Contents 1 Illana 2 being a downer 3 Widmore & Ben's "mutual friend" 4 Old DHARMA/New Dharma 5 Ben's Memory 6 Where Locke Went 7 Time of day 8 Cerberus 9 Moved from Theory page as discussion 10 Robert's Lie / Jacob's Desire

IllanaEdit

Illana is an Other or an "Other" who is loyal to/working for Charles Widmore (presumably Bram is as well). It seems like her question "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" was some sort of question to confirm loyalty towards a leader/group of people (most likely Widmore) --Pags 02:21, 9 April 2009 (UTC)Pags

• Great point. Widmore probably put together a quick group of people at the last minute when Ben told him he found a way back to the island. He tracked Ben to the ajira flight & put his people onboard. Widmore probably didn't have time to have them all meet, so he gave them the "challenge" phrase & answer to help them figure out who was on their team.-- NEVERGIVEUP  Contribs  Talk  13:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
  • Problem with this theory is that Ilana had already arrested Sayid and was underway with her plan (whatever it was) the night BEFORE Ben even made the call to Widmore
• Just thought about this.... If that is the case & they are Widmore's people then why didn't they just kill Ben as soon as they arrived on the Island?-- NEVERGIVEUP  Contribs  Talk  13:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Seems unlikely that she and her companions were all working for Widmore and miraculously expected to suffer through a plane crash to land on an island they've never been to because some guy (Widmore) promised them. seems more like they suffered the "sickness," similar to the French men.

I have come to doubt that she is either an Other (as Ben should be able to recognize other Others) or that she has been infected (as that would require her to have perviously been on the Island left and returned, which I think they have made fairly clear is a verrry difficult task). My theory is that these people are the people that both Widmore and Walt warned Locke about, they are the ones who are going to bring a war to the Island.--WhyDidntUKnow 17:34, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

• Maybe they are from the US government? Remember that the US government had people testing nuclear weapons on the island, but their men were killed? Perhaps it took them awhile to find a way back to the island, but they have now sent people back to wage war on the Others since the Others were the people who killed many members of the US army? Just a thought. It does seem more likely that they are working for Widmore--Pags 18:38, 9 April 2009 (UTC)Pags

• Yes. A third party would definitely provide a game-changing element. Jack Dutton 19:45, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

• I believe a nice theory about Ilana is she and her friends being sent by DI. This is supported by the Comic Con video with dr. Chang and the connection of Hawking to both DI and Ajira flight. So Hawking may provide the information about how to get back on the island and DI somehow planting the crate on board of Ajira. Still unknown are the reasons of Ilana capturing Sayid (though maybe it's Hawking again, contributing to recreation of 815 circumstances). The fact that Ilana captured Sayid day before Ben called Charles also spreads doubts about the theory that Ilana pledged allegiance to Widmore. --Timich 22:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
  • Good point. E. Hawking definately seemed to have an alterior motive to wanting the Losties to return to the island. She needed them to re-created the flight so that the plane would experience whatever it was that sent them to the island. She knew that was the only way to get people to the island in this manner & used them to transport the new DI to the island. Someone on the theory page had a good theory about the case/box having a working transmiter beacon that would be needed for say, a submarine, to find the island.-- NEVERGIVEUP  Contribs  Talk  17:27, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

My vote is definitely for Ilana being a representative of the DI. The DI is one party that has not been represented in the present day. If after the purge, the island was lost for them, being moved or at least hidden, by way of the looking glass, or whatever shields or cloaks the island, then they have been trying to get back to the island for years. The comic Con hints are about as clear as it can be that Ilana's group are mercenaries of the DI. Maybe Widmore's goons will have been nothing compared to Dharma's team--Jaywallin 23:40, 9 April 2009 (UTC)Jaywallin\

• I am definitely starting to think that Illana and crew are part of the DI. They obviously knew they were going to the island seeing as they all have some sort of plan and secret question which is used to authorize another person's "membership" to their group. Remember that the DI and the Others are the only people who know how to find the island. Even if Eloise Hawking isn't assisting the new DI with finding the island, it's very possible that they built another station on their own to locate the island.--Pags 15:02, 10 April 2009 (UTC)Pags

being a downer Edit

As always, I enjoyed immensely...but does anyone else feel a little spoon fed? Annarboral 04:45, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

• Even if I do, I sure as hell like this spoon feeding a lot! --Timich 21:55, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
• why? because finally the show's creators are filling in some of the massive holes they have left in the story? They can't just keep opening up new doors all the time, if they did that this show would end and there would be no resolution.
  • Agree - 2 episodes in a row where more questions are answered than asked. Is that a Lost first?

