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THEORIES - Should be deleted from this page?

  • I agree wholeheartedly. This talk page needs a clean up. Thefreebird 12:53, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Another Ethan

It could be that another Other, much like Ethan's position, infiltrated the Midsection survivors, and Jacob was the one who created the list. While he could be high up, he could also be low down, grunt work. This is just a possibility, althought I personnaly believe that it is Him or at least another high-up. --Turniphead Danny 21:12, 8 November 2006 (PST)

Jacob is a pseudonym

  • Since Jacob made a list, and it seems that someone has to know the Lostaways in order to make such a list, the mention of Jacob may mean that there is another "mole" among the Lostaways. It could be Paolo...why else take such trouble to introduce characters as if they had been there all along, instead of just bringing them to the island via another balloon/boat/whatever accident?
    • Except that in the first episode of Season 3, Ben addresses Ethan and Goodwin by name, indicating that they did not use fake names with the survivors. If Jacob were working among the survivors, why wouldn't he use his real name too?
      • Also i really dont understand why its hard for people to beleive that P+N have been there all the time, they obviously have, they are just brang forward to main characters now, and why havnt we seen them before? Because they havnt been casted by the production team! Now they have, so now they are there, CC and DL have always said they allowed so many survivors so they can bring them forward when they want. Another also, is that Hurley made a manifest, and so that would have stopped them infiltrating, people would have noticed if they just recently arrived. --lewisg 01:13, 10 November 2006 (PST)
        • If they had just arrived it would make the plot of exposé wrong, they wouldn't be fighting over the diamonds and they wouldn't bother faking not findding them in the lake. It would also make no sense that they were fighting and ended up killing each other. I think that Paulo and Nikki were definately on the plane. Hurley would have spotted it in the manafest too. Jazza 04:49, 16 April 2007 (PDT)

Theory

'Just a thought - but could the reason Jack is not on Jacobs list be because Jack IS Jacob?' —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dhopwp? (talkcontribs) .

Sorry, I find the Jack=Jacob theory to be utterly ridiculous. The show gives us a great deal of insight into Jack's history and emotions. He's obviously frightened by the fact that he's held captive by the Others. Even tho he keeps a level head and doesn't let the fear control him, it's pretty obvious that he's there against his will. I don't see any way the storyline could possibly make sense if Jack turned out to be an Other, much less the LEADER of the Others.C.m. 09:57, 8 February 2007 (PST)
  • Why would Ben let Jack go if he was Jacob? Ben always seemed scared of Jacob but Ben was never scared of Jack, even when his life was in Jack's hands. Also, how could Jack have cured Rachel from the Island? --Jazza 04:51, 16 April 2007 (PDT)

Jacob and the Pearl Station

I think that one simple way to make a list of the losties without being among them is to watch them with the camera of the Dharma's station. So Jacob could be the one who was smoking the cigarette in The Pearl before Locke and Eko come in (and hiding in the bathroom "found" by Paulo on the second visit). ...And also it could be Patchy, that moved to another station when Eko and Locke went out, but still watching everything, even from another station. --andreapasotti, 28 January 2007

But, Jacob hates technology. All the screens and everything else is technology right? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dalith911 (talkcontribs) 2009-04-28T17:16:56.

I want to agree with the "Patchy" theory - if you look at patchy s page, it has the guy who played him on it, who is also the guy who is in the picture of "Jacob Vanderfield" on his own page. when Mittelwork took over, he sent Jacob to the island to be in charge of the work still going on there. --kojak_k Feb 9, 2007

The Twins

If Lost follows literature such as the Bible, and in the Bible Jacob had a twin brother, doesn't that mean Jacob would have been on the boat that destroyed the raft?--Phil 12:03, 5 December 2006 (PST)

Wait, why would that have to be the case? I'm not following. Which story of Jacob and Esau in the bible are you referring to? Hunter 13:00, 5 December 2006 (PST)

Esau was the first born twin, and Isaac's favorite. He was intended to get his father's inheritance. Their mother, Rebecca, favored Jacob and I believe God did, too. Jacob was able to trick Esau out of his birthright, and with the help of his mother, fool Isaac into bestowing it to him instead. When they were born, Jacob came out after Esau clutching his older brother's foot. (To supplant.) Stab in the dark here, "Jacob" could refer to a person or people who were not the first (to whatever), but were granted the "right" (again, to whatever.) Bun bun 09:31, 11 March 2007 (PDT)

Jacob was also the civilized one while Esau lived wild in the wilderness. Esau could be whatever John is calling "the island". Esau was a hunter and John is a wannabe hunter too. The book of Malachi clearly says God hated Esau and loved Jacob. But all the text concerning the two is strange. Half the time, they are portrayed as co-existing but seperate branches of a family. Half the time they are discussed as enternal enemies (Esau). Dharmatel4 22:22, 16 March 2007 (PDT)
I've read some interpretations of 'God hated Esau and loved Jacob', citing that in many books of the bible hate and love are general used as distinctions of which path was chosen in a decision. In the Bible both Jacob and Esau went on to have prosperous lives, Esau was the father of the Edomites while Jacob became the father of the Israelites. Now if you view Jacob and Esau as equal forces where God must choose one to be the father of those which are chronicled in the Christian bible. What happened to the Edomites, who knows maybe god had other plans for them which aren't chronicled. Now back to Lost...it seems like Jacob and the other (I assume might be Esau) are equally 'powered' beings. They seem to be contesting/opposing with eachother...neither good nor bad, just different. Each seems to be manipulating the lives of the people in our story to reach some converging series of events where one will kill the other. So the whole lost series is these two entities manipulating time/fate/lives/reality/etc (probably with some sort of rules, hence the mention of "finding a loophole") so that at some point one of these individuals will 'win' (whatever that may entail). Thus you have the classic dichotomy...not necessarily a good vs bad, but two sides fighting each other each with a different viewpoint. Balancing eachother out. More Yin and Yang, then God vs Devil. To me it seems to describe a lot of what goes on in the series. N1ck0 03:26, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Thomas Mittelwork is Jacob?

You'll recall that Ben told Juliet that Rachel's cancer could be cured. (It's still open for debate whether Rachel's cancer did, in fact, ever return, or if it was just another ruse by Ben). I don't recall the conversation vernatim, but I recall that he mentioned a 'man' or perhaps even Jacob by name, saying that he could cure Rachel's cancer.

I haven't seen this openly discussed yet, but what of this, from the Mittelwork page?

PT: No, he donated it to Alvar Hanso, we have no way of knowing if he gave us the real equation.

TM: Do I work for you Peter or do you work for me? Who cured your cancer? Tell me, I want to hear you say it.

PT: You did, Tom.

TM: Then this conversation is over.


This seems to me to be a direct link between Thomas' claim and Jacob's healing abilities.

Obviously, it could just be Jacob working in the background, and Mittelwork taking credit. Still, it does connect the two dots pretty nicely. --Gare ny 08:10, 27 April 2007 (PDT)

I believe that when Ben told Juliet about Jacob curing Rachel's cancer, he said "Jacob said he would see to it personally. And you trust him, don't you?" --Amberjet11 14:00, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Who is Jacob?

First of all I just wanted to start my therory with saying that I have no idea if this is infact true. It is just something I thought of while watching lost last night.

We first find out about Richard in, "Not in Portland," interviewing Julliet to come work with them on the island, and Julliet syays she can't because her x-husband wouldn't allow her. Julliet gets all frantinc and says, "I don't know. Hit him with a bus," which is unintentional, and the next day, Julliet's x-husband is infact hit by a bus.

