This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Across the Sea/Theories article. General discussion about the article's subject is permitted as a way to aid improvement of the article. Theories about the article subject should not be discussed here. (Instead, post your theory to this article's theory page or discuss it on this article's theory talk page.)
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.	Be polite, don't bite, have fun! Admins are here to help More discussion at the Forum	Article policies Canonicity Spoiler policy Theory policy

Are we allowed to talk about who's centric episode it possibly is? Cause I believe it is a MiB or a Jacob episode. Metroid101 21:13, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

• Theory for an episode should be based on ev ernts and issues raised in that episode. Because the episode has not aired, there is no theory.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 22:12, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • Don't tell me what I can't do. Sub zero 15:20, May 6, 2010 (UTC)

Contents 1 Vikings? 2 herr professor godel & GOD 3 apology 4 Who is a Ghost and Who is MIB 5 English 6 2000 BC, a guess and more guesses 7 Good and Bad 8 The power of E=mc2 9 Who are they? 10 How did the MIB's Body get out? 11 No Time Left for Elaborate Theories 12 Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God or Paradise by the Slice

Vikings? Edit

Someone on the "Theories" page mentions Vikings being on the Island - did I miss something somewhere?LeifTheLucky 12:43, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

• What language were the boar hunters speaking? That's as close as I can think that. Unless you know of some viking sagas that were written in Latin.--Lucky Day | msg 05:48, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Doc Jensen said one of his twitter friends said the actors were speaking Northern Highlands Swedish. There is no concrete source for this, other then his twitter page. Iamlost23 12:56, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

herr professor godel & GOD Edit

I have tried to send you all clues. Mr. Sheep, the Lord God's answer to Godel's theorem was to destroy the other gods. He (masculine) destroyed the Female Moon and the Morning Star (the Light Bearer, Lucifer). The Biblical vision of angels casting out evil angels is Persian . The classic struggle is taken from Zoroaster. (remember I mentioned St Augustine; the Persian influence in the Magi of Matthew. also in the Old Testament's praise of Cyrus as a deliver of the JEWS. Beelzebub is a corruption of a Hittite/Assyrian diety: the lord of the house became the lord of the flies. Baal Or Bel was the Canaanite rival of the God of Abraham. Try Volume I of Mircea Eliade's A history of religious idea. 1975. this sadistic, quasi- fascist is the authority in this area. If you find his version strange, try Michael Grant. He'll tell you a similar tale. Remember i used to bel the dragon, now after last night's episode, you may understand why. My constant references to Dostoyevsky should lead you to Ivan Karamazov's conversation with the devil. The latter laments his loss of status in the modern world.

However, the lord of Hosts had a special punishment for female gods. They were to become the ones who brought evil into the world. The New Eve was Mary, the vessel of the male God. Chapters 12 and 15 will explain how the Hebrew God took Persephone and Demeter and along with Dionysus instituted the Eucharist (see Genesis 11).

But the Hebrew God started a tradition (not contained in the Bible) but found in supplementary texts of a woman created by God that Adam rejected. Her name was Lilth. She is the cocaine -filled statues of Mary. Remember the Hebrew and Christian God created a woman outside of creation, ever virgin (tricks with wombs are also part of Indian religion, see chapter 9 of Eliade's work cited above), assumed into heaven.

The woman who gave birth was an Eve- type. ( By the way, there were apparently 7 european Eve's . This comes from the study of mitocrondrial DNA found only in the ovum.) Until Milton's Paradise Lost Eve got most of the blame for the Fall.

Milton changed the playing field by adding to Adam's guilt.

Dante gave Salvation in highest heaven to Eve because of the male God's redemption.

The headbasher we saw last night was brought to you by the male God. The one who denies women the priesthood because GOD is male.

So Herr Professor Godel, there was a divine intervention to provide a closed system where no higher level is, was, or will be required.

DEAR ANNIED I TOLD YOU ABOUT THE WAY YOU MIGHT LOOK AT THIS: I HAD NO SPOILERS: remeber I told you Charlie had a bad love, that Michael saved his son, Eli sacrificed hers, false parents and true.

Mittelman: Abortion, reproductive endocrinology, anthropology and theology, the nasty tone: they all had their purpose. Clues

IF any of you, read the beginning and ending of James Frazier's The Golden Bough, you'll see why this episode had to be. The guard stands awake at the post of Diana's sacred tree until he is killed. He serves the virgin goddess. She refuses fertility; that's why we have shown infertility and a wreck of a fertility deity. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The mortal veil (talk • contribs) .--The mortal veil 15:53, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

What the......? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Annarboral (talk • contribs) .

