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Podcast Summary • Podcast Transcript

[Opening Lost Theme]

Kris White: Welcome to a special edition of the Official Lost Podcast. Today we join writers Javier Grillo-Marxuach and Leonard Dick for their full episode commentary on "Collision," which aired Wednesday, November 23rd. This podcast can be enjoyed synced up with the episode or as a stand alone treat. Either way, enjoy.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Alright hi! I'm Javier Grillo-Marxuach writer and supervising producer of Lost and I'm here with …

Leonard Dick: Leonard Dick. Also a writer and supervising producer on Lost.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: … And this is sort of a special podcast because you're actually going to watch the episode "Collision" along with us, and we are going to comment on things that are going on, and perhaps later it will deteriorate into complete anarchy. But before we do that, happy Thanksgiving.

Leonard Dick: Or as we in my native Canada call it: Thursday.


Javier Grillo-Marxuach: And because you're watching the episode along with us, we are actually going to start at the time the episode starts. So, I'm going to ask you to push pause, and start the podcast when the episode begins. So let's pause the podcast right now and begin when the episode starts.

[Long pause]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: We are just waiting for it to begin because it hasn't started yet.. This is all gonna be edited out right? Can I just pick my nose? It's gross. It's horrible. So previously on Lost, Jack meets Ana Lucia at a bar in a seedy airport in Sydney. We are just watching a couple of scenes from previous episodes, it's very exciting. I did not write this episode, nor did Leonard, so we really don't have a whole lot to say about it, do we Leonard?

Leonard Dick: Other than, it's nice to see someone from introducing season one back in season two.


Javier Grillo-Marxuach: That's true. Yeah it's kind of a thing we did with Ana Lucia was we kind of wanted to shock and stun the audience by having a character from one of the flashbacks appear on the Island in the middle of season two, so that was a decision that was made pretty early in season one to bring her into the show, and to make her seem as regular, oh oh, Shannon's been shot, oh that's bad. Sorry about that, it's just so shocking even watching it now, isn't it Leonard?

Leonard Dick: Yeah, too many people were invested in her and to see her die was actually quite hard to watch.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah, and it's hard to part with Maggie Grace who's a fantastic actor, and we love having her on the show and all that. So it was a creative decision that was rather difficult to do. So the previously on has just ended, and we have Ana Lucia shooting. Leonard this was one of yours.

Leonard Dick: Yep we thought it would be interesting to have Ana Lucia do exactly what we've seen her do on the Island and that it would be a very cool striking visual to start.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Also her grouping of shots is really quite impressive. I don't know did she actually do her own shooting on this thing?

Leonard Dick: I don't believe so.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Really? Oh wow.

Leonard Dick: But she is good.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Well, you just shattered my universe.

Leonard Dick: This is Rick Overton who is playing the psychiatrist which I thought was a good casting find. Rick, we wanted somebody who was tough enough to hang in there with Ana Lucia, a psychiatrist that she wouldn't be able to push over, and Rick who I've worked before I thought was a really good piece of casting.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: When did you work on him before?

Leonard Dick: A show called My Guide to Becoming a Rock Star.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Oh really?

Leonard Dick: On the WB. I think it lasted either five or five and a half episodes.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Dude, don't say the WB on the podcast, man. You gotta say like on another network or something.

Leonard Dick: Oh, that's right, another network that shall not be named.

[Javier laughs]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: But its initials are the WB. He's also- He's a really fine stand up comedian also, and it's really fun to see him doing a dramatic role 'cause I just remember seeing his stand up comic like at the Improv, like Night at the Improv and stuff like that, and I really found him very funny. But he's not really doing the comedy here, is he?

Leonard Dick: No, he's playing it straight and you do believe that Ana L- I guess I believe that Ana Lucia would actually talk to this guy plain and straight.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: That's one of the things I really like about him as an actor and this scene specifically and I really liked about him as a comic is that he has very sort of- he's got a very welcoming persona, and I think that really helped him out in comedy in terms of some of his edgier material, so it's a very, um... I thought it was a good casting choice.