Then in, "The Brig," we see Richard talking with Locke. Ricahrd says that Ben wanted to emberrace Locke. Ricahrd then says that Ben set Locke up because Ben knew that Locke wouldn't kill his own father, and that Ben wanted to show people that Locke would fail. Richard says he knew that Locke wouldn't be able to kill his own father. Then Richard says that Ben has been wasting their time on the island by doing experiments on pregnant women on the island, and that the people have to be reminded that ther are more important things on the island. Richard says that this important because when word came to the camp that someone who was in a wheelchair for four years could sudenly walk again, this ment that Locke was extremely special. Richard then tells Locke that if he can't kill his own father, then why doesn't he let someone else do it for him. Richard then gives Locke Sawyer's file, and Richard tells Locke to read it, and Richard leaves. It seemed as if Richard wanted Ben to fail at what he was trying to do.

We know that Jacob/Him wants Ben to fail because in, "The Man from Tallahasse," Ben tells Locke his two options about what he could have done to Jack. Ben then ends on both staments sayin, "that would be the end of me."

Therefore, I belive that Richard Alpert and Jacob/Him are the same person on the island because Jacob/Him wants Ben to fail, and it seems that Richard Alpert wants Ben to fail as well.

I think you're wrong in suggesting Jacob wants Ben to fail. Certainly Ben's role and priorities would be severed, but currently we don't know enough about Jacob to even suggest he has a grudge against Ben. Richard has become to have a more increasewd status within the Others as of late too suggesting he could be J, but on one of the podcasts I think it was revealed that Ben,Jacob and Richard all worked with DHARAMA in the early days?--RichardAM 05:14, 4 May 2007 (PDT)

Jacob could be Alvar Hanso

Jacob might have been Alvar Hanso! During the scene in "The Man Behind the Curtain", in which they are in Jacob's cabin during the shuffle, Ben says 'you had your fun' and is thrown agasint the wall. The camera pans right, and after a few frames, you see a man in the shadows that looks like Alvar Hanso. You can see him right before the camera cuts to a picture of John. Also the 'HELP ME' from Jacob even sounded like him. -robertunes. namaste

Magnus Hanso is also a possibility. Dharmatel4 21:44, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

He is Ben's captive and from the 19th century.

Take a careful look at the way he is dressed. He is wearing an old 19th century cloth and his haircut is exactly resembles that of sea captains. Also, take a look at the way he sits, intact to the chair, with his hands unseen (probably chained to the chair by Ben). He must have said "Help me" to ask aid from Locke.--GeorgeTopouria 03:13, 12 May 2007 (PDT)

  • Wow, great theory!
  • I was actually thinking something along those lines but more to do with the powder/ash that cicles the house at the bottom of the hill and maybe Ben is holding him there using that. Obviously have no proof what so ever to back that up.--Samit 04:56, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

Jacob is the only real Person

Jacob is the sole survivor of Oceanic flight 815 suffering in a coma in a hospital somewhere in the world The people we see on the island are alter egos or personalities one side is good, one side evil if good prevails, Jacob awakens from his coma if evil prevails, you know the rest

This is why they see themselves when they see Jacob because they ARE looking at themselves

There are also a few possible comparisons drawn in the last few episodes

"The Man Behind The Curtain" is an allusion to "The Wizard of Oz" which was about a girl in a "coma" fighting with her "subconcious"

and

"Through The Looking Glass" is an allusion to "Alice in Wonderland" which is also about a girl who has a "subconcious" experience

--Wtoast 10:55, 25 May 2007 (PDT)

Wtoast, I don't think they'd try the "St. Elsewhere" ending. There would be a riot. --AllanJack 03:21, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Wouldn't that be really hard to explain though? And why would they be wearing old time clothing? Reappears 08:11, 26 May 2007 (PDT)


Hurley meets Jacob

[1]

Anybody else think this eye belongs to Miles? Beeth 12:27, 25 February 2008 (PST)

Maybe Miles knew about Jacob and used his weird Voodoo, ghost talking powers to communicate, good find--Collin 16:43, 23 March 2008 (PDT)


" Jacob's connections "

YOU cant just ignore all the coincidences can you? i m talking about Biblically jacob being aaron's great grandfather, now Christian is aaron's grandfather. Now i dont think i would be going too far saying that Christian "Shepherd" could be Jacob's son. Moreover Jacob was regarded as the 1st Shepherd. you cant ignore all these relations... And maybe That's why AARON was the ONLY CHILD BORN on the island. And that's why he is so important to the story. Moreover Charlie tells jack(via Hurley) that he is not supposed to raise AARON. Why is AARON so important that dead ppl are emerging to tell what to do or what not to do regarding that child?

-Jasmeet

Did anyone ever notice that Jacob looks like Dennis Hopper! A LOT!

Jacob is...desmond?

I have no real Evidence behind this theory, but, If you pay bit of attention to Desmond in his episodes... His eyes sometimes get bugged out like in the image of "jacobs" left eye. Also another thought is that he could be frank.. I mean there are some similarities between their hair and facial hair... Though I could be completely off..

This is not a page for theories, especially a theory with almost no evidence to support it. Please do not graffiti talk pages. --Integrated (User / Talk) 20:42, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


Is Jack

Isn't it time to start discussing this since Jack is about to cause the Incident; of all the causes that people have posited for Jack "becoming" Jacob I'd say setting off a hydrogen bomb on a crazy time-travel island could possibly be the most believable; turning him into some crazy/eternal ghost.Asymetric 18:44, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Jacob/Theories is more appropriate for this discussion, as indicated by the header at the top of this page. -- Graft   talk   contributions  18:57, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
(a) keep it to the theory page (or theory discussion), (b) Jacob was present in 1954, before Jack was born. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Integrated (talkcontribs) 2009-05-09T15:40:34.

Jacob contradicts himself

Near the end of season 4, Claire leaves Aaron behind and disappears only to reappear in Jacob's cabin with Christian Sheppard. Claire later appears to Kate off the island and warns her "Don't you dare bring him back". Claire is obviously "with" Jacob.

Richard obviously follows Jacob. In the Jungle during the Season 5 premiere the future Richard tells Locke he needs to bring the Oceanic 6 back in order to save the island. In order to that he'll need to die. Locke did die and, whatever his motivations, Ben takes on the task of returning the Oceanic 6 to the island.

But how can Claire (Jacob) say keep Aaron off the island and then Richard/Locke/Ben (Jacob) say bring them all back? ManOfFaith 16:36, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Actually, Jacob does not contradict himself if you think about. Considering that the Locke on Season 5 on the island was Jacob's enemy the whole time, he was the one who actually told Richard to say that the Locke. Basically, finding that loophole and bringing all the people back to cause more problems.

Magnus Hanso and Son

The Magnus Hanso theory seems to be falling into place. We might think that someone who arrived on the Black Rock would avoid technology.

Yet... wouldn't Magnus Hanso be better known as Magnus and not Jacob? XSG 13:02, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Did Magnus have a middle name? --ConspiracyofDetails 12:08, 11 May 2007 (PDT)
I suggested Magnus, but I have to say I'm much more intrigued by the "son of Magnus/father of Alvar" idea. He is a complete cypher on the show. Do we know anything at all about the middle Hanso other than his necessary existence? Do we know he went to the Island? It would seem natural that Daddy Hanso would go looking for his daddy's final resting place, especially considering the "daddy issues" theme that runs thick and deep through this series. While Alvar isn't a Danish name, and Magnus is Latin, Jacob is spelled exactly that way in Denmark, and this is something that Jeffrey Jacob Abrams would probably be aware of.Boloboffin 01:49, 12 May 2007 (PDT)

I never thought "Magnus" was his real name. I've always considered it like a title. Who drew the Blast door map knew something about the Hanso family (AH stands for Alvar Hanso, DIHG stands for Dharma Initiative Hanso Group), maybe he/they knew Alvar Hanso, so they called his dad/uncle/granfather/... with the title "Magnus" (maybe they didn't know his first name - ...the producers couldn't talk about a "Jacob Hanso" on the Blast door map). Talking about titles and old big ships, "Magnus" can be considered as a commander name, too. -- Andreapasotti 0:29, 13 May 2007 (Italy)

How can Jacob be Magnus or his son? The four toed statue, and possibly native four-toes of the island, predates the Black Rock. Also, if Jacob was any Hanso, why would Jacob be hostile to the Dharma Initiative? Obviously Richard Alpert has knowledge of Jacob. Alpert was one of the Hostiles unable to pass the Sonic Fence to gain entrance to the Barracks. Unless the whole I hate my father thing is an issue with Magnus Hanso and Alvar Hanso.--Kansasgal71 19:09, 18 September 2008 (PDT)

Jacob Hanso

In Denmark Jacob can also be spelled with a k, but there is more people with c than with k - to be more exact according to Danmarks Statistik, from 2006, (Denmarks Statistics) there is 18770 named with a c (http://dst.dk/Statistik/Navne/Document.aspx?path=%2fhomedk%2fstatistik%2fnavne%2fhvormange&layout={AB08C697-2973-4A81-98AC-E038190BA8DB}) and there is 14895 with a k (http://dst.dk/Statistik/Navne/Document.aspx?path=%2fhomedk%2fstatistik%2fnavne%2fhvormange&layout={AB08C697-2973-4A81-98AC-E038190BA8DB})

All I wanna point out is that there is more uncertainty with his name, pointing out that Jacob can also be spelled with a k. I don't know if this should be added, but if anyone feels like it, please do.