• Do you want them to finish the story or not? (and yes as much as I want more I want the end too)--WhyDidntUKnow 20:44, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Widmore & Ben's "mutual friend"Edit

While Ben was talking to Widmore on the phone at the dock before he shoot's Desomond, he tells Widmore he is about to kill Penny & to prove to Widmore that he was telling the truth, here is what he says (Dead is Dead transcript#Act5)..... BEN: Kill your daughter. In fact, I'm looking at Our Mutual Friend right now. WIDMORE: I don't know what you're talking about. BEN: It's the name of the boat that Penny's on. ..... Widmore knows the name of Penny's boat & uses that to prove to Widmore where Ben was at. The name of the Penny & Desmond's boat is the answer to who their "mutual friend" is. We don't know the name of the boat yet, but I believe this is "Eloise". Ben has shown that Eloise Hawking is his "friend" & Widmore know's Eloise proven because he gave Desmond her address to go see her. Eloise Hawking could be Penny's mother.-- NEVERGIVEUP  Contribs  Talk  14:26, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

The HD version clearly shows the name of the boat. At the 33:10 mark, Penny is working on deck. One side reads "Gibraltar" and the other reads "Our Mutual Friend." Good thinking, though. Jack Dutton 20:05, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

I think you're reading it wrong. The boat's name is literally "Our Mutual Friend", named after the Charles Dickens novel that Desmond carries with him in season 2 with the picture of Penny in it. Bjelost 15:31, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

• I understand what you are saying (due to Desmond's love of the book & Penny's note he kept in it), but there has been no evidence yet of the actual name of the boat. It could be the writers leading you down 1 path to reveal another.-- NEVERGIVEUP  Contribs  Talk  15:38, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

• I see what you are doing there, but i think you are makign it WAY too complicated. The history desmond/penny have with that book, and the fact that it confuses Charles (remember, he hasn't heard from Penny in years) point to the actual name being Our Mutual Friend --Robotron1971 16:50, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
• The more I think about it, I do believe I was wrong & the name of the boat is Our Mutual Friend. That would be too much of a coincidence. I will not delete this incase anyone else has reasoning to believe that the real name of the boat is the name of a person that is friends with Ben & Widmore & not literally Our Mutual Friend.  NEVERGIVEUP  Contribs  Talk  16:59, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

• Agreed. Until we know for sure you cannot rule it out. John, Richard, and Eloise are the two most notable "mutual friends" of Charles and Ben, but it is unlikely the boat is named after them. Think about it - if Desmond was told to find Eloise, wouldn't he think "Eloise? That's the name of my bleedin' boat. And the rat that died!" And it is unlikely that Ben would know the significance of "Our Mutual Friend," and it is not a common expression. Now, if Dez/Penny purchased a used boat named "Hanso" or "DeGroot" or "Jacob" - well, that would be intriguing. Jack Dutton 19:57, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

• Desmond's previous boat was named "Elizabeth". Maybe as in "Ellie"—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Djainette (talk • contribs) .
  • No, Elizabeth was named after Libby by her deceased husband, David.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 18:59, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

On this note, I'd like to comment on Penny and Desmond's photograph. It was taken in London with a backdrop that Penny picked. The back drop clearly shows the palm trees and white faced buildings of this Long Beach Marina. I consider that Fate, (reoccuring themes) and foreshadowing (literary tecniques). Annarboral 23:23, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Old DHARMA/New Dharma Edit

Who are we talking about? The old DHARMA was present on the Island, but also had facilities elsewhere. Ann Arbor is a good example. The new Dharma was a creation for the hiatus. It went broke when the management absconded with its funds and was subsequently sold to the producers of Lost. That takes it out of the picture. Within the mythos, there are no such things as "producers." Pierre Chang didn't ask for some new organization to come to his aid. He wanted the old DHARMA (Department of Heuristic...) to be reconstituted. After all, someone in DHARMA was air dropping supplies to the Island. DHARMA is out there; it's trying to come back.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 17:53, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