• ...You ate what? Rawr. 13:31, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
  • We must make this a featured page. --- Balk Of Fame ♪ talk 11:31, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

You can ignore it, make a featured page, up to you. I just call like (as) I see it. The fact that hawking kills her son may be reference to Dante's concept of Mary Canto 33 Paradise (in english Mary is the child of Christ). Here we have perversion of the traditional archetype. --The mortal veil 12:27, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

apology Edit

I am sorry I forgot sign my statement. I mean every word as a student of history and religion. I do not write history. I merely point out sources. I have never used any spoilers--The mortal veil 21:55, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Who is a Ghost and Who is MIBEdit

I had decided that if a dead person appeared, and only Hurley could see him/her, they were a ghost. And if others could see them, they were MIB impersonating (incorporating?) the dead person. When BIB sees dead Claudia, I thought OK, BIB has Hurley's power to see dead people and Jacob doesn't. But, now that we know mysterious boy is dead young Jacob, what about him? When MIB sees him,I say OK, MIB can see dead people. But then both Sawyer and Desmond see him when they are with MIB. So he can't be MIB. Any thoughts?Annarboral 01:46, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

EnglishEdit

Is there any signifigance to the charecters sudenly being able to speak english 2 minutes into the episode or was it just to make it easier for the audience? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rp2012 (talk • contribs) .

It was to make it easier for the audience to follow and because it would be difficult (cost, opportunity and ability) for the actors to learn to speak fluent Latin. Iamlost23 12:54, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

latin should not have existed at the time of this episode (around 2000BC --iron age) based on the structures and tools. there have been several encounters between bronze age cultures: 2 examples -- troy (bronze) and greece (iron) and egyptian technology (bronze) and hittite at the battle of Kadish. The virgin/witch existed in Roman times mostly among the Celts (who would have never accept a male-dominated society such as the Roman.--The mortal veil 15:50, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Mother gave Claudia the gift to speak English - notice the cup that she drinks from and the look on mothers face. I believe that this is the first clue in this episode that Mother is the Jacob of that era.--Bondavey 15:47, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

• Who/what is the source for 2000 BC?--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 16:45, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

2000 BC, a guess and more guesses Edit

Structures like this were found as early as 2000BC in China, Syria (more complex actually), and far more complex structures in Egypt (though without iron). This is the earliest but no latin. If you want Latin... then

The episode could have taken place From 54BC (Julius Caesar's incursion) to the Rome's first great withdrawl (about 69 70 AD)or after Hadrian ?s wall in the middle to late 2nd century: the time of Hadrian's wall built against the Scots. This is where the fabled last legion comes in. There were several Roman enclaves. If you assume Mother was a celtic witch (from a culture where women held power and property), if Claudia was Roman, then Britain or Ireland in that time period. It would hard to find an island between Britain and Ireland where one would not see land. Also from a previous episode (yes, the Richard backstory), one may assume that the island was once in the Atlantic.

One thing is clear it would quite a trick to get ROMAN CLAUDIA Or SPANISH RICCARDO from the Atlantic to the Pacific. Another thing the climate and vegetation is not typical of the North Atlantic.

I would forget the Latin and not think about how a Spanish man would go from the Atlantic to the Pacific on the way to the New World. Yeah, the island has an internal power source and could have moved and has a cloaking device.(SOUNDS LIKE THE HOLODECK IN STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION) I do not think anybody in 1867 used the term NEW WORLD. They would say North or South America.

Maybe it's easier think of no Latin, forget that nobody of European origin would around until the late 16th century. I do not where you find a Celtic witch there in the middle of the Pacific. This is fuzzy thinking: too many things do not fit. As allegory the episode is superb, but the time placeand language frankly confuse the viewer. ( I like Latin but...it would have been easier without it. I would stick with the earliest date as 2000BC with no Latin someplace in the Atlantic near Iberia or the Mediterranean. --The mortal veil 19:18, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

• Richad's transportation to the Island is not as mystery. Ships routinely travelled between the eastern and western hemispheres and no one ever told Richard he was going to the new world. Richard said that was what he and Isabella wanted to do.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 20:55, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Good and BadEdit

Just when the writers finally convince us of something, old MIB is pure evil, they change the rules! It seems Jacob is being good for the wrong reasons, and MIB is being bad for the right reasons. Jacob is being good and doing what he's told. But he was told by a crazy murderous woman. MIB rightfully wants to leave, but he's mad as hell and won't take it anymore. I don't blame him for killing Mother. She killed his birth mom and destroyed his village.Annarboral 21:53, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Was MiB being bad when he killed Mother? If she had slaughtered all the redcoats then surely he was right to kill her as a murderess on a small island is not really wanted! To further show his inherant kindness, MiB forgives Jacob after Jacob (as teenager) repeatedly beats MiB. I believe that this episode showed Jacob to be the dark side however, as MiB has got to live with Jacobs rules, he has to do Evil things in order to facilitate a way off the island. If Jacob is just like Mother then it is safe to presume that Jacob was ready to be released from his role and has manipulated everybody (including MiB) in order to reach his goal.--Bondavey 15:58, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

