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Flashback characters[]

I'm not doing that, cause there's a lot of characters in the flashback that might or might not count.

And we are counting the number of alive bodies on the island, not the dead ones! --Novajoe23 08:21, 29 March 2006 (PST)

Alive bodies sounds like a bad oxymoron, or maybe a zombie flic. 'Body count' as a term relates to the number of casualties. But I don't mind/care really, just pointing out that the article name is misleading. --skks 11:18, 29 March 2006 (PST)

Clarification?[]

Should there be a brief note at the top of the article saying something along the lines of "counting down from earliest known number to latest known number"? It took me a moment to figure out this was a count-down and not a list adding things up, and I consider myself one smart cookie. Ok thx bie :P~~ --Jre 03:55, 12 April 2006 (PDT)

Well same here, the article title says 'Body Count' when the article lists people that are alive instead of the (dead) bodies. --skks 05:14, 12 April 2006 (PDT)
I suggest renaming/redirect to "Survivor Count", as well as a brief explanation at the top on what follows. Any thoughts? --Jre 05:23, 12 April 2006 (PDT)

I'm not sure this is correct, but in the Tail section might be a mistake. If the original number is 23, Goodwin is included (so it says). If not, as the * suggests, he should not be discounted from the original number.

Sorry if I'm wrong. BACrows Argentina

If you look closer, the list starts at 22, then goes down to 5 right before Goodwin's death. When Goodwin dies, the count is still at 5. It does not remove from the previous count. --Charugan 13:53, 21 April 2006 (PDT)



2 Others revelated in 2x23[]

Please insert 2 Others in body count. They was following Jack, Michael, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley in episode 2x23. 1 was killed by Sawyer and the other run away.

The correct is:

Known Non-Survivors On Island

  • 18 - Original known non-survivors*
  • 16 - Ethan Rom killed by Charlie
  • 15 - Two of the Others killed by Mr. Eko
  • 14 - Female Other killed by Ana-Lucia
  • 13 - Goodwin killed by Ana-Lucia
  • 12 - Man Other killed by Sawyer in 2x23


An idea: numerate known non-survivors

  • - Known non-survivors:

"Him"(1), Ethan Rom(2), Danielle Rousseau(3), Alexandra Rousseau(4), Zeke(5), Woman in Others' boat(6), Twin #1 and Twin #2 in Others' boat(7-8), Desmond(9), 2 Others killed by Eko(10-11), Female Other killed by Ana-Lucia(12), Goodwin(13), "Henry Gale"(14), Pickett(15), Ms. Klugh(16), Two Others following castaways in 2x23(17-18)

More one idea: Create a subdivision to include known pre-crash dead people on the island. Example: Adam and Eve, Kelvin Inman, Rousseau's expedition members, etc

--Dusuarez 00:27, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

Tailies[]

Question: The tailies article says four people died, but the body count says that three have died. At any rate, I did the math myself, and came up with a different final total of people. Maybe someone could help me out? It's over in Talk:tailies --Jujo 11:04, 2 June 2006 (PDT)

Tried actually counting with my fingers, and everything's okay now. IF four people died, instead of three.--Jujo 11:08, 2 June 2006 (PDT)

I'm not sure of the body count for the tailies : we can see seven more persons buried on the beach in 2x07 when Donald is the 8th to be buried. -- Alex 13:28, 22 June 2006 (PDT)

  • I'm sure that the other graves belong to the Others that Eko/Ana-Lucia killed, and def belong to some deceased passengers/crew that Eko pulled out of the water. Two of the graves def. belong to Donald and the Female Tailie and I believe the 3rd belongs to the Male Tailie, but the last is unknown.--Mistertrouble189 18:15, 16 June 2008 (PDT)
You're right - it has to be 4 dead tailies. They said 22: 3 abducted initially + 9 abducted later + 1 abducted during the hike (Cindy) + 1 killed by Ana Lucia (Nathan) + 4 who completed the hike (Libby, Ana Lucia, Eko, Bernard) = 18 total. So four had to have died before the hike, one of which is Donald. --FlyingArrow 19:38, 4 July 2008 (PDT)



Radzinsky[]

Does Radzinsky not count as a Known Non-Survivor On Island? --elpaw 13:57, 13 September 2006 (PDT)

Until we know for sure that he is a real person no he does not.--CaptainInsano 14:14, 13 September 2006 (PDT)
As like Science expedition survivors. We dont't have sure that they are real.--dusuarez 18:35, 19 October 2006 (PDT)
I can see both sides of this and sort of agree with Cap. However, someone edited this Radz in for the millionth time, so I'll just leave it in with a note about the doubt; we'll see what others think about this. I personally could go either way on it. Danielle doesn't have as much reason to lie about the science team as Kelvin, a known liar might. You could compare this to the situation with Libby telling us she is a psychologist; we are never sure of any of the flashback character's professions when they just say they are one thing, but Libby's credibility is shot, thus the doubt. --PandoraX 14:34, 1 November 2006 (PST)
Nevermind, looks like we got a pretty definitive answer. The Fuselage


Missing Persons[]

I think that there should be a missing persons section...maybe as a mystery of the island, that included those taken from the tail section, Kelvin (until he is proven dead), maybe even Walt and Michael, (although the rumor is that they will be returning to the island). Obviously people who have actually been burried would not fall into this catagory.--ASEO 08:58, 23 October 2006 (PDT)

Merge with Life and death ?[]

  • Yes - I think this should be merged into Life and death.--Dagg 08:47, 6 November 2006 (PST)
  • Merge: I wouldn't burst out into a fit of anger if it stays though.--CaptainInsano 15:06, 6 November 2006 (PST)
  • Don't merge. Separate articles with different types of subject matter. This is a countdown, the other is an introspective look at it. --Aero*Zeppelin 18:28, 6 November 2006 (PST)
  • Don't merge but REWRITE Life and Death. Life and death is supposed to be a recurring theme in the series so it would better a normal article explaining this about Life and Death in the series and give some examples and probably a link here. A body count is supposed to be a list. So it's better to put a "rewrite" tag to Life and Death. -- 19:25, 6 November 2006 (PST)
  • I went ahead and removed the Merge tag, and added cross-references within the pages.--Dagg 22:37, 6 November 2006 (PST)
  • Dagg is right! The content of Body Count really have be only a list of dead people. But the actual content can be organized in a new article (maybe a Population Count or a Census) listing the population in the island (dead and alive).--dusuarez BRAF 20:22, 12 November 2006 (PST)
  • On the title of this article, I believe the only reason that it was named "Body Count" was because it was stolen verbatum, chart coding and all, off of lost.cubit.net. I complained about this, and someone took off the coding so that it wasn't completely plagerized, and since then it has evolved independently on Lostpedia, so I was glad to see that. I agree it is a different topic from Life & Death and should remain separate, though possibly with a rewrite to that article so that it is more organized and looks into the theme on a deeper level rather than just count everything as this one does. A census, on the other hand, is a slice in time, and I don't think we need that necessarily, since we have articles such as Characters already. The body count is sort of like a census without names, and tracking it through time rather than at one point in time,so I think this article is needed as it is now. --PandoraX 20:28, 12 November 2006 (PST)



