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Picture of the first puzzle

Is there anyway of getting a better picture of the puzzel up? im almost done making mine, but a clearer picture would help the process along. --TimDM85 (Talk) ~~

  • Ideally take the photo:
  1. from directly above
  2. from at least several feet away to reduce perspective distortion
  3. two light sources at 45 degrees on either side, angled so that glare does not go into camera. Might be hard with the nubby edge surfaces of the pieces, but at least the main part of each piece won't glare up.
  4. If you use home (tungsten or halogen) lighting, autocorrect color balance since it will appear too 'warm'.
-- Contrib¯ _Santa_ ¯  Talk 17:25, 11 September 2006 (PDT)

Damn, im missing one piece of the puzzle --TimDM85 (Talk) ~~

Back of the Puzzles

Has anyone figured out a way to take a picture that can be read? We should figure it out by the time the fourth puzzle comes out because there is more writting on that one that we couldn't see in the show. ----Poppin' Fresh

Has anyone translated what the numbers could mean? Are they basic computer code, some other kind of code? Any ideas? I haven't seen much talk regarding those clues, if indeed they are anything. --Brother 17:17, 9 October 2006 (PDT)

Poppin' Fresh, I have found a way to take a picture of the back of the puzzle that you can read. If you have a tripod and digital camera with a manual setting where you can adjust the F-stop and shutter speed, you are all set. Here are the settings I used on my Canon PowerShot A95: F-Stop - 2.8 Shutter speed - 15 seconds Flash - off

Here is how I took the picture: Set up the camera on a tripod about 2 feet away from the puzzle. Set the camera to the settings above. You also want to set the shutter timer to 10 second (this delays the shutter from opening until 10 seconds after the shutter button was pressed). Next you want to shine a very bright light on the puzzle for about 5 minutes. I used a 75 watt flood light about 3 feet directly above the puzzle. Right before you turn off the light, press the shutter button half way down to focus. Once it's focused press the shutter button all the way down. Turn off the light, and allow the camera to take the picture 10 seconds later being careful not to bump anything. That should be it.

Happy photographing!! Shermy

  • Want to give a special thanks to User:Rocket0423 for uploading great pictures of the backs of the puzzles. Many of us tried, but none got results as clear as the job you did. --PandoraX 05:24, 21 January 2007 (PST)

Rocket0423 - Awesome job on the photos!! I'm glad someone was finally able to get to this. --Shermy 15:40, 01 February 2007 (CST)

Note: It's come to my attention that this image is not taken by Rocket (thank you, Maagic, 4815162342.com for these very nice photos and allowing us to continue to use them). For difficult projects such as this, it's really netiquette to leave a comment in the edit notes about where the original source is from, especially since these were taken without permission originally. --PandoraX 07:09, 2 March 2007 (PST)

The pictures that were shot of the back of the first 3 puzzles were not from the site 4815162342.com I took these picutres myself. Rocket0423

SRMHI Connection with Others in #2

Can someone get a better picture of the sign shown in the middle left side of puzzle #2? It says "Rec Room Rules: Listen and Respect Others", and is shown in the screencap I included from "Dave". It is strangely out of place in a puzzle which is otherwise entirely about the Others, with no explanation given. I'd like to get a side by side comparison of the two. Thanks!

--PandoraX 18:32, 3 October 2006 (PDT)

Is there anything on the back of those particular pieces that may be a clue, or could be revmoed/discounted from the blast door map?ASEO 09:36, 30 October 2006 (PST)

The "C-Numbers"

The only thing that can explain that list of "c-numbers" is this website (but on the net there are a lot like this one): list of genes. If the genes are really involved, we can suppose that Dharma also studies human genoma. --andreapasotti, 15 December 2006

  • I don't think we can assume that. I've worked in genetics, and there's nothing in particular about "c-numbers"; geneticists (as many scientists who have to assign codes to a variety of things) use a huge number of letters and numbers when naming genes. I don't think there's any significance aside from the fact that as a result of this, genetics sites frequently pop up on google when searching for random combinations of letters and numbers. --PandoraX 05:21, 21 January 2007 (PST)
  • PS: I looked at the above link, and in that case, the R & C numbers I think are just organic chemistry nomentclature, where R=alkyl group, and C=carbon number. In other words, the C-numbers would make no sense taken alone, without the Rs, and they describe the probes used, not naming genes themselves. --PandoraX 05:34, 21 January 2007 (PST)

Release Date - Fourth Puzzle

On January 26th, I received the following reply from "Sara" (sales@tdcgames.com) when I asked about the release date of the 4th puzzle:

Thank you for your inquiry with us. The availability for Lost #4 puzzle will begin shipping to retailers in less than two weeks.

--Iagomonk 12:02, 26 January 2007 (PST)

As of February 8th, the puzzle is available directly from TDCGames, on their website. I called them to confirm the information is true, and placed an order! NOTE: the minimum shipping was $10 UPS

--Iagomonk 13:06, 8 February 2007 (PST)

I looked on Amazon.com and they have the puzzle as well. The only problem is that is says that it isn't available until November. Although once you select the shipment type it says the delivery date is in Feb. I don't know if this is correct or not, but I'm still going to order it from there. I'll know next week. Let me know because I'll probably be done with it quickly like the others. Poppin' Fresh feb. 14 2007

PUZZLE 4 HAS ARRIVED!!!!! I will complete it by this weekend and have pictures up as soon as it is done. Unfortunately I still can't take pics of the back so that will have to wait until someone else has finished it. Poppin' Fresh feb. 20 2007

Glow in the dark Backs

Can someone type up what is all on the connected backs of the 3 puzzles? I only have Puzzles 1 and 2, and am working on finishing #2. However, I'd still like to try to decipher the code of random "c-numbers"--but everything in this article is so disjointed, it is hard to visually place what goes where. The pictures are great, but they don't provide enough detail for be to be able to transcribe them. Thanks, David 06:49, 29 January 2007 (PST)

French Classic??? But which one?