Leonard Dick: It's also I thought cool to have Ana Lucia have someone where she's forced to open up because she's been playing it closed. We know that there's something- we sense that there's something beneath the surface here, and finally we're getting a little glance at what is beneath that surface.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Absolutely. And I think, you know, she's a character who has kind of been a villain since the beginning of the season, and I think this is, you know, in addition to what happened in our previous episode, which was "The Other 48 Days," which was all about what she went through on the Island, this is sort our way to kind of give the audience a little bit more of a handle onto her.

Leonard Dick: And in case you can't read that--

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: [singing Dragnet theme] dun-duh-dun-dun

Leonard Dick: --that is city of Los Angeles. She is not a Mountie, as has been suspected.

[Javier laughs]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Well, you know, Leonard, you tend to Canada up everything you do, so we were really worried that that might be the outcome of that.

Leonard Dick: I'm on the payroll for the minister of tourism.

[Javier laughs]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: You know, this scene is actually the bone of a lot of contention because, you know, Sayid is gonna go to town, and here goes the big fight, and one of the things that's sort of an untold fact about Lost is that there's a big, you know, Leonard is certainly a big fan of Sayid, and Carlton is a big fan of Mr. Eko's, so there was a lot of discussion about who would actually win this fight.

Leonard Dick: But what was actually- what's cool about it is that it's a way for it to reactivate Sayid, to remind the audience, to remind you, everybody, that Sayid was a tough soldier in the Republican Guard, and that he could definitely hold his own with somebody as formidable as Eko, and it was actually the first time we've seen someone be able to get the upper hand on Eko.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah, and, you know, Sayid has been playing the romantic hero for so long now that it's almost like a nice change to see him actually turn on that part of his personality, so um... But the fight's over and actually I didn't really catch who won the- Was there actually a victory in the fight? Oh! We're done now. Here comes the big Lost. It's coming towards us.

Leonard Dick: By the way, I think the answer, if this were pro wrestling, it would have been the manager came in with a chair.

[Javier laughs]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: And beat Sayid over the back of the head?

Leonard Dick: That's what Ana Lucia did.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Okay, so I think we have a commercial now. We're gonna pause this and start it again when the thing begins again.


Javier Grillo-Marxuach: And we're back. Okay, it's really tense, Ana Lucia holding everybody at gunpoint. So the results of the Sayid versus Mr. Eko fight are inconclusive at best.

Leonard Dick: I believe they're going to be participating in a rematch in Vegas at a hotel to be named.

[Javier laughs]

Leonard Dick: There will be a big crowd and a lot of action that weekend.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: That's right. It's interesting because now we're really seeing sort of Ana Lucia at her just complete- This is sort of the cork popping on this character, and it's- She's been through everything she's been through. Now she's actually shot an innocent civilian. She's been attacked. This is it. This character's at the end of her rope.

Leonard Dick: And it's cool for me because she's a rational. We've been seeing her functioning on a very rational axis, and now all of a sudden she's gone to this extreme which we have not seen before.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Right. And we sort of configured this episode- you know, it's funny, in TV, you know, there's always the hostage crisis episode or something like that, at least in the shows that I've worked on. I'm not sure My Guide to Becoming a Rock Star had a hostage crisis--

[Leonard chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: --but you can tell me if that's the case, but-

Leonard Dick: Let me think... one... t- No.

[Javier laughs]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: So this is sort of our version of the Dog Day Afternoon kind of model of a show.

Leonard Dick: And it also give us an opportunity to play the eventual reunion of the two camps to make it messy--

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yes.

Leonard Dick: --to put in some conflict and raise some stakes as opposed to: Hello. How are you? Nice to see you.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: It was very important that these people not get along, and you think with somebody like An- Oh! Here she is in a cop uniform, uh... We should probably say something about this, shouldn't we?

