?

--Jmorin 18:09, 10 April 2007 (PDT)

Ooooooooh, interesting. (Isolation815 18:20, 10 April 2007 (PDT))

Or, more likely...the same filming location was used. --Blueeagleislander 18:25, 10 April 2007 (PDT)

I considered this, but it is not consistent with production design's meticulous attention to detail in placement of objects, colors, books, etc. for purposes of allusion and theme. I don't see them saying, "Oh, no one will notice we used the same set.." particularly with the audience of this show.--Jmorin 08:27, 11 April 2007 (PDT)

Since the entire rest of the flashback takes place in Miami, and in that scene Miami is outside the window, and they take place in chronological order, there's pretty much no way it isn't Miami. They just used the same set. If you don't believe me, looks like we'll find out tonight for sure. --Jackdavinci 08:57, 11 April 2007 (PDT)

Geographical beaches in relation to the Skyline from Juliet's sisters room.

My girlfriend is a Florida / Miami native, as well as an interior deisgner who works primarily with Miami Hotel restoration (in the area of the skyline shown). According to her, there are NO sandy "beaches" (like the one Juliet is featured sitting on in the beginning of her flashback) in relation to the (hospital?) room that her sister is staying in based on the windows position to the Miami skyline.

I wanted to add that to Trivia, but I'm having some trouble thinking of a way to condense...

-Frankie Viturello

Add it by all means - I've gotta add your comment to the Lostpedia episode blog when I do that - thats commendably geeky! --Nickb123 (Talk) 09:03, 9 February 2007 (PST)

This should probably be edited out for 2 reasons. First, it's not triva per se but a continuity error and should be in a different section. Second, we are only assuming that Juliet was just outside of her sister's room at the beginning. For all we know, she was at the beach first and then drove to her sister's. The whole sequence was designed to make us think that they were on the island anyway.

I just watched the clip again, and saw that the sun was setting (presumably) at the beach, which, if you've ever been to Miami, know is impossible! Pharmakon 08:20, 14 February 2007 (PST)

Yeah, I was generally unsure of catagorizing it as "trivia" ... Do episodes ever have "continuity errors" sections? -Frankie Viturello

They should! It seems like the writers/producers are getting a little sloppy lately! Pharmakon 10:00, 15 February 2007 (PST)

Alex is Ben's daughter?

I just don't get the connection. Alex apparently lives somewhere else, noted when Juliet tells Ben they "took her home last night" and she does not know where Alex is now ("I do"), I have to wonder who else is there and where this location is. Also, why would Ben tak her as a foster child, when there are no other children that we see at the camp? Unless they are at the location Juliet said they took Alex to as well?

I also wonder if there will be future mentions of male pregnancy, after all thats why Mittelos seemed interested in her.

The whole idea of Ben being Alex's real father is not really believable -- what is more reasonable is that Alex thinks that Ben is her real father. Remember that Rousseau was pregnant before she arrived on the island, with her lover Robert, and Ben had supposedly lived on the island all his life. ∇ϕ 06:35, 10 February 2007 (PST)

The issue of male pregnancy might come into play here. At first I thought Juliet may have impregnated Ben with an egg from Rousseau, but at the end of the episode, the time line was WAY off. But that doesn't preclude the possibility of Ben having carried a child. They do seem interested in male pregnancy! Pharmakon 09:59, 14 February 2007 (PST)

Why there are 2 very similar questions - "Is Alex really Ben's daughter? What is the nature of their "parental" relationship? Could she actually be Jacob's daughter?" and "Is Ben really Alex's father, or is this just what she's been led to believe?" ?

It makes sense that Alex was stolen from Rousseau as an infant and raised by Ben.

I think there may be a stronger link between Ben and Rousseau than meets the eye. While Ben may not be Alex's real father, I find it difficult to believe she could have caught Ben in "One of Them" by chance. Anyone else got any thoughts on this?..