Un vis Classique, Chapitre et Vers

  • My French is rusty, but that says "A Classic: Chapter and Verse". Wow! So these codes MUST be chapter and verse ciphers... but not from the books we have tried to date (Bad Twin, Bible, Our Mutual Friend)... they're probably from a French classic is my guess? Something Danielle would read, maybe? I just don't know what... any guesses? Anything we can look up on Project Guttenberg? --PandoraX 19:20, 22 February 2007 (PST)
  • Are we sure that the last word is "vers"? I don't have a better idea, but the text is not clear. (For example, compare the sharp "V" in "vis.") --Jburnson 13:00, 26 February 2007 (PST)
  • Also: "vis" ("screw") in French is feminine. So the text should read "une." Is this a production error? Are we misreading the text? Or is the coder not actually a practiced writer of French? Could "vis" be hasty short-hand for something? "Vision"? "Visitor"? --Jburnson 13:00, 26 February 2007 (PST)
  • It also means force in latin, and fish in a couple other languages.  —Thinker   12:41, 26 February 2007 (PST)

It is French, and a free translator online translated it as "A Classical Screw" which someone suggested was a reference to "A Turn of the Screw" I don't know if it has enough chapters though. Also how would the codes like C3/ 2+2 be read? Chapter 3 word 2 or word 4? Poppin' Fresh

  • Wrote this on the other page, but I think it's a different "vis" (like "vis-a-vis", face to face), and used as a preposition or something. I'm going to check with a French friend... I think he will be happy to help (also loves Lost). --PandoraX 19:31, 22 February 2007 (PST)

I know that translating another language is difficult, because based on the context the words can mean different things. I just searched for "vis classique" and I found an abstract from a book and here is how it is professionally translated: "Grace aux 2 crochets venant en direction opposées se fixer dans l'os sous-chondral le eTwin Hookf apporte des qualités de stabilité différentes de celles de la vis classique." "With two oppositely directed apical hooks introduced into the subchondral bone of the femoral head, the twin hook provides different stabilising properties to the lag screw." Now I doubt that either word means "lag", but still they use it as screw. I'm just trying to follow any lead. I'll know more when I talk to an actual French person tomorrow. Poppin' Fresh 21:36, 22 February 2007 (PST)

  • Marik, actually that's a good idea also, though it hasn't made the Lost literary works list yet. BTW, I found A Turn of the Screw online: link ; assuming the first set of codes is correct (and it may not be, see below), that may not be it... I did a few of the first words, and it doesn't make much sense so far...
The impression I fully I beginning as took me fully I lessons just...
--PandoraX 05:49, 23 February 2007 (PST)

EDIT: Tried it again on TotS with the 'corrected' sequence (see below), still doesn't make sense for this book... I'll try some more soon:

The impression I fully it me threw it me...

--PandoraX 06:16, 23 February 2007 (PST)

  • I tried Count of Monte Cristo, unfortunately, another dead end, I think. :( I also rechecked Our Mutual Friend, in case the messed up order of the code (below) affected it, still no luck.
M. for visit presence in struggling the in struggling

--PandoraX 06:25, 23 February 2007 (PST)

They began and single the had...

--PandoraX 06:42, 23 February 2007 (PST)

  • btw here's a paraphrasing of something I posted to Mac_ad's talk page... It may be irrelevant regarding "verse" though, so ignore me if I'm way off base, since I haven't kept up with the jigsaw puzzles:
Also note that two more books were seen in 3x08 (A Brief History of Time and Laughter in the Dark). However both of these seem too short. Somehow I am thinking it may not be a fictional novel from the Swan, but maybe something more central to the mythology of the series, as far as recurring themes. I was thinking of names from Philosophy, in particular books by David Hume, Jean-Jeaques Rousseau, and John Locke... or even Edmund Burke. I bet some of them wrote books with >26 chapters. Arguably John Locke's most famous work is An Essay Concerning Humane Understanding, which comes in four volumes. Here is part 1 (vol 1 & 2), and here is part 2 (vol 3 & 4). (Source: Project Gutenberg). As you can see there are plenty of chapters. Vol 1 has 3 chapters, Vol II has 33 chapters, Vol III has 11 chapters, and Vol IV has 21 chapters. Similarly you can see Hume's A Treatise of Human Nature here. -- Contrib¯ _Santa_ ¯  Talk  07:05, 23 February 2007 (PST)

Correct sequence of C codes

Unfortunately the C codes on the lostpedia page are wrong. It seems that somebody who doesn't own the puzzle tried to read the (low resolution) images and recognize the writing, but made a lot of mistakes. For instance, the article suggests that the codes start with:

C12/1+3 C14/8 C21/9 C1/1 C1/5 C7/7  C6/2 C2/5 ...