Vincent?[]

Is Vincent included in the body count? An edit the other day had me thinking (it said 'Vincent has to count for something!'). >: 4 8 15 16 23 42 15:09, 31 March 2007 (PDT)

Why would he be included anyway, he is still alive. If he died, yes I'd say count him.   Hooper   talk    contribs    email   15:14, 31 March 2007 (PDT)
I mean, is he included in the 38 survivors still alive? >: 4 8 15 16 23 42 04:30, 2 April 2007 (PDT)

Tailie Count Blooper[]

Should it be listed on the blooper page that the tailie count is wrong, missing the still surviving Rose and Bernard? Or is this accounted for somewhere that I am missing?   Hooper   talk    contribs    email   15:28, 31 March 2007 (PDT)

It has Bernard accounted for, he is the one beside Eko's death. Rose was a fuselage survivor, so she shouldn't be on the tail section list.--CaptainInsano 15:30, 31 March 2007 (PDT)
Oh god of course she was a survivor from the first camp. I can't believe that slipped my mind. Old Age FTL.   Hooper   talk    contribs    email   15:32, 31 March 2007 (PDT)


Ethan and Goodwin[]

  • Should they really be included in the Flight 815 section. Isn't that just plain wrong. I'm going to go ahead and change it, but let us talk Comedy240

Mikhail[]

Should we really list him as dead, at this point? I don't know how he could have survived the grenade's detonation, but I also don't know how he could have survived getting shot with a spear gun or pushed through the DHARMA fence either. Why don't we wait until the producers confirm it?

Henry Gale[]

Shouldn't he be added to this? Granted, he's only a survivor of his own crash, but he did survive for atleast a while and seems to have interacted with the Others? Faryn U 23:58, 18 December 2007 (PST)

48?[]

Currently it says 48 people survived from the fuselage ... is that 48 including Ethan? I've heard that 48 number since before they knew he was a n infiltrator. Just looking for some clarification --Jeff 12:52, 12 February 2008 (PST)

It does not include Ethan. Dharmatel4 13:04, 12 February 2008 (PST)
Then the article needs to be changed, 'cause it states that Ethan is included in the 48. Pierre80 14:01, 12 February 2008 (PST)
I'm not sure about that because while Ethan is mentioned at first, he isn't removed later on. I'm not even sure where the 48 number comes from. Its said in the pilot that "At least 48" survived, but thats not exactly 48 and Ethan may not have been around to even be counted at the point where its said. Dharmatel4 14:15, 12 February 2008 (PST)
Well - it's been mentioned in several episodes (most lately in Confirmed Dead, that there was 48 survivors from the fuselage section. Given than Troup dies only minutes after the crash, he is obviously not included. But the question is weather or not Ethan is... In this article, and throughout Lostpedia, he is considered so, but the writers actually have stated that he was NOT included - [1]... Pierre80


Aaron[]

Aaron should not be added into the fuselage survivors because that list only pertains to the 48 survivors, not people like Aaron who was not in the original 48 count. Comedy240 13:55, 21 February 2008 (PST)

With no objections in 5 days, I will make the change I suggested. Comedy240 13:59, 26 February 2008 (PST)

Original 815 fatalities not included in total?[]

The article states something to the effect that there have been 70 odd total fatalities on the Island. What about all the passengers who died in the crash? 324-(47 fuselage + 22 tail section + 1 pilot)=254, to be added to the total? Just wondering...

Cmdr Spock 12:17, 26 February 2008 (PST)

Suggestion[]

Shouldn't we add something like "Number of people killed by the Losties" and "Number of people killed by the Others"? I think it's very interesting that the "good guys" have actually killed more people, and kill their own more often.--Ainulindale 14:06, 14 March 2008 (PDT)

I think this is covered in the Crimes of the islanders article.--Jackdavinci 22:43, 14 March 2008 (PDT)

Locke/Jack Camps[]

Should perhaps show the splits into the Locke/Jack camps and then any deaths that have resulted post-split? Like how Karl and possibly Danielle have been killed now? CBenoit 06:59, 21 March 2008 (PDT)

Other Body Count[]

Aldo has not been included as dead. Although why he is dead has not been confirmed - Isabel has been included - why not Aldo?

Mercenaries[]

As discussed in the Freighter mercenaries page, I have split Keamy, Omar, and the rest from the Kahana list since they operate independently on the island. --Pedxing 06:53, 2 May 2008 (PDT)

Missing Survivor[]

When the survivors split up they broke into two groups. We know that 5 background survivors went with Team Locke (Doug, Jerome, Steve, Blonde Casualty, and one unnamed female extra). Should we count the unnamed female extra in the body count as "missing". We see her right before the attack but not during or afterword. I was just wondering if we should add her to the list. User:LostCloverfield42

That's correct, I changed it to reflect her missing, as well as to reflect that Steve is missing, not killed. --Jackdavinci 18:39, 10 May 2008 (PDT)
Thanks for doing that, I really appreciate it. It just bothered me that she wasn't being acknowledged. User:LostCloverfield42

A little clean up[]

I started a new look for this page so it will enclude tables and pictures of the characters. See here. If anybody has any ideas or comments for the new page, please adress to my talk page.I plan to upload the new look after this season's finale.--Orhan94 15:17, 26 May 2008 (PDT)

  • I'm going to be honest. The body count page is still in need of some serious clean-up. Even with the tables, we have Tailies in the Middle Section Body Count.... why? I understand that the groups merge, but put that in the Tailie characters descriptions. Duplicating people in a body count page throws everything off. Jin shouldn't be in the science expedition, for example. I think that having someone belong to more than one group just looks sloppy.Dr. McPhearson 05:38, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

3 unnamed survivors?[]

"...died in the freighter explosion" Where do we get that figure? I thought more than that were brought on the various Zodiac trips back and forth. (And did we see all the trips even?). --Jackdavinci 12:14, 30 May 2008 (PDT)

I thought there were four redshirts on the Zodiac, not three. Can anyone get a screenshot to confirm how many people came over on the first trip? Also, there were six or seven redshirts on the Zodiac with Daniel when the island moved. I think they should be counted as missing for the time being.--CurlyHairedGuy 16:23, 30 May 2008 (PDT)

There were three on the first trip. They can be see immediately after they leave the beach:

ASJRaft

The three redshirts

When they get to the freighter, [2], [3] you can clearly see that there are two female and one male unnamed survivors. When we next see Daniel he is returning from his first trip. I'm pretty sure he says that he'll take the second group on ten minutes. And he doesn't make the second trip before the island gets moved so there would only be the 3 unnamed survivors aboard the ship. That's where I got my number from. So I'm assuming that these three redshirts couldn't survive an explosion and died when the Kahana exploded. --LostCloverfield42 23:30, 31 May 2008 (PDT)

They're not main characters, so there's no way they could survive ;-)

You're right, there are three redshirts, not four. I guess I thought that the raft held six people in addition to the guy steering it, not six people including him. That means there are five currently at sea with Daniel. --CurlyHairedGuy 11:44, 2 June 2008 (PDT)

Update[]