• True, but couldn't that have just been part of the ARG & they could still incorporate the Comic-Con video & premise of a new Dharma into the show? Obviously the plot of the show was in place long before the Dharma Initiative Recruiting Project ARG was cut out. If this was always in place to bring Dharma back then this could be the beginning. But you are right, we are theorizing based off of non-cannon work (Comic-Con video).  NEVERGIVEUP  Contribs  Talk  18:35, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Ben's Memory Edit

Here is the problem I find with this whole question about Ben's memory. If you are reading this statement, I want you to picture the face of your 6th or 7th grade teacher. Unless you are 18-19 years old, I bet MOST of you are like me & can't even remember their name, much less their face. Unless the Losties had some signifcant part in Ben's life (ie: Sayid shooting him), it isn't a given that he would remember them even if he comes back to DHARMA & they are still there. We don't know what happens to Sayid, but we do know that after he shot Ben (& Ben now can't remember that), he ran off into the woods probably to never see young Ben again.  NEVERGIVEUP  Contribs  Talk  18:02, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

• Well put. Ben remembers something about Juliet. (For the longest time, we thought he was comparing Juliet to his mother.) Juliet does something special for him that is etched in his mind.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 18:27, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Where Locke Went Edit

When Ben is initially goes to summon 'the monster' (which Ben did NOT call Cerberus) Sun says Locke had something to do. Any thoughts? If I posted in the wrong place or you need to refine my question, please shoot me a message so I don't makie the same mistake again. Mathewbrooks 22:05, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

• First, you're doing fine. I think Locke went to visit Jacob (or his rep, Christian) to get instructions on how to get to the Temple, since we have no proof Locke previously knew where it was.
  • This is a good thought, but assuming that you mean he went to Jacob's cabin to visit him.... there doesn't seem to have been enough time for him to do that. Locke was there when Ben went into the house & arrived shortly after Ben came out. I know the show isn't in real time like the show 24, but it didn't seem to take Ben a long time to unplug the drain, say "I'll be outside" & then leave the house. That doesn't seem to be enough time for Locke to travel to the cabin (which seems to be outside of the sonar fence, even though it is moving) & get back to DHARMAville.  NEVERGIVEUP  Contribs  Talk  12:21, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  • Maybe Christian was waiting for him in the woods, but how would he know that? NEVERGIVEUP  Contribs  Talk  12:21, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  • I should have added that we don't know where the cabin is from one day to the next. But Locke probably met with Christian ("Jacob's spokesman") rather than Jacob himself. My guess is that Locke expected Christian to be able to find him -- after all, he showed up in the wheel chamber with no apparent entrance -- and went a short distance into the tree line so Christian would not be seen by Sun and Ben.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 13:49, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
• FLocke went to the temple to prepare the spot where Ben would later crash through the floor.

Time of dayEdit

• When Frank and Sun arrived at the Island, it was dark. They walked to the processing center where they met Christian while it was still dark (dark again?).
• When Ben and Locke arrived at the Island, it was light. They walked to Ben's house where, when they arrived, it was dark. There they met Sun and Frank.
• What does this tell us about time and distances?

--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 00:32, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

• It is hard to know for sure since we don't know the exact times (ie: 8am, 10pm) that these events occurred. Meaning, while there are approx 10-12 hrs of dark every night.... there is about a 1-2 hr time span during day that goes from light to dark (dusk). Assuming that these differences of day & night are purposeful to show the distance of the processing center & barracks from the Pala Ferry, you can assume that the barracks are farther from the Pala Ferry dock than the processing center is. This would also seem to be confirmed in Namaste due to them having to take DHARMA vans & other modes of shuttle to get from the dock/processing center to the barracks.  NEVERGIVEUP  Contribs  Talk  13:25, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
• I don't think the Pala Ferry dock has anything to do with it; that dock had a structure at the seaward end and no light poles. However, there's another little item nagging at me. When young Ben first arrived at the Island (in daylight), Ben looked down the dock at the activity. When Ben and Locke arrived at the Island (in daylight), Ben looked down the dock and it was dark under the trees. It's daytime around the Island, but nighttime on the Island?--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 14:11, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
• Good call. I got the dock wrong about being the Pala Ferry but it was the Processing Center dock. Either way, I'm not sure I'm onboard with the daytime around the island but nighttime on the island theory. Could have just been a different time of day where the sun was blocked by a mountain or something. This difference has never been noticeable before from the Losties beach camp looking into the woods or any other views of the island from the water.  NEVERGIVEUP  Contribs  Talk  14:42, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
• Yes, if the Sun were descending on the other side of the Island, there would be shadows under the trees. That could also account for it being dark when they got to Ben's house. Problem solved, assuming any Island problem can be called solved.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 15:21, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Cerberus Edit

