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Talk: Follow the Leader/Theories

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Compass Paradox[]

There was a section called compass paradox included in the theory section which was removed with a statement that one of the lost podcasts revealed an answer. But there is no answer to the compass paradox in that podcast.

  • In a later podcast they do address the issue by saying it is a paradox, left in the show to allow for some mystery. However, the fact that it is not actually locke who creates the compass incident but the jacobs rival means it is not a paradox.

Centricity[]

  • The episode will be Juliet centric. She has not had a centric episode this season.--—The preceding unsigned comment was added by QuiGonJinn (talk • contribs) .
    • Not necessarily, Sawyer didn't have a centric episode in Season 4. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kjodon7 (talk • contribs) .
      • Yet it is very possible. The only episodes left are this one and the two-hour finale. Since the finales tend to be multi-centric, "Follow the Leader" remains the only candidate to feature any real centricity. And the only main cast member who did not have a centric episode in season 5 is Juliet. (Actually, Charlotte did not have a centric too, but she, unlike Juliet, is dead. Well, at least her adult version...) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by QuiGonJinn (talk • contribs) .
        • No, only 2 finales have been multicentric (1 and 4). 2 was Desmond FB and 3 was Jack FF. So it could go either way (though I bet it's multi because I honestly can't think of anyone right now who would need a full, 2 hour FB or FF). --Golden Monkey 14:17, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
      • It's important to think about who actually has a story to tell. Juliet never left the island, the only real story to tell would be her and Sawyer's three years on the island. I very much doubt they'll feel the need to go into that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chocky (talk • contribs) .
  • I also beleive this will be a juliet centric to some degree for reasons above, and i've heard rumors from a somewhat reliable source that her flashback scenes would consist of her parents divorcing.
    • Hmm.. That didn't happen ;) Luminifer 04:17, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

"I Saw Them Die"[]

  • I posted the following on the theory page, but it was removed by User:Roobydo because it was 'nonsensical'. Care to explain?

"Richard did not actually see them die, but nor is he lying. He saw the Losties go into the Swan- shortly afterwards the Incident occurs and all those in the Swan die. However, as part of the Incident the Losties are zapped back to 2008."

Basically what I'm saying is that Richard *thinks* he saw the Losties die, but they didn't. What's so nonsensical about that?--Chocky 17:56, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

  • Actually, if you look at the edit [1], I removed "Kate is living proof (for Richard) that they are alive since he sees her in 1977 and again in 2004." Your theory is still there, but now it's in the Richard Alpert section. I'm not even the one that moved it there. Also, if you can "basically" sum up your theory in a short, concise sentence, don't you think you should just use that sentence on the theory page?-- Roobydo  talk  contribs  19:05, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Infertility and the hydrogen bomb[]

  • The infertility of the women on-Island in the 21st century are not due to radiation poisoning. The womens' own immune systems are attacking the fetuses at a certain point in the pregnancy, causing the woman and baby to die. Radiation cannot cause that.--Lahi 18:38, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Daniel Faraday[]

  • since Faraday seems to be in his 40's of age -or at least older than Charlot when they came to the island on the freighter- then he was born before 1977 which means by the time Eloise kills him the young Daniel should have been born already and Eloise is aware of his existence of course since she gave birth to him. (UTC)
  • Faraday has not been born yet in 1977. In this episode, Elly and Charles are clearly having a conversation in the background about her being pregnant, presumably with Daniel. Though the actor playing Daniel may be in his 40's, they are presenting him as younger than that on the show. Though that means he must now be about 19 by the time he's teaching at Oxford when he meets Desmond in 1996, the writers addressed that last week by explaining Daniel as a child prodigy, and referencing specifically that he was the youngest person ever to earn his doctorate at Oxford. So Daniel is actually younger than Charlotte.
  • Faraday was born on the island and lived with the others since his parents are there unless Eloise and maybe Charles agreed on sending him outside the island to get raised there.Majix123 23:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
  • People need to quit using the actor or actress' age as a method of guessing the age of the character they are playing. Do you know how hard it would be to cast ANY movie/show based off of the actual person's age playing them? It would be almost impossible & extremely limit who could play a part. When guessing an age, you must go off of the facts about the character you are given, not the actor who plays them.  NEVERGIVEUP  Contribs  Talk  12:26, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
  • I hope you're right, for the sake of those brave souls who cast the part of Benjamin Button. --I Am The Scum 19:03, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
  • I would also like people to try and stop connecting characters by names in the Bible. It makes absolutely no difference who the Bible says Jacob's third cousin is. etc.