But another website quotes an email from P0pnfresh2002 (who I believe is a Lostpedia user as well) with the following codes:

C12/1+3 C14/8 C21/9 C6/1 C2/5 C7/37 C6/1 C2/5 ...
                     *    *      *     *

Notice how almost every other code is different! I believe the lostpedia article is wrong (and the other website is right), because if you see the picture, it's clearly C7/37 and not C7/7, etc.

I spotted some errors on the other maps as well, but I don't know what the correct values are, because there are no high-resolution pictures. However, we don't really need the pictures: Can someone who owns the puzzles (P0pnfresh2002?) please read the codes carefully and post them here? Then, we can use classic cryptanalytic techniques (word frequencies, etc) to make some progress. But right now the codes are wrong, so even if we find the vis classique, we won't go far. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thinker (talkcontribs) .

  • Thinker, LOL... that is me (Cecilia who writes over at lostblog). I think the problem was that the ones he originally emailed me are actually wrong, and he wrote me a second email to correct them. I have to remember which one is the correct sequence, and correct the mistake... I think you are right, it's probably the lostpedia version. --PandoraX 05:49, 23 February 2007 (PST)
  • Squinting at the photograph, it looks like the second sequence Thinker posted above is probably the more correct one of the two, so I went ahead and made the edit on lostpedia. However, I would appreciate it if someone with the actual puzzles would look and check also, I only did one, and it's packed away now.--PandoraX 06:04, 23 February 2007 (PST)
  • Thanks, I'll see if I can manually curate the rest of the codes by integrating all sources. --Thinker 11:06, 23 February 2007 (PST)

There are some numbers that are very easy to read, but there are others that are more difficult to read. I tried my best to read them correctly before I posted them. It would help if people who finished the puzzles gives their input and we can agree on a sequence. I can't think I'm the only one that finished all the puzzles. I really wish I knew how to take the pics but I'm still unable to do so. Good luck to everyone putting the puzzle together. --Poppin' Fresh 17:10, 23 February 2007 (PST)

  • I see... Thanks for your heroic effort so far. It appears that there are some inconsistencies; for example, the code at the left side of pattern 2 is reported to end in "C11/", but as the picture suggests, there is a number after it. Moreover, the code at the left side of pattern 4 is supposed to pick up where pattern 2 left, and it starts with "C8/2..." (so it's a new C code, therefore the C11/ must have ended). Can anyone see what the missing number is? --Thinker 19:37, 23 February 2007 (PST)

Underlined

Just thought I'd make note of this as well, as I was looking at the images again. It appears some of them are underlined, while others are not? --PandoraX 05:54, 23 February 2007 (PST)

  • I was going to bring that up, too. They probably mark the beginning of a sentence. This meta-information should be carried over to the published code sequence somehow (maybe introduce a special mark, or hit enter before every underlined code so that underlined codes are always the first of each line). --Thinker 11:06, 23 February 2007 (PST)
  • Good thoughts, thinker. The other thing I was thinking is... here I am looking all this up by Chapter and then WORD. But it says verse.... so would prose have verses? The only things I know catelogued by verse are scripture and poetry. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but maybe I'm not looking it up the right way. Oh, and yes, maybe that would be helpful to have someone put a bunch of it together, with it typed out, but with underlined sections underlined and sections relative to where they are on the big map. Quite a job. --PandoraX 16:38, 23 February 2007 (PST)
  • Verse actually means "line of text". So you should be looking for lines, not words. I wouldn't be surprised if code Ci/j turns out be chapter i, first word of line j. --Thinker 19:43, 23 February 2007 (PST)
  • I'm not sure that the underlined words mark the starts of sentences. For example, in the first image, you wouldn't need underlines to have a good idea of where the lines begin. Maybe the underlines represent entries in a category? (I would guess "names of hatches," but I think that there are more underlined words than there are hatches.) --jburnson


Curation process

I have started manually curating the codes. Note that I do not own the puzzles; I can only integrate various sources including the current codes as reported on Lostpedia, other websites/forums where users have written the codes, and of course the pictures (the third being the most reliable source). From the first puzzle you guys were missing a whole two lines (from the top right part of the picture); I added them from here. In the second puzzle I spotted some gross mistakes; there is a code which misses a digit (the picture clearly shows two digits), and there is the missing digit at the end. Also I kinda disagree with some of the digits (especially some instances of "1" seem like "2" to me, based on the picture), but I didn't make any changes. The third puzzle also had a missing digit (I replaced it with a star until we have something better). Unfortunately I don't have any pictures from the rear of puzzle #4. --Thinker 22:23, 23 February 2007 (PST)

  • Excellent job, Thinker! Hopefully someone with the original puzzles will take a look and confirm/make changes. Unfortunately what happens a lot on Lostpedia with complicated things is, someone adds it, and then everyone assumes it's right for a long time before someone double checks it. We appreciate you not taking it for granted. --PandoraX 07:39, 24 February 2007 (PST)
  • Oh, I just noticed we'll be Featured Article of the Week starting tomorrow! It's a great opportunity; hopefully more people who own the puzzles and see this will be able to contribute. --Thinker 18:53, 25 February 2007 (PST)

David, though I agree with most of your changes, are you sure about changing C18/5 (the eleventh word of puzzle #2 left) to C11/5? To me that "1" looks more like an "8". --Thinker 01:55, 26 February 2007 (PST)

French "Classics"

I found a list of French novels on wikipedia, next best thing to a list of classics. Here is the link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:French_novels ). Sorry, I should know how to link to wikipedia correctly, but I don't. Hope it helps. David 20:08, 25 February 2007 (PST)

  • Thanks, David. To link directly to wikipedia, just type out [[Wikipedia:French_novels]]; if you are feeling ambitious, you can pipe wikify ([[Wikipedia:French novels|French novels]] shows up as French novels). --PandoraX 03:26, 26 February 2007 (PST)

List of Books already tried

Discussion

To limit the books/classics/novels etc. tried by everyone, why not make a list of the literary works that have already been tried, so your fellow Lostpedians don't do work you've already done? If you've checked a literary work, and it doesn't work, add it to the list below David 20:10, 25 February 2007 (PST).