--Isakk 11:53, 24 June 2007 (PDT) (from Denmark)

How about ALF's?

Since every good guy/bad guy, white hat/black hat story is a coflict of good & evil or God/Satan with the characters not actually being Supernatural then doesn't it seem logical that Jacob/Mr. X must be alien life forms stuck on earth? Their ship is the temple & they're just competing personalities! It has always been a question as to who the god guys are from the time we first met Ben and Jacob & his nemesis are neither completely good or bad as they manipulate all the characters. --Gregsigns 18:50, 15 May 2009 (UTC)Gregsigns

Jacob is just an experienced time traveller.

  • Jacob is just an ordinary guy from the (near) future. He is in a constant fight with his unnamed rival. They both have a different vision on how the world (or something personal) should be. All the strange things Jacob does, aren't really supernatural, but just the effects of the physics involved with time travelling. Both Jacob and his rival aren't supposed to die until they pass the point in time from where they started travelling. That is why some people don't seem to age.--Dennisernst 20:00, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Jacob and his rival are in a 'time battle'. They constantly orchestrate timelines, that eventually are supposed to lead to one's death.--Dennisernst 20:00, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
  • By constantly travelling in time, they both have a lot of knowledge as to what happens at certain times, and how certain events lead to a chain of events. That is why the others often seem to pop up at the right place, at the right time.--Dennisernst 20:00, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
  • The 'dead' people we see returning to haunt the losties, as well as the "duplicate" John Locke we see in the final episode, are simply persons brought there from another time (before their death), or even another timeline. They seem to suddenly pop up and disappear again. Where would they be before or after their spooky appearance? I'm sure that before they appear they have undergone a different past than the ones we saw in numerous flashbacks. Jacob (or his rival) travels back in time to talk to them, and orchestrate their timeline so that he has their full coöperation. He then makes them appear in front of the losties. Jacob does this to manipulate them. It also explains why Christian Sheppard walks around the island, as well as why Claire was in Jacob's cabin. Their pasts are different from the ones we know of. Jacob is responsible for this.--Dennisernst 20:00, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
  • The 'duplicate' John Locke, is therefore a John Locke from the past, that has experienced different things than the Jeremy Bentham we know.
  • Both Lockes are in fact the same entitie, but are 'sent' by two different people (Jacob and his rival)and by different means. This is perfectly illustrated by the Richard Alpert that tells Benjamin Linus he has visited Locke off the island three times, and never saw anything special about him (The Incident pt 2).Remember the flashback in which Richard Alpert visits a young John Locke, who is drawing the smoke monster? Richard tells Locke he is special, and can go to a special school. That event took place in a different timeline; The one of the currently deceased Jeremy Bentham.--Dennisernst 20:00, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Jacob had to physically touch the losties when he visited them off the island, because that way he might 'anchor' them in a certain timeline.--Dennisernst 20:00, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
  • The Egyptian stuff we see on the island, might have been brought there by Jacob. Maybe he has allready been in ancient egypt, to try and change some events that took place there. --Dennisernst 20:00, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Jacob can fluently speak different languages, because he has unlimited time.--Dennisernst 20:00, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Jacob may be older than the Universe ala Marvin the Paranoid Android whose constant trips back and forward through time meant that he is "thirty-seven times older than the Universe itself"
  • So now we know Jacob actually was stabbed and kicked into the fire. This is contradictory as to what i wrote above. Maybe he ends up alive, heavily burned. maybe he does die, but his entity/presence is required to stay in the timeline. Note that the smoke monster and the ashes around his cabin both have a connection to fire.--Dennisernst 20:00, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Jacob hates technology because he knows it leads to mankinds end in the future. (hydrogen bombs, time travel by other people than himself, etc.)
  • summarized, Jacob and his rival are fighting for a change in the future, and they use time travelling as a weapon to attack eachother. Jacob is completely human, and doesn't have any supernatural powers. He knows mankind will destroy itself eventually, but tries to push some sort of catastrophic day forward, and sees any change he can apply to mankind's nature/actions as a progress in evolving mankind. Both Jacob and his rival are responsible for most things that happen in the show.--Dennisernst 20:00, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
  • I went to a similar conclusion. Not exactly but related.
    • Jacob and also MIB and partially Desmond (he is still a rookie) have this powers.
    • Timefree mind.
      • He can feel all the instants of the timeline at once. So he can “feel” or “know” the result in the future of any event he do today. This way, with a heavy use of the Butterfly effect he can rearrange the future to fit his needs. The idea of the butterfly effect (chaos theory) is that “The flap of a butterfly’s wings in Brazil can set off a tornado in Texas”
      • This help to explain:
        • “The island wants it”
          • No. It Is Jacob using the spaceshifting and timefree mind to arrange events so the outcome is his desired outcome. Wreck the weapon of Keamy before shooting Michael, for example. Or avoiding Michael to activate the bomb until it is the right moment.
        • “Universe has a way of course correcting”
          • No. Again it is Jacob rearranging events so the future fit it needs. Desmond trying to save Charly and failing was a Desmond against Jacob or MIB trying to rearrange the future.
        • “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress”
          • MIB try to rearrange events so he can kill Jacob but having his spaceshifting limited to the island Jacob has and advantage bringing resources from outside the island that MIB can’t control or avoid. The rearrange of timeline once and again is what they call “progress”.
        • “The touching effect”
          • Jacob touches every candidate. This is the equivalent of the flap of the butterfly so he can rearrange their future. Because he can “feel” the future he can “retry” touching the candidates in different ways/moments until he “feel” in the future that everything is rearranged to fit his desires. This also could explain, if Christian Sheppard is a Jacob impersonation, why sometime can interact with physical object and other not. He didn’t help Locke to move the wheel because not doing that will lead to the future he desire.
    • Spaceshifting
      • Jacob can spaceshifting anyplace on world. This is how he moves out of the island.
      • MIB can only space shifting in the Island. When he says that he wants to go out of the island he means that he wants to be able of spaceshifting out of the Island.
    • Long life span.
      • Similar to Richards. He can only spaceshift and “feel” time in his life span. But he is quite an old man.

--Zgzpedro 17:18, March 9, 2010 (UTC) Reverendo

The Bright Light

  • After Jacob's Enemy was introduced, i thought that The Monster is a servant of Jacob's Enemy (like a dark angel) or his original form. If that's true, Jacob should have similar features. In my theory the Bright Light that Locke, Kate and Juliet encountered before was Jacob's servant(like an archangel) or Jacob's original form - not the Smoke Monster. It was seen, because it came to help. Like the Monster, the Bright Light/Jacob can appear in different forms. Some of the visions we've seen (Christian,Yemi,Locke,etc) were the Monster's, and some of them (like Emily and Libby) were the Bright Light's. And the upcoming war is the war of the dark and the light.Paintbox 14:55, 16 May 2009 (UTC)


    • I had the same idea, that the smoke monster is Jacob's enemy, and the bright light is Jacob.