Leonard Dick: Uh, that is a blue uniform.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Heh, it is. In fact, she's got a (???) hanging from her belt.

Leonard Dick: Of the LAPD. Uh, Javier pitched red and green. That was nixed.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah. It was actually chartreuse, man, come on, selling me out to the audience. Rachel Ticotin, my friends, she is fantastic. We love her, and she did a great job in this episode. And there's a big twist in the scene right now that's gonna happen as we're watching this, so I'm- This detective, by the way, is named after Matt Ragghianti, our faithful writer's assistant, and we're actually gonna do a spinoff called Raggs, and it's gonna be all about this character. We're very excited about it, and we may bring this actor back, or Matt might actually wind up playing him. He's been very hard to negotiate with so...

Leonard Dick: [chuckles] We have the first five episodes broken.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Exactly, yeah, it's gonna be very exciting. So one of the things I like about this scene, and I guess it hasn't happened yet, but it will, and by the time I'm done teeing it up, you'll know what I'm talking about, is that Ana Lucia actually speaks in Spanish to the captain character, to Cortez, and what's interesting about it is that Michelle Rodriguez is part Puerto Rican, and for me as a native Spanish speaker, to hear her speaking Spanish in the correct accent for the kind of nationality that she's playing is actually really exciting to me. So I remember when we were watching this in dailies I burst out into uproarious laughter, and it was just because I heard a voice that sounded very familiar to me.

Leonard Dick: I watched it before the subtitles were in place, and I thought that one had called the other a penguin--

[Javier laughs]

Leonard Dick: --so I completely misunderstood.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Well, that's what you get when you trust me to do your translations. So now the cat's out of the bag. Ana Lucia works for her mother, continuing a long Lost tradition of bad parenting

Leonard Dick: One of the things I thought was very cool about this was seeing Ana Lucia have to defer to someone in authority. We've seen Ana Lucia in control taking charge, but now she is here the subordinate, and she has no leverage here, which I thought was appealing.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: 'Cause it's your mom, I mean it's like, she's not just a captain she's mom, you can't-

Leonard Dick: Oh, Raggs is back.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Raggs is back, yeah, keep your eye on that guy-

Leonard Dick: Previously on Raggs.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Previously on Raggs. You sold me out, man. I had that bank robber. No, I'm sorry. I'm on a whole other show here. Yeah, this is sort of a little piece of personal cruelty that mom sort of foists on Ana Lucia.

Leonard Dick: We also spent three hours riffing on what kind of cake it should have been.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah, exactly, now I remember because-

Leonard Dick: Strawberry, tangerine...

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Well, I was a big proponent of the log, you know, the sort of chocolate covered log, the ice cream log, you know?

Leonard Dick: But this is interesting. This is- What we're seeing the island technology, Jack has developed a rain capturing system.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yes.

Leonard Dick: Before you just would stand out in the rain, stick out your tongue, or go to the springs, but now we have a way to capture rain.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Exactly, it's fan-

Leonard Dick: So props to our designer and our set people. I thought this was really cool to see.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: And rain is notoriously hard to capture. It puts up quite a squall. So this is a really good thing to...

[Leonard chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: I love this line. Oh, I love that. I love that she says that. It's just sort of a nice little pop for- Oh, wait a minute. Was that the Others? Was it a weapon? Was it a bullet? What is it? It's... golf. This is a sports related discussion, Leonard, I'm turning it over to you.

Leonard Dick: Everyone of course last year seemed to love the golf story, and we wanted to find a way to bring it back in a different way, sort of an organic character way, and we thought that this would be a nice way to reestablish the Jack/Kate relationship, uh... you're gonna see why in a couple seconds, but the other thing that was cool was actually watching Maggie swing, uh, little known fact-

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: That'd be Evangeline Lilly?

Leonard Dick: I'm sorry, what did I say?

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Maggie.