  • Example David 20:10, 25 February 2007 (PST)
  • Addendum: If it's a foreign language work, note what language was the version you tried (e.g. was it in the original French, or translated to English?) -- Contrib¯ _Santa_ ¯  Talk  22:13, 25 February 2007 (PST)
  • However, if something is tried and doesn't work, we might have to retry later. For instance, we discovered some discrepancies recently (two versions of puzzle #1 code) and people might have been trying the wrong version for a while! --Thinker 01:41, 26 February 2007 (PST)
  • I think this could be a good idea but didn't do it for exactly the same reasons as Thinker mentioned--what if someone does this wrong, will it never be double-checked, will it just be glossed over as a possibility? For example, I have been checking a lot of books for chapter and WORD (rather than verse, see above, this is probably not right). However, I'll create a quick template for what I got, and sign my attempts; this way people will know exactly what I tried. --PandoraX 03:22, 26 February 2007 (PST)
  • Which c-code string is being used to test these works? Tinman 05:37, 26 February 2007 (PST) +
  • Hey Tinman, I just edited this into the table instructions below, but I'm starting with Puzzle #1 string to test them...--PandoraX 05:43, 26 February 2007 (PST)
  • It could be one of the books of Dante's Divine Comedy. Each book is comprised of 33 cantos of three verses each, 33 encompassing all the first segments of the c-codes, followed by the word in each verse (i.e. "C12/1+3" = Canto XII words 1 and 3). The challenge is in testing it against many English translations, as well as the original cursive Italian. There are Dante parallels on the show, most notably Cerberus and the concept of purgatory. Tinman 05:37, 26 February 2007 (PST)
  • And the island of Purgatory is a screw (it's a road that twists around a mountain). --Jburnson 13:03, 26 February 2007 (PST)
  • I've got some Italian Dante deciphered and added to the table, but I don't speak Italian. If anyone can help out, that would be great. --Tinman 02:49, 27 February 2007 (PST)
  • I'm Italian, unfortunately the phrases deciphered have no sense. --Sabbath 15:20, 27 February 2007 (PST)

Suggestions

  • Check list: Literary references for references found throughout Lost
  • French classics
  • Titles which contain the word "Lost"
  • Books which are itemized by verse (poetry, scripture)


Resources for complete online books

These are a few I've used. Please add more.

Table usage

After attempting, cut and paste the the following (and replace fields) below:

{{PuzzleAttempts
|book=Exact book title, no brackets (autowikifies if there's an LP article, or finds link on Wikipedia)
|link=URL of online book
|method=Method used (Chapter and word, chapter and line, etc)
|results=First few words from Puzzle #1 code--C12/1+3 C14/8 C21/9 C6/1 C2/5 C7/37 C6/1 C2/5
}}
--~~~~

Table

Book title Online book link Method Results User (Sign name outside template)


The Turn of the Screw link to online book Chapter & word

The impression I fully it me threw it me...

--PandoraX 04:54, 26 February 2007 (PST)


The Count of Monte Cristo link to online book Chapter & word

M. for visit presence in struggling the in struggling...

--PandoraX 04:54, 26 February 2007 (PST)


Our Mutual Friend link to online book Chapter & word

Mr. Lightwood cold Mrs. the were...

--PandoraX 04:54, 26 February 2007 (PST)


The Mysterious Island link to online book Chapter & word

They began and single the had...

--PandoraX 04:54, 26 February 2007 (PST)


An Essay Concerning Human Understanding link to online book Chapter & word

if second relation shown I our particular I...

-- Contrib¯ _Santa_ ¯  Talk  15:01, 26 February 2007 (PST)


The Brothers Karamazov link to online book Chapter & word

Alyosha Father in Fyodr it what...

-- Contrib¯ _Santa_ ¯  Talk  15:07, 26 February 2007 (PST)


A Tale of Two Cities link to online book Chapter & word

The lodgings in the good road moral the road the...

--Marik7772003 16:28, 26 February 2007 (PST)


The Three Musketeers link to online book Chapter & word

Mme. and expectation draw this his...

--Marik7772003 17:56, 26 February 2007 (PST)


The Hunchback of Notre Dame link to online book Chapter & word

After run no we them to we them...

