RenameEdit

Agree on the renaming to whoever proposed it.--Mistertrouble189 02:33, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Agree: It's a much better name.--Baker1000 02:35, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Agree Also Hydra camp or Hydra island camp are good titles, but I'm OK with Flight 316 survivors' camp. --Orhan94 10:23, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Agree. Ao-bōzu 青坊主 * Talk * Contributions

• Rename to Hydra Island camp. We don't call the beach camp article "Flight 815 survivors camp"...-- CTS  Talk   Contribs 00:56, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

RunwayEdit

All references to a runway are non-canon in this article. Some theorists suggest there MIGHT BE a runway. The only image that vaguely resembles the Ajira crash sight comes from a DELETED SCENE ON A DVD... which is NON-CANON. The Official ABC recap says: "It's night as they cross through a jungle area. Ilana says the man wasn't one of the ones who disappeared, and he wasn't on the plane. And at that very moment they pass by a huge airplane with its nose stuck in the jungle. In the torch light, we see the plane is smoke-stained, banged up and has a hole in the bottom. It has landed on its belly with the landing gear up, and the wings have sheered some of the surrounding foliage, but it is otherwise intact."' –DocH– my edits 02:48, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

But Juilet did say they were building a runway to Sawyer in "Through the Looking Glass, Part 1", which she then joked it was for Aliens to land on...I think the runway is canon--Baker1000 02:54, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Umm yeah, Baker is right... The runway is 100% canon. -- CTS  Talk   Contribs 03:02, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

- The canon is that she said what she said. There is ZERO canon to support the statement in THIS ARTICLE to support the OVERT THEORY that "It seems as if flight 316 crashed landed almost directly on the runway built by the..." . That's a fallacious argument, and has no merit. We have never seen a runway before, we have not seen one this week, a runway under construction was verbally referenced before, a runway on Hydra has not been verbally (or visually) reference with the Ajira flight or their beach camp. I would totally yield on this if there had been. Like Frank saying, "Hey, over there to the left, there's a clearing in the jungle, let's try to put down there!" Capeche? –DocH– my edits

A runway on Hydra Island has been referenced. Sawyer and Kate were constructing a runway at the quarry along with the Others in "The Glass Ballerina" and other episodes. So it has been verbally referenced (by Juliet) and visually seen in Season 3. -- CTS  Talk   Contribs 03:25, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

They were told they were doing manual labor for a runway. We saw where they were breaking rocks. The image on the runway page says Overhead shot of the runway taken from the 'deleted scenes' on the Season 3 DVD. That image, by canon policy HERE, is not canon. Plus we don't even see it in this weeks epi. ergo. the statement as if flight 316 crashed landed almost directly on the runway - can't be used on a canon article, because there is nothing that supports that statement. If you want to quibble - how do you even know it was the runway built by Sawyer and Kate? Maybe there are 10 other runways under construction, and this wasn't the one they were working on. –DocH– my edits

You can clealy see from this image that the plane landed on a runway, and there's only one runway we know of that's near the Hydra... -- CTS  Talk   Contribs 03:49, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

--Not clear at all. I've already examined all the HD photo screencaps. This night shot, I adjusted the brightness, saturation, hue, etc... it is only 20 feet wide - not a runway for the smallest Cessna. The vegetation completely covers across the end of it, well short of the day shot from season three. It looks more like a flat, rocky creek bed... the kind you find close to the shoreline (where Ajira is). Statements don't go into canon articles unless they are facts. Facts can be proven. The statement about the runway can't be proven. Therefore it needs to come out until it is proven... satisfying LP Policy. –DocH– my edits 04:07, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

IMO it's pretty clear that that is the RUNWAY, the one Kate and Sawyer were building, the one that Juliet joked was for alien landing, the one that the Others' finished and after that left Hydra Island. And about the width statement, I think it's pretty safe to say it's just a blooper.--Orhan94 09:06, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