Leonard Dick: I still have Maggie on the brain. We miss Maggie. She was great. But Evie, as I understand it, had not golfed a lot and learned pretty quickly how to swing. And she looked like a pro, at least to me.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: It's actually, you know, it's interesting because my father-in-law, with whom I'm probably sitting down for Thanksgiving dinner right now as you're hearing this, judges all media by whether or not the golf in it is good. So if you say, "Did you like Lost in Translation?" you know, he'll say, "Yeah, Bill Murray has a great golf swing."


Javier Grillo-Marxuach: So I'm proud to say at least we have some good golf going on on the show, so he'll be very excited about this so... And this is a nice scene because- and this scene was primarily Leonard's doing, and it's a nice scene because we're seeing a little bit of that spark between- it's been such an intense ride up until this episode that to finally see these characters having a little smiley time, you know, a little bit of relationship stuff, it's kind of fun, you know.

Leonard Dick: Yeah.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: It's nice to lighten up a little bit. And I remember in Season 1 when the concept of the golf course was introduced, there was some real c- Oh, okay, we're back to the dark and intense Lost. But let me- when the concept of the golf course was brought in, you know, there was a lot of contention about whether or not we want to see our castaways playing golf 'cause it's such a light thing, but, you know, it really worked out, and it's something we're happy to bring back. ... Sayid tied to the tree, which should be a big boon to our fans who are into that sort of thing.

Leonard Dick: And Sayid's still in a place where he is mourning the loss of Shannon, whom he loved.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Absolutely. And that's really what's carrying him through the entire episode, you know, it's like one of the things that's a little bit hard to realize with Lost for the casta-

Leonard Dick: I just got excited. I love when Sayid gets angry.

[Javier laughs]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: You were firmly in the Sayid would win that fight camp, weren't you? Like-

Leonard Dick: Oh yeah.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Oh yes.

[talking over each other]

Leonard Dick: I'll be there ringside for the rematch.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah, Leonard has a little man-crush on Sayid. It's not a lie. It's (???), we're comfortable with it.

Leonard Dick: So this moment here is also... I thought- I liked this moment a lot. It's- we're seeing some conflict. We're seeing a little bit of tension between Ana Lucia and Eko, who have been allies up until this point.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah, things can be very fractious on the other side and, you know- Oh! You've gotta press pause now. Come back when the commercial's done. We'll finish this anecdote, I swear.

Leonard Dick: There's a fissure between them. I just love saying the word fissure. I learned it during my SAT prep, and I'm glad I can use the word.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Okay, we're back. And actually this is Big Mike, Ana Lucia's partner. You may not hear his name during the episode, but his name is actually Big Mike.

Leonard Dick: Or as we refer to him...

Javier & Leonard: [singing together] BIIIG MIIIKE

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah, we're very excited about that. We sing this song all the time.

Leonard Dick: We'd like to do a spinoff of him to follow Raggs.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah.

Leonard Dick: So it'll be Raggs at 8, Big Mike at 9.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yes, exactly. And Locke and the Monster, the cartoon series, at 10.

[Leonard chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: (???), that's what we do. Michael Cudlitz, who plays Big Mike, is a fantastic actor.

Leonard Dick: Real pro.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: And we just absolutely adored him at audition. There were a lot of great guys who came in, but he's just a guy who, you know, was almost born to be Big Mike, you know.

Leonard Dick: I'm sorry, born to be whom?

Javier & Leonard: [singing together] BIIIG MIIIKE

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: I think we have to do that every time we say the words, you know, that start with B and M, so we're gonna be sparing our use of it.

[Leonard chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Anyway- No, because if you say it then you gotta sing it, you know, and that's- and if you do it, I'll hold you to that.

Leonard Dick: It's a new drinking game, non-alcoholic, of course.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: That's right, non-alcoholic, of course. Thanksgiving drinking game. For the casual viewer of Lost, a little bit hard to realize sometimes that the episodes really follow each other day after day, so all the emotions are really fresh. Okay, this scene is just intense, um, you know, and it's just a lot going on here, and this is sort of to show Ana Lucia's state of mind (???)