I think if Rousseau knew of Ben's identity, she would have told the them who he was. Unless, of course, she's an Other as well! Pharmakon 09:59, 14 February 2007 (PST)

The producers strongly suggested that Alex is just Ben's adopted daughter, not his biological daughter in the 02/12/07 Podcast. --Jackdavinci 09:43, 13 February 2007 (PST)

X-RAYS

I've been wondering if anyone has attempted to get a clear reading of the information on the X-rays?
--Kilgore Trout 17:54, 13 February 2007 (PST)

If you mean Ben's X-rays then I don't know. If you mean the CT scans Juliet saw in this episode, see CT scans of the 26 year old woman. But basically, all we can see is the word "target" and some numerical data. Although it's possible there's a higher def capture out there. --Jackdavinci 22:25, 13 February 2007 (PST)

ID Card

Did anyone capture a screenshot of Rachel's keycard she uses to access the lab when she goes to steal the medicine? It was very quick, but I do remember several words on the keycard. Perhaps this is the other easter egg?

There's one [5] but all it says is:

MIAMI CENTRAL UNIVERSITY
MEDICAL RESEARCH LAB
RESTRICTED ACCESS CARD
RESEARCH LAB A-4

--Jackdavinci 22:30, 13 February 2007 (PST)

The Brainwashing Scene Backwards

Just watch the brainwashing scene backwards, or if you are too lazy, watch this: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16l6b_newbrain

"Only fools are enslaved by time and space."

Sounds pretty much like the teased clue we all missed...

This is already covered in the Room 23 article.

The Secret Clue and How it sheds light on the Adam & Eve Skeletons

The Producers talked about two secret clues in this episode that sheds light on Adam and Eve skeletons and the secret clues in this episode that was found are that mittelos means "Lost Time" and the backward voice in "Room 23" that says only fools get enslaved by time and space so does it mean that Adam and Eve are characters on the show that we know that didn't get enslaved by time and space?--Shalaulakh 12:26, 15 February 2007 (PST)

I know that they confirmed that the anagram is mittelos=lost time in the latest podcast, but do you have a link to exactly what they said about what hints there would be besides anagram and what they would reveal? --Jackdavinci

Trust

I find it strange that suddenly Juliet trusts Ben when he says he will let her off the island. Would be more belivable if he was threatening her

Jack also has no reason to believe Juliet when she tells him she is going to help his friends. --lostp 00:34, 22 February 2007 (PST)

Juliet has been trying to get Ben pregnant

• The womb in Dr. Alpert's slide is Ben's!

  Juliet impregnated a male field mouse, but the mouse didn't carry to term. Rachel became pregnant thanks to Juliet's treatment, but Rachel is also sick. Juliet's treatment could be the cause of Ben's tumour.

  Alex is not Ben's real daughter. Ben wants children of his own, possibly the genetic combination of himself and another male parent. This could be part of a breeding program related to good and bad people. It may be due to the need to procreate from a small genetic pool; i.e. just people on the List.

  The necessary experiments are unethical, and could not be carried out in the 'real' world. This is why Ben needed to find someone prepared to carry out unethical research (Juliet), bring her to the island, and keep her there even against her will. This is the 'history' between Ben and Juliet.

  The Others kidnapped Claire to carry out some genetic engineering on Aaron. Once Claire got away, their experiments were foiled, so they lost interest in Aaron. This might account for the resemblance between Ben and Thomas (Aaron's father); there is a genetic link.

  Burt Gummer 16:11, 17 March 2007 (PDT)

Portland Metatheme?

Okay, so Richard wants to take Juliet "outside of Portland" to solve a fertility problem. Ben's mother died "outside of Portland"...another fertility problem? Is Ben externalizing on the island some effect out of guilt or anger over his mother dying? --Frenkmelk 21:45, 5 January 2008 (PST)

Mr. Alpert

I just watched "Not in Portland" via ABC and I pretty sure Juliet calls Alpert "Mr." at least twice.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk

Medical Terminology

Jack doesn't say Ben has "one week" to live, he says that in "one week" it'll be too late to perform surgery. --Christian BC 23:23, 25 December 2008 (UTC)Christian BC

19:49, 17 December 2008 (PST)

1st other flashback?

it says this is the first falshback of an other episode, but isnt it A TALE OF TWO CITIES instead?Four4elements 05:49, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

It's the first full Others flashback. --Golden Monkey 17:00, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

This is the first and only episode that does not show the Island?

I don't understand this statement. Does it mean no scenes on the island are shown? Or the island isn't shown at all? Because we see the island at the end when Kate and Sawyer are paddling back to it.. --Robbie 00:09, September 13, 2009 (UTC)