-And they found this magical runway how? The first leg of the flight was in daylight. The later part - when the TIME flashes occurred - it was dark outside. So they found a tiny (unlit?) airstrip at night (dark sky, dark sea, quarter mile square land mass) in the middle of the Pacific... and they almost made it, but forgot to put down the landing gear in the process? How? –DocH– my edits 09:20, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Um we don't know if it was dark when Frank landed the plane. We don't know how much time elapsed since Frank landed the Plane. --SteUeRunG! 09:30, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Until we have a clearer picture of the plane and the area around it in the day light, then suggesting that its a runway is speculative. Whilst we know of a runway, and it looks similar to a runway, its not explicitly obvious that it actually is. Until its made clear in the show that its a runway, we should not presume that it is. -- Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  11:36, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks DocH for pointing me to this discussion. Having read all the arguments, I PERSONALLY think they landed on the runway, but as has been pointed out it's not a complete 100% (though in fairness a 99.9 in my mind). I think under these circumstances, writing that the plane crashed on Hydra Island, and that "it is highly likely that the plane landed on the runway..." is perfectly acceptable - as there is a high likelihood that they did considering how small Hydra Island is. This is a healthy compromise considering good pro-runway evidence (and also if I remember rightly, the assertion in an official lost podcast S3 episode where they said how the runway might be used in the future for something). --Nickb123 (Talk) 11:51, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

That is still speculation until its on the show and made explicitly clear. Whilst I agree it is probably the runway, we haven't had anything like a clear confirmation yet, and that picture certainly doesn't make it any more obvious than the plane being next to dirt track or clearing. It could be a large service road for the Hydra. The Hudson River makes a good make shift runway, as we know, but it doesn't mean we should designate it as one! :D -- Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  12:06, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

• How are statements by characters to be judged as canon?
  • Ben said his name was Henry Gale.
  • Young Widmore said he and his patrol were outnumbered.
  • Juliet said they were building a runway for aliens; she also said, "They don't tell me everything."
  • It's important to read conversations, not lines.
  • Oh, yes, a runway capable of handling a 737 would be made of concrete 18 to 36 inches thick. That's a lot to do with a wheelbarrow. --Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 16:22, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
• Runway talk should be confined to the theory tab for now. As far as the main article goes, the best advice is "wait, watch, and see."    Jabberwock    talk    contribs    email   - 16:36, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Looks like the runway to me. I know it's night, but I don't think it could be any plainer in the day. Robert K S (talk) 05:01, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

• Didn't Darlton say in a recent interview/podcast/DSA update that the runway would feature in Season 5? I'll look for the source. --Blueeagleislander 07:49, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

• Juliet's exact words after the aliens sarcasm were "JULIET: I don't know what for, do you think they told me everything?" She did not recind her comment that it was a runway they (not just Sawyer and Kate as a spirit breaking activity) were building. She merely stated she didn't know "what for", or what the runway was to be used for, more formally written. Consensus has determined the article runway is correctly titled, and we know it's on Hydra Island. I agree that it's small, but that's probably why the plane is partially in the trees. This is probably the reason they are on the smaller Island in the first place, because Frank, who has been mentioned several times to be a good pilot, found a clearing (runway) to set down the plane. It obviously didn't beam there because it is damaged. Given what we know about the impact of planes on water, Frank would not have taken his chances with a water landing, and given the choice between beach, where he might miss and hit the water, Islands full of trees, or an obvious strip, albeit small, the runway was the best choice. (I did an extensive search for any podcast that mentioned it being in Season 5, and I couldn't find one.) ---- LOSTonthisdarnisland 01:05, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Correct me if I'm wrong, but before Capt. Sullenberger's "Miracle on the Hudson", there had never been a successful water ditch of a commercial jetliner before (i.e. all passengers surviving). Given that this newsmaking event happened after the episode was shot (and set), I'm sure Frank had it nowhere in his mind to attempt a water landing. It was incredible enough for him to survive one of those in his lifetime... Robert K S (talk) 04:22, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
    • Yes, it is very rare, indeed. That is why I said "Frank would not have taken his chances with a water landing". According to Time, they could only "find three other instances when a flight crew of a commercial jetliner intentionally ditched a plane on water ... [including] a 1963 incident involving an Aeroflot Tupolev Tu124 en route from Estonia to Moscow, yielded a 100% survival rate." {source). So statistics are definitely against landing in or on the water. ---- LOSTonthisdarnisland 07:07, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

• "Co-pilot on 316: Is that a runway?" ("Namaste") That should clear this up nicely. ---- LOSTonthisdarnisland 03:27, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
• Man I thought it was fairly obvious that the runway we saw on Hydra Island in The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham was clearly the runway. But glad the show confirmed this to all those skeptics hehe. I must say it was longer than I thought. The Others must have known this would happen in the future, who knows.--Mistertrouble189 03:30, 19 March 2009 (UTC)