Leonard Dick: And I think this is also a testament to our director Steve Williams and the way this was cut. When you watch these in dailies, they play sort of quiet 'cause you watch one camera angle, then you watch another camera angle, but when it's cut together it plays pretty intense, and so kudos to them.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Whoa! Here comes the gun! okay, she's a cop on the edge, uh, really, she destroyed a television.

Leonard Dick: By now, you're probably starting to think there's something about Ana Lucia and guns.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah, you think Ana Lucia's a little twitchy?

Leonard Dick: Yeah.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: A little trigger finger there, huh? No, not at all. This was actually our audition scene for the character, for the Big M-

Javier & Leonard: [singing together] BIIIG MIIIKE

Leonard Dick: Everyone take a drink.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Okay. And it was really interesting because I think Michael, who plays Big Mike, just really sold us on the intensity of the scene in the room.

Leonard Dick: I will say, a private note, which is when I watched this episode at home with my wife, when Ana Lucia pulled the gun, she gasped. She thought she was gonna pull the trigger.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Well, it's a pretty shocking moment. I mean, I- we don't know what's happening with Ana Lucia, what kind of an officer involved shooting she was involved with, you know. Did she kill somebody? What happened with her? So we're getting little bits and pieces of it and trying to figure out what exactly's going on with her.


Javier Grillo-Marxuach: I love that in the previous episode where she snaps that guy's leg back. It's actually one of my favorite things we've done with him, Sam Anderson, who plays Bernard, whom actually cast in an episode of Boomtown a few years ago, a series on another network whose initials are N [static]

Leonard Dick: I thought this was a great Michael moment-

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Disney folk among us are cringing. They're like, "Oh, we're gonna have to bleep that out." [chuckles]

Leonard Dick: I love that Michael, who has been hurting from Walt and has been kicked around every which way to Tuesday, in just- in a moment of defiance, just walks up, gives Sayid the water.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah.

Leonard Dick: Does not care what Ana Lucia would do. Challenge- In effect, calls the first bluff on her.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: It has been less than five days since-- about five days, right? --since Walt went missing, and it's like again, the freshness of these emotions, you know, it's like one of the challenges on writing the show and all that is that everything happens so quickly after everything else that it's easy to sometimes forget, you know, it's only been 50 days since the plane crashed-

Leonard Dick: Right and actually this is- what you're watching now is actually the first encounter between one of the raft survivors with one of our original fuselage survivors.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Oh my god, that's true. That's true, yeah. I hadn't thought about that. And I guess one of things that we tried to sort of not tap dance but to really deal with in the season is sort of how is all this information keeps getting transferred without having a bunch of scenes where everybody's going, "Well, the Others came and took Walt and shot us," you know [chuckles]. So it was a little bit of a challenge writing this episode to not have every scene be an information download on everything, you know, um... Angry Sayid. And, you know, Naveen is just money in the bank. He's such a fantastic actor. He sells the anger and the rage so well, um... There's- there are a lot of different versions of the scene. There's a crying version of the scene. There was one that was more mournful. There's sort been a lot- there's a lot of takes that he gave us and a lot of different angles on that scene that we got. It's a beautiful place. I think the last time I saw this in a motion picture, there were velociraptors running.

[Leonard chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: It's raptor valley from Jurassic- They weren't v- they were sort of like orange chicken dinosaurs, but raptors are the only thing I can remember. Evangeline Lilly, not an unfit young lady, is she?

Leonard Dick: No.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: No, she's um...

Leonard Dick: Quite athletic.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yes, exactly... And did she actually play her own golf in this? I don't know what the-

Leonard Dick: Uh, the swings are real, and I believe the ball placement, uh...