The 'monster' is probably only called cerberus by the DI. The others, as Ben stated, do not have a name for it. Mathewbrooks 13:01, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Moved from Theory page as discussion Edit

The following was moved from Theory page as it is discussion & not evidence to backup. Therefore, it is all UNSIGNED.

• Ben realized, only too late, that it wasn't actually Widmore who was responsible for killing his daughter and that it was himself. He was always destined to be responsible for the death of Alex and he realized that Widmore never actually broke the rules and this explains why he was sorry to Desmond. He had sent himself on a fool's errand in trying to kill Penny and had almost killed Desmond in the process.
  • Right, this is why the anagram of Martin Keamy is "Karma Enmity" - we all know what Karma means (spiritual "currency"/debt) and enmity (FYI) means "positive, active and typically MUTUAL hatred or ill will." Keamy was not just a physical agent of Widmore but also a spiritual agent of the island (metaphorically).
    • No, anagrams mean nothing. This has never been hinted at, and you can twist anagrams any way you want.
  • Desmond could barely protect Charlie for a week. An infant could be "course corrected" easily. If the Island's plan was for Ben to sacrifice Alex (like Abraham and Isaac) then Alex would have to wait until Ben was prepared to do it.
    • It would explain why they relocated to the barracks as the smoke monster cant reach inside, although Alex seems to be outside the barracks quite alot. Just to point out why an infant wouldn't necessarily be easy to course correct.
      • The smoke monster can reach the barracks. That's one of the reason's for the sonic fence...but that can be turned off. The smoke monster can not only reach the barracks, it can be summoned from the barracks. Ben summoned the monster to distract Keamy and his men.
    • This nuance mirrors Locke's ordeal, murdering his father. He was unable to do it, but he found someone that could. Similarly, Ben was unable to kill Danielle or Alex, but his actions eventually resulted in their deaths. Ben did not understand this purpose until John revealed it to him on the dock.
  • The island didn't want Alex dead, Widmore did. They made that pretty clear when Ben asked Widmore about two different times and Widmore couldn't answer because it was for his own personal reasons, not Jacob's and not the island's.
    • Ben said sorry to Desmond because he shot him.
  • If this is the case then, every persons death is a course correction because they were "supposed" to die when they were a baby. Ben kidnapping Alex & her being shot are way to far apart in years to be a course correction. Let's not just look for way's to say "course correction" is the cause to everything. Ben is sorry because he SHOT Desmond. Nothing more. Everything is not a mystery.
    • Disagree - Ben is sorry because he attacked Desmond and Penny in revenge for Alex, but once he accepted blame for Alex's death, he also accepted fault in attacking Desmond and Penny. He wanted to say sorry for attacking Desmond's wife/family - much worse than just shooting Desmond. That fact he shot Desmond was unimportant. But he has made an enemy of Desmond, which will trigger his re-engagement with the story and his return to the Island. for this he will go to Eloise, or even Widmore. Widmore will help - he had Ben on the phone saying he was about to kill Penny.

Robert's Lie / Jacob's Desire Edit

Robert lies to Widmore about why he saved Ben. He tells him "Jacob wanted it done. The Island chooses who the Island chooses..." In actuality this is not true; Robert chose him and he has not been chosen by Jacob. He has only been judged by the Smoke. This deception is the beginning of the end of the Hostiles. It allows an "in" for Jacob's nemesis to subvert the group. Later, Widmore tells Ben to kill baby-Alex, but Ben counters with the question: "Is this what Jacob wants?" Jacob wants his people to be good and treat others with kindness. Widmore is trying to protect the island, if only using draconian measures of purging possible "infected". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Guidedbyvoip (talk • contribs) .

• I think you mean Richard (Alpert), not Robert???? - NEVERGIVEUP  Contribs  Talk  18:58, September 7, 2009 (UTC)