Jacobs Not Dead

The man we seen in the cabin the first time could still be jacob, he is burnt in the fire in Th Incident and around the cabin there is black ash placed around it, it could be Jacobs ashes, when he says to locke "help me" he might be trying to warn locke about his nemisis and that ben is going to kill him--Woodsy123 12:05, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Fertility

Jacob living under the statue of the Egyptian god of fertility immediately reminded me that the Others are having problems with fertility in the future. I think that Jacob's death causes those problems, and the birth of Aaron and the Jin/Sun conception are signs that Jacob has returned. Also, I think the reason that Ben gets cancer is that Jacob knows that Ben will kill him, so allows Ben to get sick.

Response to the Jacob is Jacob Needleman

I am somewhat new here, so if I am doing this wrong I would like to appologize in advance. In the Jacob Needleman theory, it states that utilitarianism is the opposite to the belief that all people are bassically good. This is not the case. Utilitarianism is (in its most basic form) the belief that a good action is one that brings the greatest good for the greatest number of people. It has nothing to do with whether people are inherently good or bad. The theory than goes on to say that self-sacrifice would be the opposite action of that of a utilitarian, but if self-sacrifice would save more lives it would be a choice a unilitarian would make. The theory seems to have misunderstandings about what utilitarianism is, and I was wondering if that could be changed. Again, if I made any mistakes I would like to appologize.--Reflections 02:49, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


Moved from Theory page

The below comments were moved from the theory page due to a lack of evidence that leads to a conclusion. If your theory is below, please add evidence as advised by LP:TP, and then move back to the appropriate place on the theory page. All moved comments are unsigned, so please make sure to sign any subsequent comments added.


 NEVERGIVEUP  Contribs  Talk  20:29, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Powers/Abilities

  • Jacob has the same shape shifting ability that his counterpart has and has manifested himself as Christian Shepard as well as the dead people that Hugo sees. (This is speculation, as there is no evidence that Nemesis is a "shapeshifter.")
  • Jacob is a manifestation of the Island because on the way to the hatch at the beginning of Season 2, Locke said that each and every one of them was brought to the Island...that Jack was chosen by the Island. And as we see in the Season 5 finale, we see Jacob bring much of the main cast to the Island.

Personality

When moving the below theories back to the theory section, please make sure the theory is clear, with evidence that leads to a conclusion.

  • Most of this is discussion, and will be removed from this page within a few weeks, if it is not converted into a theory.
  • In "the incident" Jacob seems to be a caring and loving person who wants only to help people. He keeps Kate from getting in trouble for shoplifting, he consoles Sawyer after the death of his parents, and talks Hurley into getting on the Ajira flight. Ben and Mikhail refer to him as a great man. Ben also says he is not forgiving, although this doesn't seem to be the case, as he seems to be kind and compassionate. (This is speculation, as his motivation to help them is unknown. It is unknown if he was even helping them, or just manipulating them.)
    • It seems likely that Ben & Mikhail were talking to "The Enemy" not Jacob.
    • However, when prior to Jacob's murder, Ben asked "What about me?", to which Jacob responded "What about you?". This implied that Jacob did not think Ben was special, and had no problem telling him so.
      • After watching Jacob's facial expressions when he says "What about you?" I noticed that he seems more concerned, or sorrowful, rather than flippant. As if saying, "Why weren't you all I needed you to be?"
        • The facial expression seemed to suggest sympathy at Ben's ongoing desire to be important and special.
      • This implies that he is not a forgiving man.
    • This doesn't make him a bad person, it just means he's honest.
      • Jacob answers Ben's question with a question of his own, which continues from Jacob's statement that Ben has a choice. When Jacob asks Ben 'What about you?' he is asking Ben what his choice will be. Jacob's emotional expression is one of compassionate concern about the consequences of this choice, especially the (practical, emotional, kharmic?) consequences for Ben. Ben, what (consequences) do you choose for yourself and the rest of us?
      • 'What about you' doesn't make Jacob 'bad person' but more shows him to be a utilitarian - he cares about the 'greater good' and believes all should work to this end. He believes that personal sorrow is trivial.
    • This is because he cares about the 'greater good' and yes, humans are just pawns in the progress towards this greater good.
      • What "greater good" gives the right to ruin several people's lives? Is it sparing a few in order to save millions? And saving millions from what? Playing a game using people is not for people's benefit and Jacob does not care about people's free will at all while using them as pawns.
        • This seems more an analysis of the merits of utilitarianism - there is a 'greater good' and many have agreed with this philosophy. The points raised above in relation to the detriment to people sacrificed in the process does not show that this is not 'good' as such, but that the idea of what is 'good' is debatable and subjective. So what you're really saying is what right does Jacob have to determine who can be used/sacrificed. What right does he have to dictate people's destiny.
        • Furthermore, did he actually ruin people's lives? Certainly none of the losties (see below).
  • I was going to say plus, sometimes bringing them to the island is not 'good' for them. Although I can't think of one Lostie for whom it was bad! Jack finds himself, Kate and Sawyer escape prison, Sun and Jin's marriage is rekindled, Locke gets to walk, Claire gets to know her child, as does Michael. Even for the people who died, the Island brought them good. Charlie died saving his friends, not of a heroin OD. Eko got to say sorry to his brother. Libby - questionable, but we don't know who she was working for. It is only Desmond's life which was not 'good' through coming to the island because he was without Penny, but he's not a Lostie, and we don't know if Jacob brought him.

Jacob did not seem to be concerned about his impending murder. He acknowledged that his enemy had found the loophole that would allow him to kill him. He not point out to Ben that Locke was not who he thought he was and that Ben was being manipulated. Although he pointed out to Ben that he had free will, he threw his "what about me" cry back at him in a way that inflamed him to stab him. --AllanJack 18:14, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

  • In "The Incident, Part 1", Jacob's lines are used not only to reveal his own personality, but for foreshadowing later events and explication of the philosophy behind the shows ethos and production style. (Please explain)
  • In his conversation with his enemy at the beginning of Part 1, Jacob utters the line: "It only ends once, everything else is just progress.". This is a veiled reference to the fact that the central plot arc of the show has been in place from the very beginning. A common criticism of Lost is the suspension of its mysteries over numerous seasons, and the organic, yet inherently slow pace at which those mysteries are revealed - implying that this is done in order to confound the viewer by manufacturing artificial tension. This is the writers' indicating to fans of the show that this has been done purposefully. A counter-implication that in the final season there will be an 'apocalypse' in the true sense of the word - a final, grand revelation. (Blogging is not for theory page.)
    • Jacob then says: "You like it. I did it myself. It takes a long time when you're making the thread, but I suppose that's the point, isn't it?" This is him demonstrating the virtues of self-reliance and patience to Ben as his 'follower'. These are qualities he believes Ben should have as Leader, and also understand as a 'good person'. When Ben cannot show these, Jacob's disappointment in him weighs heavily on his face, as Ben's failure to recognize what is important is also (at least in part) Jacob's failure to prove his enemy wrong.
      • This line seems to be aimed primarily at Ben, but could also be interpreted as a sideways jab at his enemy for having taken so long to find his 'loophole'. It references the tapestry both as an indication of time elapsed and a metaphor for Jacob as a 'weaver of destiny'. The subtext of the conversation is lost on Ben, who is too angry and afraid to understand, and hasn't had the benefit of flashbacks either.
      • "Making the thread" also seems like a reference to the idea of the fates spinning the individual threads, or fates, of human beings. Metaphors of spinning and weaving often are used in ancient mythologies as metaphors for direcitng lives (spinning) and human history (weaving). This seems to suggest that Jacob is a force of fate or destiny who is controllling the outcome of things.

Actions

When moving the below theories back to the theory section, please make sure the theory is clear, with evidence that leads to a conclusion.