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Is a P.A. standing just outside of the frame throwing the ball in the hole? [chuckles]

Leonard Dick: Why don't we just- I think it's safer to say yes, Evangeline hit it 600 yards--

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: It was amazing.

Leonard Dick: --and landed right at the flag.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: She did- In fact, that was the only scene we could use where she didn't do a hole in one. It was staggering. I mean, I couldn't believe it, you know, take after take, and she just kept sinking it.

Leonard Dick: And Foxy is PGA level, uh, very nobly hooked it for us so that we would have story.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yes, it was hard for him. I mean, he couldn't actually hook it. Okay, here we go. So we're in the- Now what's coming up- I really love this because this is a real contrast between, you know, total just sort of fun on the Island, relationship stuff, and then something is gonna happen. I don't wanna spoil it.

Leonard Dick: And stubborn Jack is great, will not- He is not gonna let her get the upper hand.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: No, absolutely.

Leonard Dick: He's gonna hit this thing, come hell or high water.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: And it's- the nice thing about it is that this is very true to his character. I mean, this is the same Jack who wouldn't let go of Boone. But it's him in a lighter moment, which really works for us as a character (???) so- And now look at Kate's face. Yeah, uh-huh, something's going on. But what is it? Is it a giant lemur? Is it the Monster? Is it Lostzilla? Uh, no, it's Eko carrying Sawyer, which is probably just as incongruous a sight for these guys as anything... And I like how Jack's sort of wielding the...

Leonard Dick: Adewale is pretty damn strong.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yes.

Leonard Dick: I couldn't do that.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Our little nod to Gilgamesh right here in the infamous crossword scene. And the thing is like, the sight of this guy showing up holding Sawyer on his shoulders is probably as incongruous as anything else we could have shown at this point, isn't it? Here we are at the Lost bachelor pad. Locke was listening to some Esquivel music, but now it's all been uh...

[Leonard chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: This is the infamous shower scene. I think a lot of fanfic will be written about this scene in the future. A lot of photoshop manipulations will wind up on the Internet.

Leonard Dick: Because of the shower or 'cause of the crossword?

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Oh no, that's Jack and Sawyer in the shower. What, are you kidding?

Leonard Dick: Oh, yes.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: That's gold to a lot of people, man.

Leonard Dick: Oh, I didn't even think of that. See, Lost always has all these levels. I never even thought of that.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: No, there is a large portion of the audience that wouldn't mind seeing a little Jack and Locke action going on there, so that's, you know- Not Jack and Locke, I'm sorry, Jack and Sawyer. I mean, I'm sure some wouldn't mind seeing some Jack and Locke action, but that's just not how we roll here at Lost right now.

[Leonard chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Who knows, the show goes seven years, don't rule anything out, but we'll see. And again, this is, you know, this scene was a challenge just technically as a writer because it's another scene where like now we've got Sawyer in it, he can't talk, thank god because otherwise we'd have like people just telling each other what happened left and right. It's a big challenge for us.

Leonard Dick: And now we have what is going to be our first encounter between the two- How would you term it, Javi?

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Uh, just mystical--

Javier & Leonard simultaneously: --wise men--

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: --of the Island, yes.

Leonard Dick: One from each side.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah.

Leonard Dick: I thought this was a nice sort of economy of storytelling. It's just: hello, hello.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: It's like what do they actually have to say to each other? It's like, you know: Hello, I'm the mystical wise man of the east side of the Island. And I'm the mystical wise man of the west side of the Island.

Leonard Dick: Can I see your club card?

[Javier laughs]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: How's the company picnic? Fantastic. So um... And this is sort of the continuing fragmentation of-

Leonard Dick: I'm sorry, fissure. I just need to say the word fissure.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Fissure.

Leonard Dick: There's another fissure in the-

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Leonard loves the word fissure.