--Marik7772003 18:04, 26 February 2007 (PST)


The Divine Comedy, Inferno - Italian link to online book Chapter & word

Era loco mi la al andava questa al andava

Tinman 02:46, 27 February 2007 (PST)


The Divine Comedy, Inferno - Longfellow translation link to online book Chapter & word

The where Constrained Of at the have at the

Tinman 02:46, 27 February 2007 (PST)


The Divine Comedy, Purgatorio - Italian link to online book Chapter & word

Di come cerchia non Quando a per Quando a

Tinman 02:46, 27 February 2007 (PST)


The Divine Comedy, Purgatorio - Longfellow translation link to online book Chapter & word

Abreast oxen our with Whene'er the bones Whene'er the

Tinman 02:46, 27 February 2007 (PST)


The Divine Comedy, Paradiso - Italian link to online book Chapter & word

Si` come cerchio de Poscia in sua Poscia in

Tinman 02:46, 27 February 2007 (PST)


The Divine Comedy, Paradiso - Longfellow translation link to online book Chapter & word

Soon the centre were after some dance after some

Tinman 02:46, 27 February 2007 (PST)


Appendix

Books that do not have enough chapters: (list below)

...

Code analysis

Well, the code has been changing a bit lately, so until we finalize it you may have to take this with a grain of salt. I figured I'd gather some simple statistics (as of 04:44, 26 February 2007 (PST)):

  • Each code is of the form Cx/y or Cx/y+z, where x, y and z are numbers.
  • There are 186 codes. Some codes appear exactly once, whereas others appear more than once. If we remove duplicates, there are 75 unique codes.
  • In other words, we have an "alphabet" of 75 different symbols, which are used to describe a sequence of size 186.
  • Therefore, each code does not signify a single letter, because if that was the case we wouldn't need 75 different symbols, and the encoded message would only be 186 letters long. Thus we can hypothesize that each code refers to a word (or two); there are 75 different words encoding a text of about 186 words.
  • It is hypothesized that code Cx/y might refer to:
  • Chapter x, word y
  • Chapter x, line y, first word
  • It is hypothesized that Cx/y+z might refer to:
  • A shortcut for "Cx/y Cx/z".
  • Initial analysis has invalidated this hypothesis. Indeed, if the hypothesis is true, then we do not expect any occurences of the form "Cx/y Cx/z" (i.e. two consecutive codes with the same x), as these would have been combined into a single code. However, the text contains "C8/8 C8/2" (instead of C8/8+2), "C7/37 C7/1" (instead of C7/37+1), etc.
  • The word that Cx/y would refer to, followed by the z-th word after it.
  • This interpretation is supported by the fact that, in the two exceptions listed above ("C8/8 C8/2" and "C7/37 C7/1"), the second verse is earlier than the first, so the writer would have had to use a "-" (to count backwards) instead of a "+". --Jburnson 13:01, 26 February 2007 (PST)
  • The minimum value of x is 1, and the maximum is 31. Therefore, we are looking for a book with at least 31 chapters.
  • hmmmmm.... 1-31? Sounds like that might be part of a date, say a day of a month perhaps? Not sure how that might work into it though. - LoStObSeSsEd
  • The most common code is C14/8 (appears 10 times). Even though the most common English word is "the", it is unlikely that it is encoded by C14/8, because in one of the segments this code appears at the end.
  • It's interesting that one code needed to be repeated so often. That implies that the word is uncommon enough that the original material had only one mention. And yet the word is important enough for our text to have appeared 10 times. Perhaps the word is "numbers"? --Jburnson 13:01, 26 February 2007 (PST)
  • In 4 of 10 occasions, C14/8 is followed by C21/9. There are only seven occurrences of C21/9 overall; four follow C14/8, and one precedes C14/8 (and appears to start a sentence). --Jburnson 13:01, 26 February 2007 (PST)

Feel free to add your thoughts.  —Thinker   04:44, 26 February 2007 (PST)

  • Nice puzzle-solving analysis! You really live up to your name :) I still am confused by the y+z notations, though, why would they not just write Cx/y and then Cx/z? It also seems a bit strange as shorthand. That's what leads me to think there may be an issue in how we're approaching this, though it's gotta be generally chapter & verse. --PandoraX 05:09, 26 February 2007 (PST)
  • There are some interesting sequences. For example, the first line has the pattern "A B C D E F D E." The "D E" appears twice. The codes with the "+" are also odd. The second line has a sequence of "C12/1+3 C12/6+5 C12/2" -- five (of the first 11?) words in one line? A few lines below, there is "C10/1+1 C10/1+2 C10/4" -- five (of the first 4?) words in one line? --Jburnson 13:01, 26 February 2007 (PST)
  • The "chapters" (or whatever is represented by "x") are not evenly distributed. Although the maximum is 31, there are only four occurrences above 21. Chapter 10 is the most heavily mentioned, followed by 7 and 14. Chapters 4, 17, and 19 never appear, and 13 and 15 appear only once. Are those chapters (in the source text) shorter? Technical? Missing? --Jburnson 13:01, 26 February 2007 (PST)
  • The distribution of "verses" is similarly skewed. In fact, I'm not sure that we are dealing with words. Of the 186 codes, 22 are the first "word" in their chapter (i.e., "x/1"), and 33 are the second word ("x/2"). And that's not even counting the codes with "+". Is it plausible that the coder found a text where 30% of the needed words fall in the first or second "whatever" of the "whatever"? --Jburnson 13:01, 26 February 2007 (PST)
  • I tried working backwards. I made up a few short, simple statements and tried coding them by chapter/word in Turn of the Screw and The Divide Comedy (Purgatory). Most of the words in my made up statements are not in The Divide Comedy (words like demon, haunt, midnight, number, ship, etc.). So I'm posting the results for Turn of the Screw only:
  • demons haunt the day
  • c12/528 c6/1268 c1/3 c1/41
  • entering numbers spell your death
  • c14/1031 c10/958 c4/1189 c2/1239 c 3/1708
  • danger midnight at the black ship
  • c6 /1706 c6 /935 c1 /33 c1 /3 c7 /233 c1/1719
  • These are pretty big numbers and are not at all like the code on the puzzle pieces. Perhaps there are three possibilities: (1), the code works well if the right book is choosen (the necessary words happen to be early in every chapter), (2), the code isn't describing words, but letters or lines or something else, or (3), the producers choose a book and selected words that make a sentence OK, but have to be sort of forced together to work well. Never in making this example code did I feel the need to use a c2/1+1 format.Brandon 19:11, 26 February 2007 (PST)