Maybe change to something like this

48 48 Survivors after the crash
47
Mini-gary

Gary Troup

Gary Troup is sucked into an engine and dies. Following this, Jack Shephard makes a count of the survivors which totals 48 (though this includes Ethan Rom, an Other). ("Pilot, Part 1")
46
Mars

Edward Mars

Edward Mars is euthanized by Jack. ("Tabula Rasa")
45
Mini-joanna

Joanna Miller

Joanna Miller drowns. ("White Rabbit")
44
Mini-scott


Scott Jackson

Scott Jackson killed. ("Homecoming")

--Ryan76el 12:56, 4 June 2008 (PDT)

New Look?[]

Okay, I'm sure whoever changed the look of the table worked really hard on it but I just find it WAY to confusing. I liked it better when it saw simply a list of people who were killed or went missing. I also DO NOT like adding non survivors into the survivors body count (Like Juliet and Desmond). I just find it way to confusing to understand and would like it changed back to the way it was originaly. --LostCloverfield42 17:26, 6 June 2008 (PDT)

  • Personally, I like the new look, it allows us to know exactly what is/was the population of a given group at any moment of the show's timeline, which is interesting. Even if the body count is reverted to what it was originally, I think this is an interesting way to present the information ... maybe it could be reworked on another page ? (Something like Camp, for the Losties part of it anyways ?) --LeoChris 18:26, 6 June 2008 (PDT)
    • I can understand why you would want to keep the table format (it is interesting). But i think that when you throw in the Desmond joins survivors, Juliet leaves others, joins survivors, it just gets to confusing. I think its just easier to understand when is shows who has died or left the island.--LostCloverfield42 18:37, 6 June 2008 (PDT)
      • But if we count Juliet as leaving the Others (minus 1), but not as her joining the survivors she is left not counted as a person on Island so we would actually list one character less. Same goes for Locke and Ben. Plus the previous list didn't count Aaron as an island inhabitant.--Orhan94 12:51, 8 June 2008 (PDT)

Other count blooper[]

I think there's a mistake with the Other's body count. Seven Others were killed in the dynamite explosions in "Through the Looking Glass." This includes Diane, Ivan, Matthew, Luke, and three unnamed Others. But there are four unnamed victims listed. --CurlyHairedGuy 20:17, 8 June 2008 (PDT)

Also, let me say that I like the new format. It helps with keeping track of how many people are present in a group at a certain time. That said, I'm wondering if we should rework the Tailies' list. Have it end with Ana Lucia, Libby, Eko, and Bernard joining the midsection group, and add them to the midsection group's count. After all, there really isn't any Tailies' group after the two groups merge together. Also, we should add something about Claire because of her uncertain status. A lot of us are wondering if she's really still alive. --CurlyHairedGuy 20:31, 8 June 2008 (PDT)

Corrected mistake[]

I'm removing a few people from the Others' body count. There should only be three unknown Others who were killed by dynamite explosions in ("Through the Looking Glass, Part 1"), not five. The mistake is probably my fault. I said that "seven Others were killed in the dynamite explosions," but actually Ben just told Jack that seven people were killed in the raid. This figure included the two guys who Jin shot (Matthew and Luke), with the remaining five being dynamite victims. We know for sure that Diane was blown up, and presumably Ivan was too (Tom and Ryan list him as one of the dead) leaving three unnamed Others to fill the remaining slots. --CurlyHairedGuy 20:48, 9 June 2008 (PDT)


kidnapped tailies[]

I'm curious as to why the man in the green shirt and the man in the stripped yellow shirt are apart of the unamed tailies who were kidnapped. I mean yeah they prob were abducted, but since we are all about evidence and facts, how can we be so sure they were of the 9 taken on day 12 and not sure about the other survivor extras?--Mistertrouble189 16:12, 17 June 2008 (PDT)

New Traffic light system[]

I think we should have the New Traffic light system on this page. --Ryan76el 07:10, 18 June 2008 (PDT)


Dead Others[]

To whoever regularly updates this article, maybe it's possible to get a picture of the Others who were killed by Eko/Ana Lucia the nights they tried to kidnapp the tailie passengers.--Mistertrouble189 09:37, 18 June 2008 (PDT)

This is a body count[]

Why are people joining the camp, and leaving the camp listed on this page ? This is a body count page and they should be deleted from this page. --Ryan76el 11:10, 18 June 2008 (PDT)

  • The goal of the page is to provide information as to how many people there are left in any said faction. Therefore, somebody leaving a faction (or joining another) alters the population of said faction. These important changes should, in my opinion, be included somewhere on Lostpedia, and this seems like the perfect page. --LeoChris 13:42, 18 June 2008 (PDT)
I think it's a good table, however it doesn't belong on this page, as this page is a body count not a page counting how many people are at the camp. Maybe it should be added to the camp page. --Ryan76el 13:47, 18 June 2008 (PDT)
  • It's because the old Body count page had a big disadvantige, eg. Juliet left the Other in One of Us, which is listed under the Others count. But her arriving at the Survivors camp wasn't there so it seems like Juliet is not an Island inhabitant. Similar, Desmond, Ben, Rousseau, Alex, Karl, Ana Lucia, Libby, Eko, Frank and more died or left Island as part of a dofferent group then their orriginal. Plus having this list (of who left which group and who joined which group) does no harm to Lostpedia it's actually quite a helpful info which is important to the overall Lost story.--Orhan94 15:06, 18 June 2008 (PDT)
I know it's helpful but it doesn't belong on this page. --Ryan76el 08:30, 19 June 2008 (PDT)


Legend[]

The key doesn't match the actual thing so I'm going to edit the key to make it match the body count. Unless someone wants to change the table rather than the key go ahead haha.--Mistertrouble189 15:08, 18 June 2008 (PDT)

Rename?[]

Perhaps we should rename this page to Population counts, which would be a more accurate description than "Body count." A proper body count (ie, just a list of people who have died) can be found on the Life and death page, but I think the total population count we have here is more useful, so I say keep this page the way it is and change the name to better represent what is here. --CurlyHairedGuy 09:54, 19 June 2008 (PDT)

I think a new page should be created and called Popualtion Count and add the table from this page too it. --Ryan76el 09:58, 19 June 2008 (PDT)

Major Changes?[]

This is a great page with some flaws. First, as mentioned by many, it needs a new name. "Faction populations", perhaps? "Body count" is a misnomer. Second, who came up with the numbers for the original number of Others and Dharma people? Also, why is a background character listed as missing from Locke's camp? It seems more reasonable to assume that she went back to the beach unless we have information otherwise.FlyingArrow 13:24, 4 July 2008 (PDT)