Leonard Dick: I studied hard for my SATs.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: No, it's very exciting. I like that Bernard has his jaunty cravat--

[Leonard chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: --that he's been wearing for the last ten days. It's you know- 'cause you can look like a ragged survivor, but that doesn't mean you should lose your sense of style. I think it's very important to-

Leonard Dick: And I think next fall in Paris, you're gonna see the ripped pant leg. [chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: And the jaunty cravat, yes. Uh, you know what, I actually- but I have to tell you the last guy to wear a jaunty cravat on the show was Arzt, and we all know what happened to him, so, you know, I think I would take the cravat off very, uh, in short notice.

Leonard Dick: I'm sorry, what kind of cravat was that, Javi?

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Jaunty. It's a jaunty cravat.

[Leonard laughs]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: But in all seriousness, this is really a scene where we're trying to show that Ana Lucia is gonna be at the end of her rope. She's already lost Eko, and this is where it becomes a real hostage situation. This is where we really cross the line from just being an uncomfortable thing going on here with the death of Shannon and the very near aftermath to: Here are my demands. You want me to let your people go, here's what it's gonna take. ... And Jin, you know, sadly is sort of, because he- I think Jin understands a lot more English than he can speak, and I think it's something we've been actually going on for much of the last half of the first season and the second season is that Jin, though not an English speaker, he's probably been exposed to it in popular culture in Korea and all that, and he really does get what's going on--

Leonard Dick: Yeah.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: --because he has to. And it's not just a device. I think that, you know, certainly I experienced it with some of my Puerto Rican friends who, you know, there's a lot more reading of cues and things that goes on.

Leonard Dick: It's also interesting how far the Jin/Michael relationship has come since Season 1--

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: That's right.

Leonard Dick: --that they even have a shorthand. And all Jin has to do is give Michael a nod. Micheal gets it. Michael knows Jin will cover for him.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Well, there's something that happens when men are in a raft alone at sea.

Leonard Dick: Yes.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: But it's not this kind of shorthand thing. It's something else entirely that we can't talk about on primetime.

Leonard Dick: It's based on what happens in our writers room.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: [chuckles] Oh, dear lord, Leonard! No, don't tell them!

Leonard Dick: I mean Javi says I'm gonna get a water. I say- I give you a nod.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: And pause it.


Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Okay, now we're here at the parking structure of the Los Angeles-

Leonard Dick: And there driving the car is--

Javier & Leonard: [singing together] BIIIG MIIIKE

Leonard Dick: Everyone at home--

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: It's the har-

Leonard Dick: --take a drink.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Everyone at home take a drink. It's the harmonies I like, Leonard. And again, it's interesting because, you know, Michael again sort of playing this role. He just really sells a lot of the uncertainty of like, I'm with a trigger happy partner, this isn't good, you know.

Javier & Leonard: RAGGS

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: He's back, coming soon to primetime, 9/8 pm on Saturdays.

Leonard Dick: This'll be interesting. This is the only scene in the show where Raggs and Big Mike are on camera together.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Oh, is that right? You think maybe they're the same person?

Leonard Dick: Yes.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: So they got-

Leonard Dick: No.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: So they got the guy. They got the guy, and we're trying to figure out: Who is the guy? What is the guy? What does this scene mean? Because we've kind of been leading you to believe that Ana Lucia shot somebody.

Leonard Dick: So why would the guy that she shot be sitting there healthy in an interview room?

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Exactly. So here comes- And actually he was supposed to be quite beaten up by the detectives who interrogated him, and that sort of changed a little bit in the filming and all that. So here we get the big reveal that Ana Lucia did not shoot a guy, but she was actually shot by a guy, and that's why she's been away, so it's not- Hopefully, if you've been led along by us, you're actually in a place where this is surprising to you.

Leonard Dick: Yeah.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: I'm not surprised and neither is Leonard because we wrote this episode together.

[Leonard chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: But if we had not seen it, I promise you we'd be shocked and stunned.