  • All C codes give a one letter answer. For example C 13/2+2 will only give you one letter, not two.----Pamela


(New lostpedia users editing this: Please sign your comments, otherwise this section will get a little messy. Type four tildes at the end of your comment to add your nickname and a timestamp  —Thinker   12:25, 26 February 2007 (PST)).

Proust, why not?

  • There's another French Classic that could be relevant to the show, especially in the light of FBYE'S time travels and the anagram: "A la recherche du temps perdu", translated into English In search of lost time by Marcel Proust. The novel consists of 7 volumes, a few of them can be found here [1] and here (in English) [2].--Shitoby 08:43, 26 February 2007 (PST)
  • Ok, add to the above chart if you used it as a cipher, please. I'm not going to, because I'm not sure how the chapters would work. --PandoraX 08:55, 26 February 2007 (PST)
  • This work stood out to me, too. Especially since the first book involves someone named "Swann." Also, Jack Kerouac was a big fan, calling to it as a "crowning achievement" and refers to it in his works. Kerouac's "On The Road" is listed on the Lost Inspiration section of the official site as one of the writer's all-time favourite books. The only problem is I can only divide the work up in 17 sections so it doesn't seem to work with these chapters/verses.Silent rob 16:02, 26 February 2007 (PST)

Language of books used as cipher

I think that we have to use the original french version of the books, because the order of the words is different from the translation. --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sabbath (talkcontribs) 18:11, 26 February 2007.

Dharma Protocol no stations past security barrier

What does that mean? Is there any chance it's a clue as to which book is the cipher? Maybe an anagram, or a rough translation? -BearDog 15:20, 26 February 2007 (PST)

Interesting...To tell you the truth, I don't really understand any of this "book cipher" stuff. But that looks as if it could contain something of interest. Perhaps it could be rearanged into a different word ordering? --Gateboy42 15:56, 26 February 2007 (PST)
I haven't really tried to see if i can help with the code although i will later, but that sentence, the one thing that stands out to me is the last letter of each word. " A Losty R" Maybe it's nothing but perhaps it's referring to Rose the only really Losty with a name starting with R. Perhaps someone can think of an adequate book thats deals with Roses or flowers or something. I have no idea if this has anything to do with it or not, but just thought I would throw it out there. -Mr.Leaf 17:03, 26 February 2007 (PST)
Maybe "The name of the rose" by Umberto Eco. Sabbath 2:13, 27 February 2007 (PST)
The chapter structure in The Name of the Rose isn't organised by a traditional numbering system, but named for the monks's prayer times (vespers, compline. etc.), which will make deciphering pretty difficult. Interestingly, when I opened up my copy the first thing I saw was the map of the library, which is central to the mystery of the story. A bit similar to the blast door map, but moreso its funtion in the mystery of Lost. --Tinman 03:16, 27 February 2007 (PST)
Well, I had a thought, why is this clue in French, and not German or some other language? Maybe it's pointing to something by that real-life poet named Jean-Jacques Rousseau? And yes, I know I'm probably missing something here... --Gateboy42 17:19, 26 February 2007 (PST)
  • I think the stations part is just a part of the original blast door map that got cut off in Locke's view (by the door). --PandoraX 20:16, 26 February 2007 (PST)

If each station is an experiment, then they would need to monitor it from somewhere. The "real" researchers might be set up past a barrier that stops them from getting involved with the test subjects. It might also be protecting them from Cerberus.--Poppin' Fresh 17:11, 27 February 2007 (PST)

Purgatory

And if the book was the Dante's Purgatory? The letter C can be the beginning of the word "canto" which corresponds to the word "chapter". Sabbath 2:40, 27 February 2007 (PST)

  • I thought of that, too. And Purgatory has a fitting number of "chapters" (33). The problem is, Was this (possibly not proficient) writer of French referring to the Italian text? In my cursory analysis, the Italian text doesn't fit well with the code. I did find references online to French translations of the tale, but then you get to the question of, Which translation? Also, Dante appears to not be a favorite writer of the French, for whatever that's worth. --Jburnson 20:07, 26 February 2007 (PST)

Cipher Decoded!

  • New to posting to lostpedia, so I'm not sure if this is the appropriate spot or not. For those who wish to figure out the C-codes themselves, READ NO FURTHER.


  • The Book (or key) is The Turn of the Screw. I personally used the Barnes and Noble Classics version of this book after having no luck with the online version.
  • The Code works on Chapter-Paragraph basis. For example C 14/8 is Chapter 14, the first letter from the 8th paragraph.
  • Multiple numbers in the second set work in a Chapter-Paragraph-Letter Sequence. For example C13/2+2 is Chapter 13, 2nd paragraph, 2nd letter over from the first letter of the paragraph. So the 2 in this instance actually ends up as the third letter over in the paragraph.