Ethan[]

  • Ethan would have left the island with the women and children, being a baby. How is on the island later?--Domerin 03:49, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Reasonable question, though it's certainly not out of the question he does leave with Amy, but she and him simply return at some later date, when things are "safe" again on the island. Even though Chang's wife and Charlotte's mother never return does not mean that no parents ever return.
    • It would seem that Radynski is "foolishly initiating a war with Hostles". When will things ever be safe now? (Come to think of it, this episode explains Ben's respect for Horace after death, closing his eyes and no one else's - he was consistant because he never joined the Others and yet he never violent or idiotic enough to go to war with them.) This also brings to light the possibiltiy of Annie as an important off island character.Domerin 03:49, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Hostile Others[]

  • From season one we've wondered why the Others have been so hostile in their methods against the Survivors. If Richard remembers their aggressive nature in the seventies, when Ethan and Goodwin report back with their names and faces, then they believe they will be hostile to them - it seems to be in their nature. Ironically this will cause the survivors' hostile nature to them in seventies in the first place. So the whole aggressive tension between the islanders has been an accident of time. DHARMA and the Hostiles had a truce and Horace and Richard were even amiable. It was Radzinky's foolishness and Widmore's aggressiveness that will iniate that war, so that is more than a tragic accident.--Domerin 16:23, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Moved from Theory page[]

The below comments were moved from the theory page due to a lack of evidence that leads to a conclusion. If your theory is below, please add evidence as advised by LP:TP, and then move back to the appropriate place on the theory page.  NEVERGIVEUP  Contribs  Talk  20:08, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Journal[]

Richard: "I saw them die"[]

  • As Richard told Sun that he remembers clearly seeing all of the losties dying in 1977, we may assume that Jack's credo "live together or die alone" is going to make sense, especially for Jack who is going to detonate the Hydrogen Bomb all alone against the will of everyone else. This massive explosion will cause him, along with the electromagnetic energy of the island, to be somehow stuck and lost in space and time, and then he will call himself Jacob and he will form the group of the other to try relentlessly to change events of the future with his new abilities because he is only thinks about fixing things and saving people's life. (Please provide more evidence. As it stands, Jack was not alone when detonating bomb. If anything, Juliet would be the one "stuck" in time.)'

The compass[]

  • There is something interesting about the compass which John gives Richard, and Richard gives it back to John or vice versa. That compass only exists between the years 1954 and 2007, and there is no information about how that compass have been produced. (Great thought, but a theory will include what that "something interesting" is.)

Time traveling[]

  • If we believe that Locke still has some time travelling to do, perhaps he sees his future self after he meets Smokey in Season 1, starting all this in motion. The original scene was shown from the smoke monster's point of view, and perhaps we'll see Locke's perspective later. "I looked into the eye of this Island, and what I saw... was beautiful." (What is the theory? Evidence?)
    • Further, we've seen John Locke in Jacob's cabin many episodes ago, if my memory serves me right, Hugo saw him; looking out of the cabin. This may tell us there can be some unseen time-travel for us. And I think it can be during the 5th season's time-jump sessions. Also, John might have done some things more after turning the frozen donkey wheel; in three-years-later-real-world; he may well have lived that three years fully, maybe writers, haven't showed us yet. ('The Locke' in the cabin, also can be from the future; arranging his leadership with Jacob; or arranging the fake murder of Jacob; or something similar.) (What is the theory? If I understand correctly, most of this has been OBE.)

The Leader[]

  • Earlier, when discussing the purge and whose decision it was, Ben said their leader's. Perhaps the leader was Widmore because he said that the D.I. had declared war on them or Jack, as he is seen in a shooting scene in the barracks. (Please provide episode references, and remove speculation.)

The below comments were moved due to being discussion about the episodes title. Theory pages are not for that. That was done at Talk:Follow the Leader.