  • In the interactions with the Losties, it was evident that he physically touched all the people he visited in The Incident, Parts 1 & 2. His touch adds the touched to the loop referred to by Jacob's nemesis, or accepts them as a candidate as Ilana referred to. Notice that he did not physically touch Ilana; it is also unclear whether he was able to "touch" Sayid in time before Nadia was struck by the car. (Speculation assuming that the "loophole" and the "candidate" meanings have been revealed.)
  • Jacob we "saw" in The Man Behind the Curtain is not Jacob, but the enemy. (Must provide evidence to make a theory, not just statement.)

Metaphysical vs. material

When moving the below theories back to the theory section, please make sure the theory is clear, with evidence that leads to a conclusion.

  • Jacob is a "real person" but has been subjected to a failed experiment at the orchid. The experiment unlatched him not just from time, but also of space. What occurred was that Jacob was moved from our dimension (the third) into the fourth (or higher). Being in the fourth (or higher) dimension gives him abilities that could be seen as "superpowers", he could for example be aware of anything that happens (no matter where it occurs) and anything that will happen/happened. The problem is however communication. Being stuck in the fourth or higher dimension keeps him from communicating properly with those in the third. Only some "special" people can see and hear him, but then only in small glimpses.
    • The idea that Jacob gains his powers from an orchid experiment is at least wrong in the sense that he obtained his powers by these means. This is because Richard is the same age from the 50's to the present at least. So Jacob had to give him this gift before the orchid station was even fathomed or created yet. Also, Jacob was alive in the 19th century. If he was a real person he would have aged and died before the orchid was cratesd in the 70s.
  • Jacob the man is a living metaphor for the island, much in the same way that Egyptian pharaohs were thought to embody Ra, the sun god: to follow the command of the pharaoh is to follow the command of Ra.
  • Jacob is a corporeal being; he can interact with others and inhabits a body as such and this body can die. However, there is a non-corporeal part to him, similar to the relationship between Jacob's enemy and the Smoke Monster.

The Loophole

When moving the below theories back to the theory section, please make sure the theory is clear, with evidence that leads to a conclusion.

  • Nemesis cannot kill Jacob because of something built into the fabric of his own being. In the earlier stages of LOST, it was generally agreed that the smoke monster was some sort of security system. If it is, that security system could well have been created by Jacob. The tapestry on the wall of the temple appears to show Anubis (representation of Jacob?) summoning/forming the smoke monster. And if the smoke monster is Jacob's nemesis (plenty of evidence for this elsewhere) it could be prevented from killing its maker by inbuilt "programming." After all, nobody wants to be offed by something that was supposed to protect him. (Need to remove phrases such as "generally agreed" and "could well have been" as they are not part of theory. Also the pic of Anubis wasn't on the tapestry.)
  • The Loophole is the way that the Nemesis will able to kill Jacob. The Loophole is that the person to kill Jacob must never have seen Jacob or has not ever touched Jacob in the past.

Identity

To be clear, cultural references are not theories and therefore, not for the theory page. A theory is that Jacob IS a certain character/person, not "like", "symbolizes", or "represents". I have moved these comments here to give those who wrote them a place to discuss it, but they don't belong on the theory page.

Hermes

The name Jacob is a wink to one of the show's creators, JJ Abrams, whose middle name is Jacob. This is a red herring. The caracter of Jacob is supposed to represent Hermes, who could enter and leave the Underworld (the Island?) without hindrance. Hermes helps people with injuries, which ties into why people can heal quickly on the island. Hermes embodied the spirit of crossing-over: He was seen to be manifest in any kind of interchange, transfer, transgressions, transcendence, transition, transit or traversal, all of which involve some form of crossing in some sense. This explains his connection with transitions in one’s fortune. In the final episode of season 5 we see Jacob/Hermes show up at the transition point of people’s lives (Kate/stealing, Locke/becoming a cripple, Sayid/losing his wife, Jack/surgery, etc.). Jacob gives Jack an Apollo candy bar (the one that had jammed in the vending machine). Medicine and healing were associated with the Greek god, Apollo.

Osiris

  • Jacob is Osiris. Osiris was killed by his brother Set/Jacob's enemy who tricked him/Flocke because Set wanted control over his throne. Then Isis/Ilana brought him back to life long enough to be impregnated and later give birth to Horus. Furthermore, Osiris is also an Egyptian God/Judge of the Dead. (No evidence from the show to support, other than characters happening to go through Osiris' story. You can't argue that Locke, and Ilana are also egyptian gods.)

Aaron

Any evidence listed here is circumstantial, speculative, and full of assumptions. There is no real evidence from any cannoned source provided here to support this theory.

Jacob seems to know everything that is happening on the island probably because someone from the future told him what would happen or because he's from the future. We may assume that he is actually Aaron (and that the latter traveled back in time once a grown up) to attempt to save the Losties who apparently died in 1977, as suggested Richard Alpert. Evidence:

  • Jacob has blue eyes and blond hair just like Aaron.
  • The procuders said that Jacob was someone who hadn't spoken yet up to the end season 3 and that they had not cast him yet and that they didn't know how they will depict him. As a coincidence, Aaron has only be depicted as a baby up to the end of season 3.

Other theories:

  • He may have inherited his healing power (he apparently brought back Locke from the dead in the incident) from the magnetic power which he has been exposed to during the pregancy of Claire who crashed on the island because of this very same energy. Another evidence is that Miles, who was apparently born on the island, seems to have inherited his ability to communicate with dead people from the smoke monster who can notably read dead people's memories.
  • He may have chosen the name "Jacob" which refers to the great-great-father of Aaron in the bible, in the sense that he will be mainly watching over all the members of his family present on the island, like a "dad".
    • Furthermore, this nickname might also be a way for him to preserve his real identity and then to protect himself from any attempt from his rival to kill him when he was living on the Island as a baby. Hence, that's probably Jacob who ordered the others to abduct every children ending up on the island without disclosing them the real reason which is that he is himself born on the Island.
      • That would make sense when you think that Ethan was so desperate to abduct Aaron that he was willing to sacrifice Charlie's life in season 1. Ethan should have somehow been ordered to abduct all the babies hanging on the island at any cost.
  • When Ilana said that "someone else" has been using Jacob's cabin implies that Jacob's enemy has been using it. This enemy is able to use/clone dead people's body for it's use (ie, Christian and Locke). The fact that we've seen Claire in this cabin at one point with Christian seems to point that Aaron is Jacob from the future. Jacob's enemy used Christian to get to Claire then to Aaron?
    • If that were the case, why did she leave Aaron in the bush and leave with Christain?
      • The real Claire probably died during the explosion perpetrated by Keamy on the baracks and Jacob's ennemy may have usurpated her identity just like he did with John Locke's body. For some reason, he cannot kill Jacob with his own hands (since he ordered Ben to Kill Jacob). That is why he decided to let him to other, hoping that they will get him off the Island forever
    • Jacob's rival might also have been using Claire's body when she appeared in the real world in front of Kate to tell her "don't you dare bring him back" (alluding to Aaron). At this point, Jacob's rival might have finally understood that Jacob is Aaron, and then, he doesn't want him to ever come back so that he could not become the leader of the Island.