  • While I agree with you one the Others and Dharma original count and the name, the reason the woman from Locke's group is included in the count is because she is disapperared under strange circumstances, she was never shown after the attack (but was shown immediately before) and did not travel back wiht Sawyer, Miles, and Claire. Therefore, we do not know what happened to her. --LostCloverfield42 20:51, 4 July 2008 (PDT)
  • I don't think she should be listed. It's not known that she's missing. There are 12 unnamed background characters that are unaccounted for. She is one of them. Most of them are at the beach (probably), but that's not known either. We might as well list all of them as Unknown. Where is Sullivan? We haven't seen him since the first season. Is he Unknown as well? Was she the only other background character depicted in Locke's camp that wasn't shot?
  • Only 4 background extras were in Team Locke which were Doug, Jerome, Blonde Casualty and her. The others were shot however she went missing and is most likely to have died. Sullivan and others shouldn't be listed as unknown because they weren't seen in Locke's group and Jack's group was very large. --Ryan76el 13:35, 5 July 2008 (PDT)
  • Are we sure there were no other extras that weren't shown on camera? --FlyingArrow 15:44, 5 July 2008 (PDT)
  • We already know Steve went with Locke and made it back to the beach without tagging along with Miles and Sawyer. --FlyingArrow 15:44, 5 July 2008 (PDT)
  • On another note, something's missing. There are 19 of the Original 48 middle section survivors on the island. Claire and Locke are not with the faction anymore, and the body count also lists the fourth bg character as missing. That means 16 of the Original 48 are still with the faction, plus Bernard, Juliete, Miles, and Charlotte. That's 20. Add in the five on the Zodiac and that's 25 instead of 26. What's missing?--FlyingArrow 14:12, 5 July 2008 (PDT)
  • Vincent ? --LeoChris 14:20, 5 July 2008 (PDT)
  • No - Vincent isn't counted on either page.--FlyingArrow 15:01, 5 July 2008 (PDT)
  • Got it - Faraday is also on the Zodiac. I forgot about him. That makes 26, counting the Zodiac.--FlyingArrow 16:25, 6 July 2008 (PDT)


typo edit[]

There is no page for a "dr. Christian Shepherd" , I went ahead to fix it to "Christian Shepherd", but it was undone...and is still a red link.--Mistertrouble189 05:39, 7 July 2008 (PDT)

  • Shephard was misspelled. I went ahead and fixed it and the link now works. Whether or not we should keep all those formal names in another discussion. --LeoChris 07:50, 7 July 2008 (PDT)
  • Not sure I agree with it, but the style guide under 'Help' says to use the formal names.--FlyingArrow 18:01, 7 July 2008 (PDT)

Why the change?[]

Wow, I haven't been here in 3-4 months, and I must say the new change to this page is horrible. Completely hard to understand and arbitrarily bright colored that it hurts the eyes. Why the change(s)? CBenoit 07:23, 24 October 2008 (PDT)

Update[]

The Middle Section Survivors should be updated as Frogurt and at least two other survivors were killed via flaming arrows.

1/22/09 11:39 AM

  • I counted three bodies in the shot at the end of the scene. Neil fell on the beach, so those three bodies are probably all nameless redshirts. Andrew1976 22:53, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
  • I think that someone is over counting the actual amount of dead survivors from the arrow attack. I'm pretty sure that some of the bodies counted are from people previously hit by arrows and thus already counted, so the number of dead redshirts (7, ignoring Neil) might need to be double checked. Griff4815 21:18, 23 Jan. 09 (AST)
  • I agree. I watched that scene again, and I think including Neil there were only five castaways killed. Three on screen (including Neil), and two corpses seen in the final WS. I'd change it myself, but I can't seem to edit this table...
  • Check the talk page for The Lie - there's a detailed description of how the dead were counted. --Jackdavinci 05:49, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
    • Great work ! Integrated (User / Talk) 01:52, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Pierre Chang[]

Why is Chang listed as Died in the purge, rather than gone missing after the purge? His chance of living or dying is just the same as Annie, Olivia etc right? Integrated (User / Talk) 01:52, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

  • I think that his death was confirmed by the producers or something. I could be wrong though.--Mistertrouble189 02:14, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
    • Watch the Comic-Con video from this year . It'll tell you. Crash815 02:19, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Jughead[]

Last night's episode gave us a populatio--LOST-The Cartographer 03:01, 30 January 2009 (UTC)n count of 20 for the survivors. (Before the fire arrow attack.) Someone has added the missing six to the list, and I agree that they were most likely part of "Team Locke" and died off-camera. There might have been another trip to the freighter, but I don't think Daniel had time for that. The only other possibility I can think of is that some survivors aren't jumping through time for some reason. Andrew1976 12:58, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I think what they meant was a generalization of how many people were there. I think is should be reverted back to show that there are 16 survivors left, not 10. -- LostCloverfield42  Talk  13:36, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
I agree. And I'm pretty sure Locke didn't bring that many people in the barracks. You can look in the wide shots for The Beginning of the End- there's only like three or four redshirts with him. I think Ellie's count of 20 was a generalization, in which case there should be 16 total survivors left.
I also agree. And in the Lie you can see more than just 5 redshirts running who weren't hit by arrows. I still believe that the number of people who died in The Lie is off.
People seem to be confused about what the 20 means - it refers to all the people on the beach during the flaming arrow attack, not the remaining middle section survivors (how would Ellie know which of them were from the original beach camp!?). 20 people at the beach minus Rose, Bernard, Juliet, Sawyer, Daniel, Charlotte, and Miles (7) equals 13 redshirts before the flaming arrow attack. 7 distinct flaming arrow deaths were noted on the body counts page (with pics), as well as two mine explosion deaths this episodes, leaving only (13-7-2) 4 redshirts as the maximum still alive. Besides the time travelling significant seven and the fantastic four (and vincent), we have the captured Tailies whose time travel status is unknown, and the oceanic six along with Desmond and Frank who are off island. In any case, there definitely aren't *six* redshirts still out there as the page currently suggests! --Jackdavinci 02:49, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
I changed it. There are, if you add the science team, Bernard (Cus he's considered a tailie and not one of the 48 middle sectioners), and Juliet you get a total of 27 people on the beach including the those middle sectioners still live or on the island. You subtract the at least 5 dead from the beach attack, and the two from the creek booby trap, and you have 20 people. Now the number of actual redshirts left: If you subtract those who weren't the original 48 Middle sectioners, and those ho have died since S1, you have 15. Then you take out Rose, and Sawyer and the final tally of redshirts should be 13 redshirts from the middle section left. --LOST-The Cartographer 03:01, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
The Cartographer is correct.
If we change the amount of flame kills to 5 as you suggest (although aren't there 7?), this means 20 beach people (7 knowns and 13 middle section redshirts) minus 5 flame deaths and 2 explosions leading to 6 middle section redshirts still alive. I'm not sure how you are getting 13 unless you are referring to something other than middle section redshirts. And where is this number 27 coming from? I get that you are adding people to 20 for some reason, but what is 27 referring to? There 27 of what label of people? Regardless of all that, I see that the page itself has 6 missing redshirts, which is consistent with 5 flaming arrow deaths. But 7 are still listed. There should either be 7 flame deaths and 4 missing redshirts or 5 flame deaths and 6 redshirts. --Jackdavinci 03:37, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Let me just say that whatever number of survivng redshirts there may be through our calculations may not actually match to the number on the show as the producers are most likely not keeping count of this. There still could be a bunch of redshirts left even though it may not match the "remaing 4" or whatever.--Mistertrouble189 03:41, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
    • I corrected some of the things that I wasn't clear on, but Jack, how do you know that Ellie wasn't giving a rounded number? Should we take Jack's word for it when he told Locke that he took half of their people to the Barrack only to get most of them killed? We know good and well he took nowhere near near half (Discounting Ben, Karl, Alex and Danielle)! I just gave you a step by step explanation to the number of people that were on the beach at the beginning of the premiere, why how is my numbering wrong? Other than the info your going on which is Ellie's number I don't see how I'm wrong. I guess we'll see in the coming episodes. --LOST-The Cartographer 05:15, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
      • I'm not sure that your numbering is wrong, if you end up with six redshirts still alive. I just don't understand what the number 27 is referring to. In any case I just think that if there are five flame deaths, then there should be 6 redshirts left, or if there are 7 flame deaths there should be 4 missing - or however many flame deaths there are, the number of missing redshirts should equal 11 minus the number of flame deaths -assuming the 20 figure is exact. As far as whether 20 is rounded off, that's certainly a possibility. I'm just thinking that the fact that the Others were so precise about the number of soldiers (18) combined with the statement not using phrases like "about 20" makes it more likely that this is an exact figure. Are you saying that there's counter indication that 20 *must* be wrong? Let's put it this way, assuming 20 is correct, and that is the only consideration, do you agree that right before the flame attack would be 7 known people and 13 redshirts on the beach? If we agree on that then the confusion isn't about math but whether or not the 20 figure is right. Now assuming 20 is wrong, right before the beach attack, how many knowns and redshirts do you think should be on the beach based on the tally from previous episodes? --Jackdavinci 10:01, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
        • This is the way I think we should look at it: yes, it's likely that the Others were being exact when they said 20 (they are an exact group of people), but they may have meant 20 after we killed 7 with our arrows, which would be consistent with The Cartographer's 27 number. Now, I think we should definitely remove those extra Team Locke casualties for sure. Just because some chick says there was 20 of them on the beach doesn't mean Locke magically took an additional 7 people with him to the Barracks, when we all know he didn't. You can literally SEE all the people he took with him in "The Beginning of the End." So trying to rigidly explain the 20 number by arbitrarily removing phantom Team Locke members is silly. I say it's best to just tally the deaths we see or are told about, and in that case there should be 17 survivors left, not 10. Hopefully future episodes will clarify all this.
  • Jack, for the last time 27 is the Science team, Bernard Juliet Sawyer, Rose, and the remaining 20 redshirts that survived everything up to the arrow attack. I will list all of the dead original 48 middle sectioners or characters not with the group on the beach to further clarify (In chronological order):