  • In times of trouble and when things do not go well, people blame their leader. Richard is the actual leader on the island but seems to be an adviser, a vizier to the puppet leader. He makes his people believe that he is not responsible for the decisions and consequences. He also made up a legend called Jacob or if there is a Jacob indeed he trapped Jacob in a cabin using the ash circle. Richard is the man behind the curtain.
  • The leader also refers to Radzinsky, who effectively usurped power as "leader" of the on-isle Dharmites from the waffling Horace. The word leader refers to a number of leadership changes in the episode.
  • Agree with the above. There are *many* leaders in this episode. Locke to the Others in 2007, Ellie/Widmore to the Others in 1977, Richard as an "adviser" to these leaders. We even see a scene of the 3 main leaders of the others.. Locke/Ben/Richard together (I cant recall seeing an episode where all 3 have been prominently seen in a scene or even a frame. There's something poignant about seeing the 3 of them together) Then there's Jack taking charge of Daniel's mission and leading Ellie/Richard/Sayid, Radzinsky taking over Horace, Chang taking charge somewhat with the island evacuation, Miles as the uncharacteristic leader Jin and Hurley, and finally we even see Sawyer's fall from leadership role among the Dharmites and yet still trying to assert himself somewhat.
  • The leader refers to all the leadership roles taken in "Follow the Leader." It refers to multiple people.
  • Given that the human body is largely a mass of flesh energized by impulses of electricity, and that electricity occurs at various frequencies, a leader on the island is one whose personal frequencies are in harmonic resonance with the energy of island. And being in harmonic resonance with the energy of the island allows the leader to "know" things other people cannot perceive. Richard and the Others/Hostiles may be immortal but none resonate with the island's energy, except perhaps Jacob.
  • The idea of the title isn't the leader himself, but rather one who follows the leader - in both past and present Richard. In other words, the episode's title is just a metaphor for "Richard".
  • The leader is actually Hurley, who is the only one to stumble upon Jacob's cabin naturally. The person Following the Leader is Dr. Pierre Chang, who is now implementing the evacuation. Hurley is the one most connected to The Numbers and something about this is why the code following the incident requires them to be entered into the computer, although this doesn't explain the numbers being stamped onto the outside of the hatch.
  • If one wants to get truly literal, "Follow the Leader" is also a childrens' game wherein one child leads and the others imitate him exactly. This sounds like SmokeyAlex's instruction to Ben to follow Locke exactly. It's interesting to note that in the game, as in on the island, the Leader continually changes, and so does the way "things are done".

Kill Jacob[]

  • Jack(ob) cannot be killed. (Yes, Jacob's eye is Jack's eye.)
  • The island wants Locke to kill Jacob, who has been a false leader working along with Alpert and previous leaders against the island's wishes.
    • To take this a step further: The voice Locke heard in the cabin wasn't Jacob, but the island calling for help. That was Locke's first glimpse of the island giving him orders.
  • Killing Jacob will allow him to return to life, like John.
    • The requirement to kill you father as a leadership initiation rite for both John and Ben may have been a test to determine whether they could carry out the task of killing Jacob later.
  • I have a theory, please follow me; Jacob is Jack, time-displaced. Say Jack is successful in detonating Jughead. The resulting massive release of the "Swan" energy does everything that Daniel expects it to, except that Jack, after being exposed to such a massive release of Island energy (like Desmond), finds himself thrown back into the ancient past of the Island. He assumes a false identity as Jacob. He eventually manages to place himself in a position of power among the past inhabitants. Jack would always want Flight 815 to land safely in LA. Locke, however, would obviously want the opposite. Therefore, it would ultimately be up to John Locke to kill Jack, as Jacob, to "course-correct" the differences that were created in the time lines. The details are sketchy and it involves another theory about alternate time lines, but the general concept is there; enjoy. (Juliet was closest to the bomb, then Sawyer, not Jack. She would have experienced the most affect.)
  • Just like Ben, Jacob could also be replaced. It probably takes longer though. The island somehow told Locke (perhaps in "Dead is Dead" when Locke was in the woods) to kill Jacob so his replacement (Christian) can take over.
  • The Monster and Jacob are opposite and competing entities. Locke has always had a connection to the monster, and this was played up very much in Dead is Dead, especially when the Monster (as Alex) threatened Ben to do whatever Locke says.

Below added on 6/18/09 - NEVERGIVEUP  Contribs  Talk  15:54, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

The Swan Station[]

  • Inman is involved with Bram & Co. and was placed on the island to achieve their goals, just as he was placed in Iraq to interact with Sayid. (Without evidence this is just speculation.)
  • Sawyer will draw Radzinsky Locke's map from the hatch, which Radzinsky will draw, which Locke will find, which Sawyer will draw... and so on.

What's going on with Locke[]

  • John is dead. The John who is acting now is a time-traveling John, having left sometime during the three previous years (perhaps with Hawkings help) and traveled to the point when Ben and the rest crash landed on the island again. John will do what he needs to do with Jacob and to fulfill his destiny on the island, then travel back to the point where Ben kills him, knowing that it is due to killing John that Ben will seek redemption from the Island and be forced to be John's ally. (What "three previous years" are you speaking of. Please reference episodes. John was only off-island for 1 month at most, due to turning the wheel caused him to time travel 3 years into the future.)

These theories need to be re-worked due to the development of Jacob's nemesis.