Jack Shephard

  • Jack is Jacob and Locke is Jacob's nemesis. When Jacob and Nemesis spoke at the beginning of "The Incident, Part 1", Nemesis said he will find a loophole and kill Jacob. That loophole is being John Locke and living through his life as if he is a whole different person. As Locke, he isn't consciously aware of his past self or of Jacob but in his unconsciousness he knows that his plan is just to kill Jacob. Jacob also finds this loophole and does the same thing, but he becomes Jack Shephard. Although Nemesis is oblivious to Jacob being Jack, Jacob is aware that Nemesis is Locke. This is why Jack had hated Locke and wanted to kill him but ultimately failed. Jack is later converted to a man of faith by Locke, which is why Jacob was so willing to accept his death. (Please use cannonized evidence to prove this theory, and give explanation as to how "Although Nemesis is oblivious to Jacob being Jack, Jacob is aware that Nemesis is Locke.")
  • But then how would Jack be able to meet Jacob at the hospital during his famous 5,4,3,2,1 scene. It wouldn't make sense for Jacob to be two people at once. Even Esau can't be Locke and the Smoke Monster at once. And Esau had to wait until Locke finally died and got back to the island to become Anti-Locke. Locke is not a man of science either, which, according to your theory would imply that these are two men of faith facing off here, which is unlikely. Can I say this theory is debunked? No. But can I say it is unlikely? Yes. (Discussion, but good points for discussion here.)
    • Jack was supposed to be killed in the original pilot. Lindelof and Abrams have said many times that they knew the ending all along, and since it is most likely safe to assume the ending will be somehow related to Jacob and his nemesis, Jack and Jacob having some sort of significant connection to this extent is very doubtful. (If you are trying to argue that Jack's character isn't important to the show because it was originaly planned to be killed off, your going to have a hard time finding evidence. The "ideas" and "plot" were always known, but it was not known exactly how they got there. You could easily argue that after Matthew Fox/Jack did such a great job, they decided to merge his character with another more important character. Point is... we don't know.)

One Entity of the Smoke Monster

  • Why do both Jacob and Jacob's Enemy have the ability to take the form of dead bodies? (Jacob into Christian Shephard with his conspicuous white shoes; Jacob's Enemy into Locke). It is basically settled that the smoke monster takes the forms of dead bodies - so they must be part of the smoke monster. Is it possible that they represent duality and therefore only two entities of the smoke monster? Probably. Especially in light of remarks about re them being 'primal manifestations' of the island. However, given the symbology of Cerberus with the three heads being a guard dog and Rousseau's comments about smokey being somekind of island 'security system' it seems more likely there would be three entities than just two. ("it is basically settled" is neither true or appropriate for theory page.)
  • Jacob is "good", Nemesis is "evil", perhaps the third entinty is the Dragonlance-like "neutral". Perhaps the island itself is the third, neutral entinty that keeps good and evil in balance. The island is what created the rules that prevented Nemesis from killing Jacob (and probably vice versa). (this is discussion)
      • Agreed that the third entity must be 'neutral'. But isn't Richard neutral? Richard suspects that Locke is Jacob's Enemy. That is why he lets him in to see Jacob when he wouldn't usually let Ben et al. He knows they have a feud and is going to let them sort it out; doesn't want to be involved. He is a mere 'advisor' who has been here for a long time (hence the ancient name 'Ricardus'). He is allowed to see Jacob when others aren't. But he is neutral. (Evidence to support Richard's suspicion?)
  • Jacob’s enemy is Cerberus. The Island has several Cerberus Vents (CV) that are identified on the blast door drawing that Radzinsky worked on while in the Swan station. In Ancient Greek mythology, the god Hermes and the monster Cerberus (smoke monster?) are thought to derive their origins from the golden jackal. The Egyptian god of embalming, Anubis, was portrayed as a jackal-headed man, or as a jackal wearing ribbons and holding a flagellum, a symbol of protection. Back to Hermes - I think Jacob is a version of Hermes. Hermes helps people with injuries, which might tie into why people can heal quickly on the island. Hermes embodied the spirit of crossing-over: He was seen to be manifest in any kind of interchange, transfer, transgressions, transcendence, transition, transit or traversal, all of which involve some form of crossing in some sense. This explains his connection with transitions in one’s fortune. In the final episode of season 5 we see Jacob/Hermes show up at the transition point of people’s lives (Kate/stealing, Locke/becoming a cripple, Sayid/losing his wife, Jack/surgery, etc.). Jacob gives Jack an Apollo candy bar (the one that had jammed in the vending machine). Medicine and healing were associated with the Greek god, Apollo. In many Greek myths, Hermes was depicted as the only god besides Hades, Persephone, Hecate, and Thanatos who could enter and leave the Underworld without hindrance.[all of this was sourced from material found on Wikipedia] (Blogging, not theory.)
  • I definitely think that Jacob is a lighter smoke monster. Maybe not necessarily a duality but simply Jacob has a similar ability to that of the nemesis. However, lets take that one step further. If Jacob can turn into a smoke monster,can he not also take the forms of those deceased? If this is the case, I think we may finally have the answer to who Vincent actually is and why he "survived" the plane crash. It does not make sense that the black smoke monster would become Vincent and simply hang out observing everyone. Jacob could take the form of Vincent and keep a watchful eye over all of the people he brought to the island. We can then tie this into the fact that the producers have stated Jacob had a non-speaking role in the pilot episode. We see Vincent in the pilot standing in a bush simply watching Jack, Kate, and Charlie. Weezerbholly 23:06, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
    • Amazing, that makes a lot of sense, I always believed that Vincent was special (and also that it was dead, because it's very unlikely he survived in the cargo compartment.) The only problem I see is that the creators also have stated that Vincent is the only character they can warrante that will be alive by the final episode.Maokun 06:22, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Jacob Needleman

The character of Jacob symbolizes the views of the modern philosopher Jacob Needleman, who holds that people are basically good (He is the author of "Why can't we be good?"). We see hints that the character of Jacob symbolizes Needleman's philosophies when he says "Be good" to the young Kate and also when he reads the Flannery O'Connor novel. (O'Connor is also the author of "A Good Man is Hard to Find," and her works speculate about the inherent goodness of people.) The show pits his philosophy against that of Jeremy Bentham, a 19th century philosopher who was a utilitarian, and even hints that Bentham will disguise himself as Locke by having Locke use the alias "Bentham" in one episode. The show seeks to ask the question, "If you put a collection of people on a desert island, will they be basically good, or will only act more and more in their self interest?" "Which force will win out?" We are given a clue about the writer's opinion when Locke's own self-sacrifice appears (by camera angle) to answer the question, "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" If Locke is the one who will save them all, it is because of his self-sacrifice, which would contradict a utilitarian point of view.

Pierre Teilhard de Chardin's Omega Point

  • French philosopher Pierre Teilhard De Chardin's Omega Point philosophy explains evolution as a movement toward ever-higher levels of consciousness, culminating in a God-like level of shared consciousness he called the Omega Point. To reason this, he postulated a single human being, the Omega Point, must already exist to serve as a pole, or force, which draws humanity toward its highest level of consciousness.
  • Jacob exhibits all of the five necessary traits as Teilhard's Omega Point. He is:
    • 1) Already existing.--Jacob is shown to have existed for an indefinitely long period of time during his conversation with the Nemesis in The Incident.
    • 2) Personal. An intellectual being and not an abstract idea.--Jacob is shown to be a real human being when stabbed by Ben.
    • 3) Transcendent. He operates outside the universe proper and is the force that attracts humanity's rise to higher levels of consciousness.--Jacob lives on the Island, outside human society, and has historically brought people of increasing levels of consciousness to the Island (Egyptians, Black Rock, Dharma, the LOSTies.)
    • 4) Autonomous. That is, free from the limitations of space and time.--Jacob appears ageless at different places and times throughout the show.
    • 5) Irreversible, that is, attainable.--As Jacob tells his nemesis: "It only ends once. Everything up to that point is just progress."
  • Jacob is shown to be reading Flannery O'Connor's "Everything That Rises Must Converge," the title of which is taken from Teilhard's The Phenomenon of Man, which explains his Omega Point philosophy.
    • It is also worthwhile to note that Teilhard's research partner was Julian Huxley, whose brother, Aldous Huxley, wrote books that have clearly influenced LOST, including Island and Jacob's Hands, a short story about a man named Jacob who has the ability to heal others by touching them with his hands.
    • The writers hint at both Pierre Teilhard de Chardin and his Omega Point philosophy follower, Frank J. Tipler through the names of the characters Pierre Chang and Frank J. Lapidus.

Flannery O'Connor

O'Connor's characters in her books are "touched" by devine grace. Devine grace meaning enabling power for sufficient progression or God's empowering presence in ones life, enabling one to do or be what one was created to do or be.