The dead Ed Mars, Joanna, Scott, Boone, Arzt, Shannon, Nikki, Paulo, Charlie, Doug, Jerome, Blonde casualty, older women casualty (Though we didn't see her on screen she more than likely is), two women, and one guy that made it to the freighter, Michael.

MIA or not with the group Locke, Claire, Jin, Jack, Sayid, Kate, Hurley, Sun, Walt.

Total group of middle sectioners on the beach after the island moved=22+5 (Science team, Juliet, and Bernard)=27-5 (Arrow attack)=22-2(Claymores)=20-5(non middle section)=15-2(Sawyer, and Rose)=13 I'm not going to explain again. Take my calculations or leave it. --LOST-The Cartographer 17:49, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

OK settle down lol. I think I see the problem - I was thinking that your 20 + 7 =27 was using Ellie's "20" but you were actually using the original 20 tally from previous episodes. --Jackdavinci 20:19, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
Spot on. The 27 is the number of people (Redshirts, stars etc.) on the beach before the arrow attack. --LOST-The Cartographer 21:32, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
But after the Oceanic Six, Des and Frank left, there supposed to be 26 people left according to this page's count, not 27. QuiGonJinnBe mindful of the Living Force... 21:48, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
Do I really have to explain this gain? Des is not one of the 48 survivors of Oceanic flight 815 so therefore he is not taken off the 48. Neither was Frank a on 815 nor had he ever been to the beach camp. Lastly did you not see that I subtracted the O6. ? There 27 people on the beach right after the Island moved, which includes Middle section redshirts, Sawyer, Rose, Juliet, Bernard, and Miles, Dan, and Charlotte (The Science team). --LOST-The Cartographer 21:52, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
I think I found your mistake. You forgot to substract Gary Troup. QuiGonJinnBe mindful of the Living Force... 22:09, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
There is absolutely no reason to assume Ellie took the time to count and literally found there were 20 people on the beach. ShadowUltra 00:20, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
There's *several* very good reasons actually, some of which were stated above. But there's also one in-show reason and one-out-of show reason that counter indicates it. it cannot be definitively resolved at this point, so we'll carry on as usual until we get confirmation one way or the other in a future episode. --Jackdavinci 05:40, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

QuiGon, Gary Troup was not considered one of the 48! He was a redshirt killed in the middle of the post-crash hysteria. The tally was made when the survivors were able to regroup. There wasn't somebody on the beach in the chaos counting all the survivors running around screaming, an/or lying on the ground dying! That is asinine. You are trying to find an error that isn't there so please just give it up. --LOST-The Cartographer 16:31, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

  • The count of 48 also included Ethan. Did someone mention that? Crash815 16:52, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
    • That's what I was trying to tell. It is even stated in the head of the article. "The initial count was 48 survivors from the middle section (counting Gary Troup but not counting Ethan Rom) So if we assume that what Ellie said was just a generalization, there should be 26 people on the beach by the time of the attack. Then, we have another problem regarding Steve and that chinese guy on the raft. They were seen in the season 4 finale, but did not return to the beach in season 5. I say we consider them MIA just as we did with the woman casualty from Locke's group. That leaves 24 people.

24-10(8 men killed in the flaming arrow attack (Neil+7 redshirts), and 2 killed by a claymore mine)=14

14-5(Juliett, Miles, Dan, Charlotte and Bernard) leaves us 9 middle section survivors. Discounting Sawyer and Rose(who is probably alive) we have 7 redshirts left. Plus, we have Locke and 13 kidnapped tailies, who are with the Others, and Claire who is missing. QuiGonJinnBe mindful of the Living Force... 18:30, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry, you are right. I forgot about Ethan. --LOST-The Cartographer 19:31, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

5x02-survivorsFAA

  • I got this screenshot from lostmedia.com (click to enlarge). Ellie's number was probably a generalization of the number of survivors. In this screenshot I can count 19 people (one guy is practically all black do he's hard to see, he's to the left behind the man in blue t-shirt), but in the episode I saw at least 2 more people running to the left during this shot (not visible in the screenshot) so that would make the number of people on the beach 21, but that's only what we see in the screenshot, there could be other people not shown in the screenshot. So. The number is probably a rounded numbner and not exact.--Mistertrouble189 22:21, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Should a new section be added?[]

Since there have been many discrepancies in the number of people remaining from the beach camp would it not be easier to create a new section or new page which only includes the deaths (or reason for leaving) of the original middle section beach campers?