  • When Locke said "the Island told me", regarding when exactly he would arrive injured at the Beechcraft, he is referring to a phenomenon similar to the one that Desmond experienced when Daniel went back to the Swan. When Daniel "changed" something in Desmond's past, he awoke in the future with full recollection of what happened; maybe someone did the same thing to John Locke, going back into his past & imparting knowledge on him that he "awoke" with upon returning to the Island.
  • Dying seems to have worked out pretty well for Locke. Maybe dying will be good for Jacob. I think Jacob is the true leader of the island and he's been trapped by someone, maybe even Richard. Ben wasn't really the leader, he was faking. John Locke is truly supposed to be the leader of the island and he's headed off to kill Jacob and take his place. I don't think Jacob will see this as a bad thing. This is exactly the help that Jacob was asking for.
  • This is exactly what happened to Alpert. Alpert doesn't age, but is mortal: A very old spirit uses Alpert's dead body as a vessel to have things under control on the island. Locke is now also inhabited (that doesn't mean that his old personality is wiped out). So just like Alpert and Christian, Locke won't age from now on. Because all of these men share one thing: They're dead. But as Christian seems to be a ghost apparition/vision sometimes, the new vessel (Christian) of Jacob is somehow troubled and Jacob cannot wander around like Locke/Alpert. This is why Locke needs to kill Jacob's vessel: So that Jacob can finally take a newer and better body, which permits him to be around 24/7 and talk to everyone. (This theory needs to be re-worked due to development of Jacob's nemesis and Richard saying he doesn't age because Jacob made him that way.)
  • The resurrected Locke has been inhabited/influenced by an entity that is aligned with Ilana and Bram's people, who oppose the hostiles and their cult of Jacob, and that is why Locke wants to kill Jacob.

Richard Alpert[]

  • This is not exactly a Richard centric however some things may have been revealed about him- Locke has shown is incredible connection with the island, for example when he knew he would be at the plane. However he seems to be defying a kind of leader code. As previously stated Jacob is not one someone visits but to one who is summoned. Locke is so quickly just trying to go see him, and to make matters worse he goes and makes that announcement to the others. Richard seems to express a subtle annoyance by his actions and does not agree with him but it seems he can not help but go along with him. Richard may have to go against Locke and is being put in a difficult position over how to act, and due to dialogue clues he may go against him. Also when Locke comes to greet Richard with the boar and he says there is something different about him, during this scene there is an ominous somewhat Egyptian sounding background music and it seemed to stand out when mixed in with Richard being able to detect something different about Locke. (What is the actual theory here? Theory page isn't for discussion.)
  • This episode clarifies that he is not a good person. When he and Ben are talking about how John may be a problem, they clearly have had plans. The new people on Ajira 316 are Richard's people, the people wanting to take over the Island. John Locke is the first person to really become the Island's leader, Ben was never the leader, he couldn't speak to Jacob, that is why he shot John when John heard Jacob say "Help me." John was a threat to Ben's and Richard's plan, that is why Ben has tried to kill him multiple times, but the Island won't let it happen. The plea for help from Jacob is one concerning Ben and Richard, and Jacob is a prisoner in suffering, asking for death from John so that he may be free. Richard made Ben leader in order to get Widmore off the Island and carry out his own plan. Ben and Richard have been battling Widmore and Abaddon, the real good guys who have the Island's best interest in mind, which is exactly why they work so hard to get John on the Island. Richard's true nature and intentions will come out in the season finale. (This theory needs to be re-worked due to the events of The Incident, Parts 1 & 2.)'
  • For whatever reason, despite the fact that Richard seems to have a hand in selection of the leader for the Others, he almost ALWAYS seems at odds with the current leader. There was that scene earlier this season when he said he doesn't answer to either Ellie or Charles. He obviously was at odds with Ben by the end of season 3 and more so at the end of season 4 (his first reaction to Ben this episode was "what is he doing here?"). And now, he seems to have an issue with what Locke is doing. (Theory here? or just discussion?)
  • What if Richard was an Egyptian God/Pharoe who's tomb got raided by the Black Rock pirates? They put his tomb on board and when the boat eventually ends up on the island, Richard comes to life the same way Christian & Locke have?

The Hydrogen Bomb[]

  • As it is buried under the DHARMA barracks, it is the cause of the islanders' infertility over the years. This explains why outsiders, Claire and Sun, were able to give birth and conceive on the island. (Please explain why Daniel said that if they plug the hole and bury it, then they would be safe from it's harm.)