  • However, Jacob has been shown to be male, whereas Flannery O'Connor is a woman.
  • I am talking about the characters in her books. Not O'Connor personally.

Jacob's Ladder

  • Most of the theories around the importance of Jacob's name focus on the biblical character Jacob. 'Jacob's Ladder', although also originally derived from the biblical story, is also the name for a high voltage traveling electrical arch, the kind you would see in old sci-fi and horror movies. Given the importance of electro-magnetism in the show, this may be the more direct reference.
  • Jacob actually means Deceiver.
    • it means Usurper, not deceiver. It references the sale of birthright. "he who supplants"
    • I don't know where you got those meanings from. The Hebrew name Jacob means "to follow". In the bible it says he had a twin brother, and he came out second holding his brother's heel. More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_(name)
      • Biblically Jacob means "heal catcher" "one who deceives" or deceiver [2] [3] [4] [5]

The Antichrist

The Antichrist, according to Christianity, is one who fulfills Biblical prophecies concerning an adversary of Christ while resembling him in a deceptive manner. It is made up of two root words, αντί + Χριστός (anti + Christos). "Αντί" can mean not only “against” and “opposite of”, but also “in place of", "Χριστός", translated "Christ", is Greek for the Hebrew "Messiah" meaning "anointed," and refers to Jesus of Nazareth. The term "antichrist" appears 5 times in 1 John and 2 John of the New Testament — once in plural form and four times in the singular.

This one Antichrist is spoken of in more detail by Paul in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2. Paul uses the term man of sin to describe what John identifies as the Antichrist. Paul writes that this Man of Sin (sometimes translated son of perdition) will possess a number of characteristics. These include "sitting in the temple", opposing himself against anything that is worshiped, claiming divine authority, working all kinds of counterfeit miracles and signs, and doing all kinds of evil. Paul notes that "the mystery of lawlessness" (though not the Man of Sin himself) was working in secret already during his day and will continue to function until being destroyed on the Last Day. His identity is to be revealed after that which is restraining him is removed. --Thefonz, 05.00pm, may 15th, thanks

A god

  • I found it interesting that no one has mentioned Nietzsche's famous "God is Dead". In The Madman, it states "God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?" I think that Ben represents humans and literally "kills God".
  • When Jacob is in the cab with Hurley, he tells the driver "I'm just up here on the corner". The song used for the commercials for season 5 were The Fray's "You Found Me". The first line of the song says "I found God on the corner of First and Amistad". Perhaps this a clue pointing to Jacob being God.

Hostage

When moving the below theories back to the theory section, please make sure the theory is clear, with evidence that leads to a conclusion.

Jacob is Ben's hostage.

Evidence
  • Ben is keeping Jacob "prisoner" with the mysterious ash-like substance surrounding Jacob's cabin (Ben checks this every time he enters the house). In some cultures, salt drawn in a circle is said to contain spirits. Jacob's plea of "Help me" can thus be seen as a plea to help Jacob escape from Ben.
  • Jacob is helping the Losties by showing them visions that give them clues, aide and warnings so that they can stop the Others and free him. This is why Ben is so threatened by Locke's ability to hear Jacob.
Limitations
  • Why didn't Jacob summon the Others in a similar fashion to overthrow Ben? Perhaps the Others are afraid of Jacob for some reason, or Ben.
  • Why does Jacob apparently guide Ben and assist the Others with information and guidance if he is their prisoner? Further, if he is not really a living person, what could they possibly use to coerce him?
  • Why then does Ben do what Christian (supposedlyspeaking for Jacob) says and move the island?
    • Have we ever really got confirmation that Christian is speaking for Jacob? Just because he appears in the cabin, does that confirm this?
    • Alternately Jacob could be a willing prisoner, and the ash doesn't keep him in, instead it keeps something else out. Ben is helping Jacob but is taking his time out of fear of becoming useless to the Others.
  • If Jacob was being held prisoner by Ben and contained by the ash, then where was Jacob in "There's No Place Like Home, Part 2" and why was "Christian" there instead?
  • It is known that Jacob was not inhabiting the cabin. So Ben could not be holding him prisoner there. This theory is also doubtful because Ben has never met Jacob. The ash was holding something else in.

The Grey Substance

Most of these were moved to Jacob's cabin/Theories as they fit better there.

  • The powder is Jacob's nemesis' ashes. The fake Locke was unable to stab Jacob because of the Rules, but was able and eager to finish him off by pushing him into the fire. This may show that their roles were reversed at one time and that some sort of poetic justice has been achieved. And from the fire of the burning body comes the Black Smoke...

Role in Show

When moving the below theories back to the theory section, please make sure the theory is clear, with evidence that leads to a conclusion.

  • Jacob is a Messiah-figure. Every encounter with one of the characters is intended to emphasize their sense of choice. Like the Christian concept of Messiah, Jacob does not force people to do things; he asks them to accept his will as part of some greater plan. He willingly sacrifices himself as part of some plan for the betterment of mankind and will be resurrected in some form. There are three years on the island when Oceanic flight 815 crashes, then, thirty years that run concurrently to the events of 1977 and 2007. 2007 - 2004 = 3; 1977 - 2007 = 30; 33. This would assume that Jacob would have been born in 2004 at the plane crash, Aaron is born in 2004, after his mother, Claire (seen in Jacob's cabin, too) was told before the flight, "That danger surrounded her child spent after months of persuading her that Aaron couldn't be raised by another." (Please explain how this would work knowing that Jacob was alive in what seemed like the 1800's at the beginning of "The Incident, Part 1".)

Time Travel

When moving the below theories back to the theory section, please make sure the theory is clear, with evidence that leads to a conclusion.

  • Jacob did not travel back in time. What has happened is what Daniel explained as a record player. Those back in DHARMA time are in 1977, and they are all before the event Jacob appears in their lives. Note that Jacob only visits those whom are stuck in 1977 before The Incident (event). Now, Daniel said that "What happened, happened", but Jacob says that in the opening scene of "The Incident, Part 1" that "it" only happens "once...everything else is just progress". This connects a destiny of "it", but if time is a record player, "it" doesn't have to happen in the future. Therefore, there is a circular continuum until it was altered. However, Jacob was only able to change events after 1977, because what happened hasn't happened! The rule is "what's done is done" or "what has happened, happened". However, if "it" does only happen once...then destiny can't be changed, because "it" is a singular moment. Rather, Jacob changes the small moment, which changes the choice of the person when "it" happens. If Jacob were to travel in order to affect other characters who were not in 1977, he would alter the time, which appears to be against the "rules". The only person Jacob did not attempt to give positive feedback to is Ilana (again, she's another theory for another page). Ilana is a servant of Jacob's since she understands where everything is on the island, and it is when she meets Jacob's nemesis in John Locke's skin, she did notice that Locke wasn't on the plane and did "appear flustered". It was then that she alerted Jacob and thus Jacob put his plan to outwit his nemesis by changing the way each of the 1977 Oceanic Six would approach "it" when "it" does actually happen. As for Locke, the real Locke is dead; ergo, there is no threat of Jacob going back in time to alter Locke's approach to his future choices. Jacob gives positive reinforcement, but the free will of each person he gives it to is still there. (Please reduce into a clear and concise theory. Also, Jacob doesn't say "it only happens once...", he says "it only ends once...". Also, please see the next comment, as it poses a hole in this theory.)
    • Jacob visits Sawyer prior to the Incident at his parents funeral in 1976. In 1977, he tells Jack that his parents died one year ago, and he could have gone back and tried to stop it (since he has been with the Dharma Initiative since 1974), but he doesn't because he believes that what's done is done.

Death

  • We were told "dead is dead". And given "Locke" is really "Jacob's Enemy"...it seems true. Therefore, Jacob is dead (in 2007). Given this is, per his conversation with "Nemesis" on the beach as the BR sails up, something new and not something that "happens every time", the pattern or Great Karmic Circle has been broken this time. However, if the past is changed (Faraday's Plan), it will save Jacob, as there will be no 815 Crash, no Locke, no "False Locke". And the Nemesis will have failed.