This will help clarify how many people remain part of the beach camp faction. (Weaver55 23:59, 31 January 2009 (UTC))

  • I have another suggestion. Maybe we should keep the number of original survivors in parathesis. It will save us from creating another redundant page. It will be something like that:
Picture Name Died in/Left in/Joined in Cause of death/Cause of leaving/Cause of joining Remaining islanders (survivors)
Scott-Mini
Scott Jackson "Homecoming" Killed by an other, probably by Ethan Rom. 44
Mini-aaron
Aaron Littleton "Do No Harm" Claire Littleton gave birth to him on island. 45 (44)
BooneS1
Boone Carlyle "Do No Harm" Died of injuries acquired by the Beechcraft's crash. 44 (43)

What do you think? QuiGonJinnBe mindful of the Living Force... 19:36, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

  • Nice, I agree QuiGonJinn's idea. It will surely make it easy for the users that think that this page is complex to follow. --Orhan94 14:22, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
  • I agree this is a pretty good solution. What if a whole column was added for the "remaining middle section survivors"? Weaver55

Where's Rose?[]

I notice Bernard is on this page, but his wife Rose appears to be missing from the count and the list. Is there a reason she's not on the list. --  SacValleyDweller    talk    contribs   18:48, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

  • This page only lists people when they join or leave the group. The remaining people are all included in the number in the rightmost column. Rose is one of the original 11 surviviors left. As for her MIA staus, I don't know. On the one hand, she is missing, indeed, but on the other hand, so are 9 other people. I think it is too early to list them all as MIA, let's wait until several more episodes air. QuiGonJinnBe mindful of the Living Force... 09:38, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Rose and Bernard MIA[]

Rose and Bernard are MIA since the Flaming arrow atack. --  SacValleyDweller    talk    contribs   18:49, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

50 others?[]

I really hope this is not an stupid question, but where did we get the number 50 for the original amount of the Others? Maokun 10:52, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

It is an estimation from Sayid's observation of the abandoned barraks. "It is like fifty people just disappeared."

If that's so, then I think that number is useless. Not only it is a very generalizing estimation from a quick glance at the number of houses (if I remember correctly there were houses that were inhabited), but it also ignores all the Others that were located in other places of the Island and that were added to the body count nevertheless, like Mikhail. Also, we never saw there Richard Alpert. My guess is that the Barracks were used mostly for the foreign members of the Others (the ones "recruited" from the outside world) and the ones kidnapped from other groups. Richard Alpert and his band of followers seem to be nomadic or they may inhabit in unexplored parts of the Island like the Temple.

Didn't Jack estimate the number of Others after his capture, or am I misremembering? Andrew1976 03:10, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

This should be changed. Sayid was just pulling the number out of his head. Ummagumma108 20:54, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Locke?[]

Can we say that Locke is really with the Others right now? He is working with James to find the Orchid and has no idea how to be with the Others. If anything e is on both the Losties and the Others' side. But if you had to say one at the moment, the Losties would be a more reasonable choice.

Steve Jenkins missing??[]

I dont think Steve should be listed as missing because we didn't see his return from the zodiac raft. The only people we really saw were Daniel and Neil come back but I'm guessing that Steve and all the other redshirts would have came back and if something happened to them we would know.--Czygan84 00:27, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

  • Agreed. Steve should be considered missing NOW, because we haven't seen him since the arrow attack, but he shouldn't be considered missing because TPTB didn't keep track of which extras were on the raft at the end of Season 4. They're not going to go crazy making sure that they put the same extras on the raft at the end of season 4 and the beginning of season 5. --Crash815 00:36, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
    • Steve's situation reminds me of the woman from Locke's group. She was seen at the beginning of the episode, but we haven't seen her later, so someone placed her as MIA. And everyone here seem to go along with it. So, tell me, why is Steve different? We saw him leaving in season 4, but didn't see him coming back in season 5. I think these cases are pretty similar and we should treat them in the same way. QuiGonJinnBe mindful of the Living Force... 20:47, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
  • I kinda agree with QuiGonJinn. But whatever it is, Steve's still missing. I just made up to myself that the Zodiac found a delirious Neil swimming out in the ocean, trying to get to the freighter and the raft picked him up. However when the boat blew up, shock waves in the water could have knocked out Jenkins and the other extra who didn't show up in S5 and they both drowned lol.--Mistertrouble189 20:52, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
    • Close to my version. But I'd like to think that they jumped from the raft themselves, scared by the explosion of the freighter, and were eaten by a shark :p QuiGonJinnBe mindful of the Living Force... 21:23, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Some updates needed[]

  • Number 1 - add Tony, Eric and whatever DI seen in 5x01
  • Number 2 - make a body count for the science expedition?

--Mistertrouble189 03:50, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Original 48 count Jack gave to the pilot[]

Why is Gary Troup considered one of the 48 survivors here? When the pilot asks how many people survived, Jack said 48. Troup obviously died immediately after the crash and BEFORE jack, Kate, and Charlie went to the cockpit. It would be pretty obvious Jack made the head count after everything calmed down (after stuff stopped exploding ex. the wing, the engine) troup died during this and possibly numerous other people, I know that the producers didnt make that clear but they had to edit some stuff out to fit the "HOUR SLOT" on cable.

Next evidence in Episode 103 White Rabbit AND House of Rising Sun, Jack said there were 46 people. the original 48 minus both Joanna and the Marshal, who both died in the previous episodes. Ethan should not be included in the headcount as seen in season 3 that it would have taken him at least an hour and a half to get there which im sure Jack already made the count (wouldnt making the headcount the first thing Jack do?)

And what is this about missing Steve and the Unnamed girl before the raid at the barracks? this is how i thinnk of it: In Locke's group there John Locke, Sawyer, Hurley, Claire, Ben, Rousseau, Karl and FOUR unnamed Redshirts (not including Steve) How do I know this? Not only can you see them in both 401 and 402 but at the barracks in the raid, three were clearly dead and the fourth is Missing? what the hell? this person is obviously dead, like i said the producers didnt make it clear but they had to edit some stuff out! Do you honestly think she didnt go with Sawyer back to beach and said "eh ill just go back alone" NO she got killed during the raid, sorry the producers didnt make it clear. Which goes back to Steve. Steve stayed with Jack. Yeah I saw the Podcast, he said he went with Locke. NO, its the same deal with the 4th missing person. you think he just decided to go back to the beach alone in the crazy jungle? Then magically appears back on the zodiac? He stayed with jack. In 501 he doesnt show up on the zodiac back on the beach, so you all report him missing? This character is useless, hes a redshirt meaning the producers dont keep track of the redshirts, hence wheres sullivan? in season 1 do you honestly think they have 48 people on that beach? No they just put 20 random people on the beach to give the illusion of 48 people.

think of it this way: the producers are thinking more about money (hour slot, editing, fewer redshirts) than they do about the story (ex. "Wheres the guy who plays Steve, Damn it, we cant shoot the scene, i guess we'll start tomorrow) Steve obviously didnt wanna fly all the way to Hawaii for his 5 seconds of fame for season 5, but you know hes there, so just like you did with Sullivan, just assume hes there! hes not that big of a character for the director to go nuts abous.

if no one makes the changes, i will, i have plenty of evidence to back me up. Remember the producers think more money less story.