Pamela--Thebrothersworld 01:52, 27 February 2007 (PST)
  • Wow, that's great, Pamela! I think as far as most of us concerned, we just want to know the answers, whoever gets them. So what are the answers that you ended up getting? What do the letters spell when you string them together... is that how we know it's correct? --PandoraX 04:03, 27 February 2007 (PST)
  • Wow, it works! (I used the text at Wikisource.) -- Cheers 05:40, 27 February 2007 (PST)
  • I have decoded the first three lines using this key: "PERIODIC RESUPPLY DROP" :--Jburnson 07:49, 27 February 2007 (PST)
  • This is my first post here, too. I hope this isn't screwed up or anything, since I have never edited a wiki page. Anyway, I decoded some of the lines, too. I don't have the puzzles myself so I can't really check, but some of the numbers in Lostpedia seem to be wrong, as some numbers don't produce a word that makes any sense. That might be my own mistake too, though. I've tried to change some of the letters so the text would make more sense, so the texts may not be 100% right, but here's some of them.
  • Puzzle 1
  periodic
  resupply
  drop
  
  alvar
  hanso
  
  what good is
  peanut
  butter and
  cereal
  without
  milk
  • Puzzle 2
  cerberus vent
  emergency . . . (couldn't decode the rest)
  • Puzzle 3 - I couldn't do anything. Nothing seemed to make sense. I'll maybe try again later.
  • Puzzle 4
  there is no sickness
  need more mc and cheese (mc?)

I hope this helped in any way, especially those who are curious but still lazy enough not to do anything themselves. ;) --BaZuKa 08:14, 27 February 2007 (PST)


  • Excellent job, guys. I am also having trouble with puzzle 3, it must be misread, but we'll go back to that soon... ... but the MC I'm sure is Mac and Cheese (it was in the supply drop) --PandoraX 08:41, 27 February 2007 (PST)
  • Well done to everybody thats helped decode!! Its a shame theres nothing more concrete or spoilerish in the code though :( but still, job well done! --Lewis-Talk-Contribs 08:44, 27 February 2007 (PST)
  • Well, we're not done yet, Lewis, so we don't really know what it all means yet, because half of it is still in the works... Also, we do now know "PRD" stands for Periodic Resupply Drop", which a lot of people hypothesized, but now we know for sure they come ever 6-8 months. --PandoraX 09:26, 27 February 2007 (PST)



I tried decoding the right side (puzzles #1 and #3), but I get the following.

  Eharma - could be Dharma
  Wnitittive - could be Inititive
  Wawso - closest I could think of is Hanso
  Gryup - not a clue on this one (Fryup?)

Any clues anyone? (By the way, it could be mac and cheese for puzzle 4. --Noemis 09:17, 27 February 2007 (PST)

  • Good job Noemis... I think those letters must be DHARMA Initiative, Hanso Group... Hanso Group was from The Lost Experience, it is the larger organization that encompasses The Hanso Foundation and put out the newspapers. Oh yes, and it's definitely Mac and Cheese (this was in one of the episode screencaps). I am also getting this for Puzzle #2 under CERBERUS VENT EMERGENCY:
EISATRP
I think I must be a letter or two off, I suspect it says something IS A TRAP.
I'll be in chat if anyone wants to talk about this. --PandoraX 09:26, 27 February 2007 (PST)
  • I just tried those lines (continuing onto the Puzzle 4), and got Eidatr Photocot - can't get first word, second word could be Protocol.--Noemis 09:37, 27 February 2007 (PST)
  • For codes that don't make sense, if they have a 1 (or a 2), try a 2 (or a 1) instead. These digits were the hardest to read, and they might be wrong.  —Thinker   10:22, 27 February 2007 (PST)
  • I've been going through and trying both 1 and 2 for some of those, and I think that clears some of them. Here is another I got for Puzzle #3, the unsolved portion:
TLASANTINEAATHIE
The first word appears to be "QUARANTINE" and maybe AT THE or AT THIS, but I'm not certain of this yet, please do not post to front page. --PandoraX 12:06, 27 February 2007 (PST)
  • Puzzle #2 is translated to CERBERUS VENT EMERGENCY ESCAPE PR(OTOCOL). The OTOCOL is from #4. Here's the numbers from that section--

C 2/5 C 14/8 C 21/9 C 16/20 C 16/13 C 10/1+1 C 20/1+1 C 3/2 C 8/2+5 C 3/2+2 C 1/13 C 9/2

C 16/13 C 20/2 C 14/8 C 21/9 C 7/4+3 C 14/8 C 11/3 C 7/10 C 8/3 C 3/2+2 C 18/5 C 2/1+4 C 10/4 C12/6+5 C 10/1+2 C 16/1+6 C 23/(last # missing)

  • Puzzle #3 is translated to QUARANTINE IS A HOAX. DHARMA INITIATIVE HANSO G(ROUP). ROUP is from the Hatch puzzle.