Plans

  • If he had knowledge of his own death in 1977 why would he make an effort to get Locke to the Island. If he had not healed Locke after he was pushed out of the building, then Jacob's Nemesis would never have been able to kill him/have him killed. Even if Locke didn't die from the building and he just woke him up or whatever, if he had healed Locke's legs there and then and thus prevented him coming to the Island. Clearly, if Jacob knew what was going to happen as far back as 1977, he would have done a lot of things differently in the intervening period. (Argumentative)
  • Is Jacob looking for his successor as leader of the magical Island? Maybe he wants a human to look after it and his nemesis resents this as he feels he is the natural choice. Also his nemesis feels that a human is corrupt and naturally inclined towards destruction. Jacob is probably tired after being around clearly for hundreds and hundreds of years. He brings 'candidates' to the island to see if they are worthy of the role and none have passed the test. Maybe one of the Losties will be the chosen one. Richard Alpert may have been an original choice, but failed for some reason. He then got assigned to assist Jacob in his search. Widmore could have been a candidate or Eloise. The Dharma Initiative found the Island and was conducting experiments to use the special properties. This angered the Nemesis as it reinforced man's greed and destruction. He then found a way to kill Jacob with a long con to find his loophole. What Nemesis didn't know is that Jacob was one step ahead of him and knew he was going to die and welcomed it. He just made sure he set everything in place for his chosen one to defeat nemesis and become the leader of the Island. Whilst nemesis was planning death, Jacob was preparing for it and meeting new candidates as well as assembling a team to bring nemesis down. (Not a bad theory, but a lot of "maybe" and speculation. Please reword into a clear and concise theory with theory, evidence, and conclusion without a lot of unnecessary detail.)

Plans

When moving the below theories back to the theory section, please make sure the theory is clear, with evidence that leads to a conclusion.

  • Yet, seen in the light of 'The Incident', the common goal of these figures can be guessed at. Mr. Nemesis clearly has the ability to represent the dead. This process seems, to some extent, to involve the Smoke Monster (Eko's encounters with which suggest that it has the power to read the past of individuals it encounters), and the body of the dead person to be on the Island.
    • It may be the case that the Monster is Mr. Nemesis' emissary/lieutenant in the same way that Richard is Jacob's, both acting in defence of their respective masters.
  • Due to the key differences between them, Mr. Nemesis' methods are more indirect than Jacob's. He seems to use the images of the dead to make the living reflect on their past - normally making them feel regret, sorrow, or anger which drives them toward his aims.
  • Eko's death at the hands of the Monster came immediately after his dead brother Yemi commanded him to ask for forgiveness, by doing so accept his guilt and regret. By failing to do so, Eko demonstrated that he would not be controlled by his past, and so (presumably) was only a threat to Mr. Nemesis. Thus, he was swiftly and brutally eliminated.
  • Locke, by contrast, is almost completely driven by past hardships. His faith in the Island comes from his need to believe in a greater destiny for himself after years of being downtrodden, abandoned and mistreated. For all the significant and worthy things it led him to do, Locke's faith was at the heart of Mr. Nemesis' strategy.
  • Thematically, the conflict between Jacob and his Nemesis is not so much about good and evil as it is hope (for the future, a form of faith) and regret (of the past, that which has been proven, a.k.a. 'science'). These terms do not literally equate, but are used as part of an allegory about the importance of the present in the context of both the past and the future. (Please give evidence to support these, as there is evidence presented for "light" vs "dark".)
    • By contrast, Mr. Nemesis represents lack of hope in humanity, regret of the past, resignation to fate and the deferral of responsibility to others (one might say this is embodied by the idea of him 'using' the dead to manipulate the living, where Jacob faces everyone directly and in person).
  • The loophole referred to by Mr. Nemesis revolves around the period where the Island (along with key survivors, most of whom were seen to be touched by Jacob) becomes unstuck in time. This is a period that starts when Ben turns the wheel at the Orchid (tilting it 'off its axis', perhaps a metaphor for Ben's leaving being a mistake), and ends when Locke does the same. These events cause past, present and future to 'collide' - the only circumstances that could allow a being with power over the past (Mr. Nemesis) to conquer a being with power over the future (Jacob).
  • Just before the smoke monster attacks, Nemesis manifests as Yemi before he kills Eko. He says "you speak to me as if I'm your brother". This shows the nemesis has a purpose, and its not compassion. The night Alana brings the coffin with dead Locke, she says that the one inside is someone more dangerous. Implying that she in fact knows who the nemesis is and he is not friendly. So, going back the day Jacob spoke to Ilana, he told her what the days will bring and what to do when the day comes. Assuming there's not another lamppost station, Ilana and her team knew when and how to get to the island, unless Jacob told her exactly how. This proves Jacob has foreseen the events to come and worked out a scheme to prevent the Nemesis killing him permanently, as Ilana is also aware there will be candidates.--Delican 23:13, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Taxi Jacob is Dead.

When Jacob talks to Hurley in The Incident, in the taxi. He says he definitely isn't dead when Hurley asks him, but with all the lies that have been told on here, I can't really take anybody's word on anything. I've seen mentioned a little before (but never an outright "theory" (unless I missed something)) that the conversation with Hurley & Jacob happens in 2007, but it absolutely does not. It happens in 2008 only 24 hours before the 316 flight. But considering that Jacob does die in 2007 when Ben stabs him and Nemesis Locke kicks him into the fire, and if Hurley does see dead people, and we know he at least saw Charlie in "The Beginning of the End", then it's not too far of a stretch to say that this Jacob who Hurley is speaking to, is dead.Themanthing 21:51, December 31, 2009 (UTC)Themanthing

Latest "clean up"

I just noticed that a lot of good speculation was erased from the Theory page, especially in the Jacob's Plan section, leaving only the original theory. I'd repost it here but it would make little sense as it by itself, as it was expanding and in occasions, correcting different points of the theory, so I'll keep it open in another tab and will restore them later unless a good reason is given not to.Maokun 06:37, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

There is a good reason... speculation doesn't belong on the theory page. It says it right in the rules. Everything on the theory page needs evidence. -- Managerpants  Contribs  Talk  14:10, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
If a theory needs to be corrected, then it should be corrected, not lengthened with another line of text. Too often the theory pages become blog-like in the first week after an episode. First person statements also have no place on the theory pages.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 14:20, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Why does Jacob visit every character before coming onto the island except for Sayid and Hurley?

Does anyone notice this? He visited all the other "candidates" before they even boarded the plane--example: Sawyer at his parents' funeral. But Sayid he visited right before Nadia died, so after he got off the island. And Hurley after being off the island because Charlie had already died. Any ideas?--Partywithallie 06:30, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

How did Jacob buy a new shirt while he was dead?

  • Sorry, to point this out, but how the hell did Jacob manage to get that nice new shirt in What They Died For? I mean it has a fricken pocket and everything!

Mitchincredible 11:25, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

--Scribeworks 22:15, December 25, 2010 (UTC)== Jacob the maguffin ==

Jacob is one of a multitude of what Alfred Hitchcock called "maguffins" introduced throughout the entire LOST series. A maguffin is a literary device, a kind of hook to draw viewers' thinking towards a certain direction while something else creeps up from a different angle. Magicians do this all the time: they make you stare at their left hand while the right hand switches the deck of cards on you. Specifically Jacob was introduced into the series at a point where viewers were being pushed towards thinking that the island was perhaps some kind of purgatory for the LOST passengers, all of whom had committed a lot of sins before crashing and so perhaps they were being purged before moving on to heaven, because they were after all all "good" people. The reference Jacob, which obviously very few people caught, was to make people think of "Jacob's Ladder", which in the Bible is the link between earth and heaven. Few caught the clue, but we all started thinking "purgatory" anyway...

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