I also want to add another thing about the arrow attack. Ellie said there 20 people on the beach. we dont know if shes referring to before or after the attack, But if you start from episode 1 and work your way through the list (like you all have been doing) you should have your count right there. 48 survivors, 4 from tallie, Desmond, Ben, Rousseau, ALex etc. just keep track of the "Survivors Group" You Know? whether its 20 or 22 you should have an exact count. Because "20" isnt that accurate the way she says it. I hope someone understnads wat im trying to say?

I also dont think Aaron Littleton should be on the Survivor's faction. In 202 Adrift, Desmond asks John how many are you, he says 43. Assuming that wee all agree that troup is the original 48,(i have stated evidence above) this means that five people died between here and the end of the pilot. 1. marshal 2. joanna 3. Scott 4. Boone and 5. Arzt. 48-5= 43. Not counting Aaron, as far as John Locke is concerned, Aaron is not considered an actual body count (the name of this article) and should be viewed (as far as the body count goes) equal to the dog, Vincent, cruel i know but come on. Again i have plenty of evidence to back me up and im eager to see how you guys will see my statements. I am very eager to change it but i want your confirmation —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shortguy457 (talkcontribs) .

  • First off, I agree that Gary Troup is probably is not apart of the original 48. What you said above is a good point, plus I don't think anyone was running around fracntically taking a head count as people were dying/waking up (from crash). Next, I'm not sure about Ethan. So no opinion there. Next, about Locke's group, we see that it consists of: John Locke, Danielle, Alexandra, Karl, Miles, Ben, Claire Littleton, Aaron Littleton, Sawyer; redshirts Jerome, Doug, Blonde Casualty and the "Red-haired Casualty". Steve Jenkins was not apart of the group as he was not seen among them and was seen at the beach, the producers were probably joking along or just blabbing about random stuff about good ol' Steve. Of the group; Locke, Sawyer, Miles, Aaron and Ben are the only who survive/accounted for. Claire survives but disappears off during the night to go chill with daddy. The redshirts (Doug, Jerome, Blonde and the Red-head) are all killed even though the last redshirt was not killed on screen. She has not appeared as a background survivor for the rest of S4 or S5 so she's pretty much dead. They just didn't have time to show it on screen or whatever. (Or having one by one a redshirt come out the house and get shot like Doug, Jerome and Blonde- that was cheesy kind of). Red-haired Casualty is dead. About Steve's sudden disappearance from the raft. Well, we don't see him returning to the beach and we didn't see Neil on the raft to begin with. Just some mess-ups with getting the actors or whatever, o well. Personally, Steve is unknown to me (hey, he could have fallen off the raft! hah). Another thing, about Ellie's comment on how many people were at the beach, it's just a generalization, look at the explanation I wrote above. Deal with it. Lastly, Aaron should be included in the faction, he survived the plane crash in his mother's womb and was born on the Island. Alrighty I'm done.--Mistertrouble189 17:29, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
  • I disagree about Gary Troup and Aaron. I think Jack counted losties after Ethan came to them. I'm not sure that thought of counting people was Jack's first one after everything calmed down, so it isn't clear and shouldn't be changed. And it's OK with Aaron, he's in group of middle section survivors, he should be counted either. And when Locke said about 43 survivors I think he mentionted 48 original people (with Ethan) - 5 dead losties - Ethan + Aaron = 43, so it's OK, too. --Revan fist 01:02, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Same person[]

Malextra2-4x10 TheLieDeadMan5


Could background extra, Steve Tanizaki be this dead body. They both have the same clothes and hair, and I saw Steve Tanizaki running through the jungle in the fire arrow attack. Steve Tanizaki is also a stuntman. --Ryan76el 21:18, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

  • I thought this guy wasn't on the show anymore--we did not see him return on the Zodiac (along with Dustin Watchman who plays Steve Jenkins). Do you have another screenshot to show this stuntman in the episode? So far it seems that the dead bodies are just stuntmen as two of the minis made by Castaway (who are clear and good) show that those two are survivors never before seen. Oy when are we gonna see Rose and crew again?--Mistertrouble189 22:59, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Yer I thought I didn't see him but i dsicovered this screencap. I think it could be likely it's him. --Ryan76el 23:14, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Extra-5x02

  • Could be. But yes the man running does look like the body.--Mistertrouble189 23:29, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Maybe this mini image could be added then. I think it's pretty likely it's him as he's a stuntman and he's seen wearing the same clothes and same hair style. --Ryan76el 15:48, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Steve-mini

  • Well it's not Craig due to clothing, it's not extra Rueban Games since the casualty pic does not have facial hair, I believe it's not extra Steve Tanizaki since 1. he did not appear on the raft when it arrived (only Daniel, "Unknown #1", "Lisa" and Neil came back with 2 missing), 2. the extra Steve has short hair in the Season 4 finale, but maybe he grew it and did not cut it but I doubt that. SO, as much as we want to be able to match the background survivors with the casualties we've seen in the BYL and Lie episodes, I think they're all just stuntmen. Even the two bomb casualties are stuntmen. Oh well.--Mistertrouble189 22:29, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Yeah I'm pretty sure that's Steve Tanizaki. He probably wasn't aviable the day they shot the zodiac raft stuff. As for the body, I'm not completely sure. I'm leaning towards no, but until we see he for sure, we'll not know. Darlton unfortunatly said in a Podcast that most of the redshirts were killed in the attack so we may never know who actually died. -- LostCloverfield42  Talk  14:30, 18 March 2009 (UTC)


Child Charlotte & Dharma members[]

Should we count that redhead child as Charlotte? Anyway, the list of Dharma People should be longer, since we have seen lots of them in the last episodes since Sawyer joined them... --metalpotato@hotmail.com 04:46, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Midsection Count Post-DHARMA[]

I think the Midsection survivors should have a body count after they join the DHARMA Initiative subtracting Faraday and adding Jack, Kate, and Hurley. Ummagumma108 02:01, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

  • I make one request. I'm so tired of there being five different Hurley's appearing across the body count page. Can we make a seperate group for Survivors-turned-DHARMA? And could we please make note that it will be one of the only categories that we allow repeats in? Dr. McPhearson 05:55, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Strong Editing In Order[]

I am one of several who, upon reviewing this page, believe that some heavy eidting is in order. I'm already working on it, creating certain "repeat categories" like the Oceanic Six, etc. I thiknk that after this work is done, the page will be much more accessible.Dr. McPhearson 06:10, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