Here's the numbers for the first section-- C 12/8 C 20/1+2 C 7/2 C 10/1+1 C 10/4 C 11/3 C 14/2 C 17/1 C 8/8 C 10/1+2 C 7/1 C 3/4 C 2/7 C 18/3 C 5/1 C 7/2 C 18/1+5



Pamela--Thebrothersworld 12:21, 27 February 2007 (PST)
  • Awesome job, Pamela! We're going to mention you in our next lp blog entry. --PandoraX 13:02, 27 February 2007 (PST)
  • No problem. I just wish I knew if there was more to it than the cipher.--Pamela--Thebrothersworld 13:17, 27 February 2007 (PST)

Decoding rest of the Blast Door Map

Thanks to the new info, from the coded messages and the better detail of the map from the puzzle, some of the map markings can possibly be made clearer:

  • D.I.H.G may mean "Dharma Inititive, Hanso Group"
  • The lines on the map are possibly the intranet links (from the image of puzzle one)
  • P.R.D may mean Periodic Supply Drop - Puzzle 2 (note the 5 fatalities during the occurance)
  • CV may mean Ceberus Vent
  • The possibly magnetic field strength formulae are clearer, and read 10-6 and 10-4, as apposed to 106 and 104. This means the magnetic field strengths are much weaker than thought before.
  • E.E.P may mean Emergency Escape Protocol - relating to tunnel network (Puzzle 1 - it says EFP Tunnel Network - may mean to say EEP Tunnel Network - EEP is mentioned on puzzle piece 3

If this info is correct, maybe add it to the appropriate pages - still would like to figure out R.V.S

Can anyone put up a capture of the fourth puzzle piece?--Noemis 13:36, 27 February 2007 (PST)


Nice thoughts!! I noticed the CV and PRD suggestions, but the DIHG and EEP appear to be confirmed as well... excellent! I'll update the blast door notations page with those as well... I think we are going to have to wait for Rocket to photograph the last one; I've tried several times with these, and the photography is VERY difficult to get as sharp as he does it. --PandoraX 14:15, 27 February 2007 (PST)

Final code

Good job everyone! I made some edits, trying to replace "*" with the correct codes (easy to reverse-engineer). I suspect that some of the code numbers are still incorrect; the translation is correct (mostly because things were... extrapolated) but the original codes might still be wrong. For example, throughout the text "R" is either represented as C21/9 or C10/1+1, but in the code for puzzle #4 there is one R that is mapped to C31/9... I suspect this was actually misread, and it is in fact a C21/9. I guess it doesn't matter that much at this point, but for completeness (and for others to be able to reproduce the results) maybe somebody (Pamela?) would want to correct any more mistakes. It seems that puzzle #3 in particularly had too many mistakes, barely making sense initially :); Pamela wrote the correct codes for the first sentence (which are now updated), so I guess what's left is to make sure the codes for the second part (Dharma initiative hanso group) are correct.  —Thinker   23:37, 27 February 2007 (PST)

  • Nice! I was thinking of this and got lazy... seemed tough to reverse engineer, but maybe it was just me. Except for the ones where 1 was 2 and vice versa, that is. --PandoraX 04:58, 28 February 2007 (PST)
I'll go through and see if there's any numbers that need fixing after the show tonight. I would definitely guess that the 31/9 is actually 21/9 since there's only 24 chapters in the book.--Pamela--Thebrothersworld 14
  • 53, 28 February 2007 (PST)
  • Thanks! That clears up one mystery ;) --PandoraX 03:52, 2 March 2007 (PST)

Canon?

Does anyone know if the producers have said that information in the puzzles is cannon. This could be just made up by ABC or the puzzle company like the lost diary. -brianopp 12:50, 2 March 2007 (PST)

If that is true than ABC has a couple of royally pissed producers on their hands!!! Princess Dharma (banned)

Yes, per Gregg Nations it should be considered canon.

I'd have to say yes, they can be considered canon. But keep in mind who wrote those coded messages to begin with -- Radzinsky and then Kelvin. What were their states of mind when creating it? And can they really be trusted? --Gregg Nations[3]

   Jabberwock    talk    contribs    email   - 14:19, 2 March 2007 (PST)
  • Thank you for taking the time to ask him, Jabr.... good info to know. I'll post his quote to the main article, especially since it gives an idea that the script people intended the codes themselves to be "a part of the map" (we were debating if just the info itself was canon, or if the actual codes were "on the real map") --PandoraX 18:13, 4 March 2007 (PST)

Brackets!

is there any reason why some of the letters are in brackets?

put together i see them as

G O T O C O L R O U P P R

--KevGGrif 15:13, 21 May 2007 (PDT)


it's something like "protocol group" uh? --Andreapasotti 13:08, 27 December 2008 (PDT)

Puzzles 3/4 not as nice as 1/2?

I just finished number 3 this morning. The edges are not as smooth and nice as 1/2. This makes the pieces stay together a lot better, as the first two picking up large sections was almost impossible. Are anyone else's puzzles like this? I'll start 4 tomorrow maybe.

How long is completing these puzzles taking you? I have been working on them for maybe 45 minutes a day average for two weeks. I have resisted looking on the Internet at pictures of completed puzzles, I do not know if most people are doing this or not. -Sloths 16:30, 24 July 2007 (PDT)

I was the first to post the pics of the puzzles and it took me about 8 hours total to finish each puzzle. I did them by myself with no pictures. Pick a color or theme and run with it. Decide to find all the parts of people and then just work on them. The Others puzzle was the hardest it was all green and yellow.Poppin' Fresh 20:21, 24 July 2007 (PDT)

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