The power of E=mc2 Edit

The God of Abraham tolerates no other gods,especially these female wood deities. Like the Blues Brothers, they are on a mission for God. But they die. God has more than one player. We know einstein's equation energy and matter are interchangable. God cannot allow such power to be out of his control. It is not about morality; it is about TOE (the ownership of everything).--The mortal veil 16:34, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

Who are they? Edit

anybody who wants the death of MiB or Jacob so God can get control of the power and crush the cult of the woman (which may be represented by Mrs. Hawking the woman's sucessor or Rousseau):

How did the MIB's Body get out? Edit

When I first watched the episode, I thought that the MIB's body was thrown out along with the smoke. However, when I watched it the second time, I realised that Jacob then traveled down a hill to the river, then found the MIB on the rocks. This made it appear that his body was not pulled underground, but actually thrown out the back and down a small waterfall along with the water. If you look at the direction of the water (towards the cave, then away from the direction Jacob came from) this seems to make sense. Stilllost 20:50, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

• This. Or his body was in some way inside the Smoke when it left the cave Flexchen 11:17, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
  • That's my answer, too. This does NOT mean that it can be proven or dis-proven by examining slow motion or pulling screencaps. MiB may even have still been alive when he was carried out of the hole.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 13:15, May 15, 2010 (UTC)

No Time Left for Elaborate Theories Edit

With only around 3 hours left to go, after this episode I've resigned myself to the fact that we're not going to find detailed answers about the mythology of Lost... even less than I thought we would get. We have to accept that Lost is more "fantasy" than "sci-fi"

Theories have always fallen into two categories:

• Theories about the origins of things/people on/off the Island, and
• Theories about what is going to happen next.

I'm expecting there to be one more "explanation" episode which sets up some action-based conflict for the final two episodes to resolve. We just don't have time for elaborate, precise, or even rational explanations for things like the energy source we've just been shown.

In this episode, we effectively found out that:

• Jacob and MiB/Esau/Adam are brothers, and that neither are all good/all bad
• at the heart of the Island is an energy source - something desirable, but corruptible and must be protected by someone.
  • Or does it? Annarboral 03:14, May 17, 2010 (UTC)
• the Smoke Monster is effectively the MiB's soul/essence mixed with the "light"

There may be another explanation for where the smoke monster came from, but I think this episode was designed to answer that question (albeit vaguely) so they're unlikely to spend more time given a more comprehensive answer.

The point is, we just don't have time left to answer all the mysteries about the origin of things now, and it would make more sense to focus more on what is likely to happen. In a sense, to go into detail would lessen things (you didn't need to know where "The Force" came from to like Star Wars). You're not likely to find out where Mother came from, anymore than the Bible will tell you where God came from.

So the major questions I can see that still need to be resolved are:

• what is the significance of the split-timeline, and how does this relate to Jacob's plan (if at all)?
• who is Jacob's replacement going to be (if anyone)?
• what is the MiB's plan, and how will he be thwarted?
• what is Charles Widmore's plan, and how does Desmond fit in with it?

Stilllost 21:10, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

succinctly put! Annarboral 03:14, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God or Paradise by the Slice Edit

1.Dickens---Great Expectations. The mysterious prisoner (Inmate of madhouse)who is Pip's benefactor = Libby (sailboat). Jaggers the lawyer as a puppetmaster = Faraday, Mrs Haversham = Eli Hawking. Hume and Penny as Pip and his beloved. We switched from our Mutual Friend (the triangle of faraday, widmore and desmond)Unless he has sudden change of heart, Widmore will likely be reading Our Mutual Friend as he dies. 2. Nobody wants to be Mib or Jacob or the new Jacob. Jonathan Edwards' famous sermon applies. God wants all light, all the power. they are dead meat. Along with the wicked witch and her successors 3.Dostoyevsky: ws are doling the parts of the 4 brothers Alyosha = Hurley (whose power exceeds Jacob's the holy one). Sawyer = Dmitri the unjustly condemned. Jack = Ivan who has played too long with a shabby devil (Locke). There is nothing worst than misplaced faith. Smerdyakov the illegimate son, small, and evil,(Ben) the real killer who hung himself (a slight change in victims on LOST). 4. But there are slices of Paradise waiting. The famous question about the shadow of the statue is a trick, a sign of who is going to cut the cake. Lapidus, Ben, Hurley, Hume, Faraday, Burke. From the Latin, this person is NOT a liar. This person is buried (dead) or reclining in the shadow (living). He gets to play the deity for 60 minutes: like PJ Farmer "TO YOUR SCATTERED BODIES GO" no take backs, no give backs, final judgment.--The mortal veil 21:17, May 17, 2010 (UTC)