  • I've cleaned up the Middle Section Survivor table. I don't understand why so many people included Faraday, Desmond and such. I understand that their alliances may be as such, but this isn't "Team Tables." A body count is just that; it records who out of the original groups is still standing. Look at the Middle Section Survivors section to see what I mean. I will start editing more later. Dr. McPhearson 07:04, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  • I strongly disagree with the changes done on this page. What was interesting about it was that it allowed one to see exactly how many persons were at one of the camps (middle section's, tail section's, others' etc) at a given point in time in the storyline. Hence the repeats. If someone were to wonder how many people are living at the middle section's camp in say ... 2x15, this would be the page they'd need to check. For questions like how many persons from a given group are still alive, we have List of Oceanic Flight 815 survivors, List of Others, List of Ajira Flight 316 survivors and List of Kahana crew --LeoChris 18:15, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
    • I agree with Phearson. It's a body count. Maybe a new page should be made witht he current tables though. --Ryan76el 18:42, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
      • I'm sorry you are not happy with the modifications to the page, LeoChris. However, as Ryan reiterated, this is a BODY COUNT, which means that it should display who is alive and not, nothing more. The problem with the past set-up of the page was that it was overly confusing; for instance, take the case of Charlotte: the Kahana crew table showed her alive, and then the Others table showed her joining, then detaching onto the Middle Section crew, and only the Middle Section table showed her as dead. If you want a page that tells you what survivors have joined with what factions, I want to take this opportunity to propose an "Alliances" page, one that shows you the exact joining/removing of every character and why. But as for a body count, I think we need to keep it as simple as possible. Note, however, that the Tailies that were kidnapped by the Others will exist on both the "Tail Section" and the "Known Others" tables. Dr. McPhearson 19:02, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  • May I ask you: why did you change amount of unnamed losties missing after flaming arrows attack from 9 to 11? After all counts of dead, left and missing losties I suggest that it can't be more than 9. What made you think that it was exactly 11? --Revan fist 00:28, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
    • I'm glad someone noticed that. I actually did it because, after counting up the Middle Section deaths, subtracting the dead from the 48, the main characters and 9 unnamed redshirts would have left 2 survivors unaccounted for. So I thought maybe someone miscounted, and I tried to correct the error. Now that you asked though, I'll go back and recount the Middle Section survivors, just to be certain. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Dr. McPhearson 04:19, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
      • THANK YOU! I actually just recounted, and it seems that the 11 unnamed is actually one too many. I'll change it to 10 unnamed. Thanks, Revan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dr. McPhearson (talkcontribs) 2009-04-02T23:32:56.

Mistakes in counting[]

Someone gave this article it's previous body count by removing Juliet, Desmond, Faraday and others from the Fuselage body count. This way it looks like the Island's boy count doesn't include Juliet anymore as she is counted as leaving the Others (-1), but as being part of the Losties and later DHARMA (NO +1), this applies for Desmond, the Freighter Four, the Oceanic Six's returning to the Island. This article should either only list people that died and not move a person from one category to another, or should list people that left/joined group also, which is the right thing to do, otherwise Ben should be listed as a DHARMA and be featured on the Other's count, Juliet solely as an Other, Michael solely as a Kahana crew member etc.--Orhan94 14:40, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

  • I definitely see where you're coming from. However, while the body count shows Juliet colored as someone who has left her group, she should not in any way, shape, or form be listed anywhere else. Michael, meanwhile, should remain on the fuselage list. Please take note of the column that explains what the characters' current standings are; its a good way to talk about what happened to them alliance-wise without having them show up on five different lists. I'll do this: I'll fix it so that all the Tailies who were kidnapped and joined the Others will be taken off the Others list, but instead be given a specific "Otherized" color, so that they can still be displayed as alive while not confusing people with multiple appearances on seperate lists. In short, I want to avoid the same person showing up on three different lists if at all possible. Dr. McPhearson 05:42, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
  • ethan was shot by a handgun by charlie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Darkpower25 (talkcontribs) 2009-04-18T11:10:20.
    • I have created a table of sorts that explans exactaly how many background survivors are left. Considering there are a few disputes here, there are three columns, all of them are possibilities. -- LostCloverfield42  Talk  03:13, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Updating to season finale[]

I've been updating, but we have a mess with the DHARMA and Others templates:

-The "initial" numers are totally arbitrarious.

  • For groups where we don't have a reliable count (Dharma, Flight 316, possibly the Others) we should remove the "remaining members" number. For groups like the Losties or Rousseau's Science Team, where we know how many there were, the count is appropriate. Andrew1976 11:54, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Of course I meant the DHARMA and Others, not all the templates. And yes, in flight 316 we don't know the totals either. In the other groups, we should keep the counting. --Metalpotato - Talk - Contributions - 15:16, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

-There are lots of new casualties in both groups.

-Everyone alive in the island in the moment of the Jughead explosion should be considered as "unknown status", because we don't know if it was the incident or something that "didn't happen".

I think we should redesign and complete those body counts, or forget about them and count only the planes and expeditions survivors. And we don't have a 316 body count, and we already have a couple casualties. --Metalpotato - Talk - Contributions - 00:10, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Redshirts all dead?[]

Based on Bernard's comments, I think we should list all the remaining Flight 815 redshirts as "Probably killed in the flaming arrow attack." At this point, I think we can safely assume that they're not going to reappear. Also, the one or two that disappeared after the mercenary attack should be listed as "Probably killed in the mercenary attack," for similar reasons. Andrew1976 11:54, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Agree, but I'd say "or joined the others". In fact, I think the intention of showing Bernard and Rose is just that, to tell us everyone else is dead (or with the others). --Metalpotato - Talk - Contributions - 15:15, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree. I think we should count all the red shirts from Oceanic Flight 815 middle section, all dead, a majority of them being killed by the flaming arrows, Including Steve!!! I am sorry Steve is dead. And there were four red shirts who joined Locke's group back in Season 4, Two women and Two men. I know only three were shown killed, but obviously the fourth is dead. Can someone please make these changes as this page is becoming very unaccurate and unreliable. -- Shortguy457 14:25, 18 May 2009

Updates[]

  • I've updated it so all the redshirts that went missing after the flaming arrow attack are presumed dead. At this stage of the show with little over 10 episodes left, I seriously doubt we'll be seeing any of them. There's no proof any of them joined the Others either so we can only assume they died at some point after the flaming arrow attack. Phobia27 15:33, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
    • Everything should now be up to date for the Middle Section. I've included the woman who joined Locke's group in Season 4 with her death never being shown (presumably she is dead by now), I couldn't find a name for her though so feel free to update if there is a name for her. I've also removed the 'Joined in' and 'Cause of Joining' with 'Last seen in' and 'Current location'. Because this is the original survivors of the Middle Section, there is no reason for a 'Joined in' because nobody has joined. Also, it will be easier to keep the alive survivors up to date by simply showing which episode they were last seen in. Phobia27 15:59, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
    • I've also put the image of the 'Original timeline' up at the top of the page. It's probably best not to make this page even more confusing by adding who is alive in the sideways timeline and where they are. Phobia27 16:23, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

Black Rock and Widmore's team[]

I feel a couple of new sections are due. In Ab Aeterno Whitfield kills three slaves (one at the far end appears already dead) and states there are only five officers left. There appear to be at least four slaves already dead from the storm or shipwreck (one being eaten by boar). In recon Widmore's team, while currently all alive, seem to have plenty of redshirt material. Apart from Charles Widmore there's a Sub Officer, Zoe, Seamus, four gunmen capturing Sawyer, four antenna crew and two sub crew. Fanx 16:12, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Hungary Lostpedia[]

Those who can english, please start to make the Hungarian lostpédiát! thank you.

hu.lostpedia.wikia.com/‎

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