You can't change the past[]

  • Exactly. Faraday was able to do the theory work off island after he left that proves they are the variables by solving the problem of changing the values of Valenzetti Equation. He knew what he was doing when the told little Charlotte whatever it was he told her. He knew he was putting himself at risk so the Jack and the gang could get it done. Thats why he was so confrontational with Richard as to provoke a violent response thus convincing Jack that he was certain in what he was saying. (Please provide evidence or something to show his off-island research. He explained his "variable" thinking to Jack/Kate. This is most likely all we will get as an explaination to the "variable" theory.)

Below added on 6/19/09 - NEVERGIVEUP  Contribs  Talk  16:46, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

The Two Sides in the War[]

  • One side wants to change the timeline, the other wants to keep it. Among the Losties some are already aligned with one or the other side. Kate and John will lose big if the timeline is changed. Jack wants to have is old life back and save all the dead. In the end the time line will be changed but in the new time line another group will have the opportunity to change things and it will be hinted that their change will reestablished the time line we witnessed. The time line will keep alternating for eternity. (Maybe, but this is just speculation without evidence.)
  • Ilana, Bram, and John Locke are all on the Island's side. They are trying to take control of the island back from Jacob, who was on the Black Rock and whose crew has ruled over the island since they crashed there.
    • Also, possibly Jack, Christian, Claire, and most of the other Losties are on the island's side, though most aren't consciously aware of it.
  • Jacob has been trapped for some time, not just since 2004, but for some time since Ben first encoutnered him, or we would know that something changed with Jacob. Jacob may be the bad guy, but Christian is still with him, and is his instrument in acting outside his physical limitations
  • Jacob died a long time ago, and since then a new group of people have claimed power, by claiming that he's still alive - only living in solitude and "summoning" them when he has new instructions. One side of the war is those who know that Jacob is dead and the other side is those currently in power under the guise of Jacob. (Please re-work theory after events of "The Incident, Part 1".)
  • The two sides are controlled by Alvar Hanso and Thomas Mittelwerk. Phil is a younger Thomas Mittelwerk, Mittelwerk has no actual degree from any institution because he spent his earlier life on the island. Something happens, and Phil leaves and becomes Mittelwerk, and the final struggle of Lost will be Hanso's group versus Mittelwerk's group. (Evidence???)

Kate[]

  • Kate is a Dharma kid; if Jack completes Daniel's plan, she will never be born. Her mother Diane was known as Annie as a child and is Ben's little friend/lover.
  • Kate is pregnant and will tell Jack this, which will stop him from detonating Jughead.

Locke vs Jack[]

  • Jacob and Jack have some connection or Jacob is some kind of Jack in a different time and dimension. the similarity in names may have something to do with this signal. but currently Jack is not aware that he could be Jacob.
  • Makes sense if Jack = Jacob; themes on this show have been seen to run full circle before - we will now be returning to the Locke/Jack(Jacob) rivalry that has been built up and explained for so long. Locke understands what is happening and he needs Ben's help (hence the monster-errand to gain his trust). From Locke's dialogue we can now assume that Jacob and the Island are not interchangeable entities with the same goals in mind; Jacob is working against the island/using it. This sounds like the science v. faith schism from season 2. Jacob/Jack wants to use his power and the island to try to and change the timeline and prevent 815 from crashing- this has been his goal for eternity since landing in the island's ancient past after causing the incident - it is here that he is able (perhaps unintentionally) to convince the island's Egyptian forebears that he is Anubis, the God of the Dead. Later when he controls the Others he tries to get them to eradicate the U.S. army to prevent the Jughead problem, he fails. Then he hopes to drive Dharma off the island; he fails. Every attempt to change/fix things fails. Locke is willing to remove this interference and free Jack/Jacob by "killing" him - what's left of him.
  • Locke is Jacob. This is why no one else has seen Jacob, because if Richard, Ben, or anyone else had SEEN Jacob, they would realize who Locke is and dispose of him. Locke becomes Jacob through the way that he has convinced Richard he is special... by creating his own destiny.
  • Jack has a deeper understanding than what he leads on, much like Locke. He will learn this secret while working with Richard on the bomb and sacrifice himself to save his people.
  • For some reason, Jack is yet aware of his Jacob-ness. His tattoo may be the key that reawakens his memory, soon.

Ship in a Bottle[]

  • The Black Rock/Hanso story will be central to the final season and the ship in the bottle foreshadow's. (Maybe, but that's just speculation.)
  • We never actually see Richard building the ship, simply hoisting the "jib." An action that would send the actual ship sailing forward at a much quicker speed. This represents the story picking up speed at this point. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The real dave-id (talk • contribs) . (This is not a theory as it can never have factual evidence to support it and will never be proven true or false. Of coarse the story is going to pick up... it is leading up to the season finale and final season.)
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