Leonard Dick: I also love Rachel's performance here.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: She's just fantastic. I mean, I liked her-

Leonard Dick: Walking the line of superior and mother.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah, and I've liked her since she was in Total Recall. She's just a fantastic actress. I think we're really happy to have her, and I hope we get some more with Ana Lucia and her mom, you know. And this is a little bit of a quieter moment with Ana Lucia. And, you know, I think that at some point eventually- and we had a scene in the previous episode where Ana Lucia breaks down and cries for the first time in 40 days, and I think this is again sort of following up on the fact that eventually what you do on the Island catches up to you, and there has to be a certain sense of regret because what happens on the Island is... is a very brutal place, and a lot of horrible things have happened here, and I think this is one of those moments where Ana Lucia's past with all of its freight train strength is catching up to her, and it's a very difficult thing.

Leonard Dick: Yeah, and she does not shoot the gun wantonly.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: No, I mean--

Leonard Dick: Circumstances

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: --it was an accidental shooting. I love that we have the closet o'war here--

[Leonard chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: --in the Lost bachelor pad. It's very exciting.

Leonard Dick: Softened by the ping-pong table in the background.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Exactly, yes, and the nice cushy pillows. Um, again, you know, Mr. Eko and Locke, these two guys, you know, Terry is just a fantastic actor, and I think it's one of the nice things about, you know, we don't need to have them give monologues to each other, you know, these two guys are both very interesting in terms of just what they don't say and how they approach what they do say.

Leonard Dick: I'm convinced that both these actors could read the back of a cereal box and make it interesting.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: I actually went to see Terry O'Quinn in Phone Book: The Motion Picture.

[Leonard chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: And it was pretty amazing, you know, and he played himself reading the phone book. It was pretty cool. And Adewale has such a compelling screen presence. He's so intense and so just you know- These are two guys who are real sort of heavyweights as actors, and just to see them in scenes together is really a lot of fun.

Leonard Dick: There was a lot of fighting over who was gonna write these scenes.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yes, there was, and I'm happy to say that Damon won.

[both laugh]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: You know, and it's interesting because the Lost bachelor pad has kind of become like a set for us and such a weird contrast between we're living on a beach on an island, you know, sometimes off the ruins of a plane, and now all the sudden we're, you know- Now this scene is gonna cause a lot of relationship talk, and I'd like to turn it over to the writer, Leonard Dick, ladies and gentleman.

Leonard Dick: This for us was a question of casting your ballots. Who should end up with whom? Why should this person end up with that person? How is this gonna play out? And I actually love the way that this was directed. It took place in close quarters. The original idea was to place it on the bunk bed to force everyone into an intimate setting. And you have, you know, Kate touching Sawyer, Jack right there, he can't-

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: He's touching Sawyer. Everybody's touching Sawyer.

Leonard Dick: Yes.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: It's like- It's weird. Sawyer's just getting touched all over the place.

[Leonard chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: And it's kinda creepy, I don't know. I don't like it. I'm sorry, Leonard, you were saying?

Leonard Dick: Not at all.

[Javier laughs]

Leonard Dick: But we discussed the issue of is Jack gonna let Kate- He's a doctor. Is he gonna let her dispense the medicine? But, you know, Kate takes action. She grabs it, and Jack as a doctor, his priority is to get this medicine into Sawyer any way he can, and if it requires this, then so be it.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: It's interesting because there's also some subversions going on, you know, of Kate and Jack's relationship in favor of Sawyer's relationship with Jack's professional pride as a doctor, there's all these things that are going on. It's a very- for me, you know, even though a lot of people who fall into the Kate and Sawyer relationship part of the show are gonna like what they're seeing, for me, I don't really fall in either place. I think each relationship could have- be very interesting, but it's a very uncomfortable scene because, you know, to be the third person in the scene where somebody is being so intimate with somebody else, and they're both people who have a very complicated relationship, and it's a tough scene.

Leonard Dick: And I also love Foxy's expressions here.

[long pause]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: It's interesting though because what's happening, you know, Matthew is the kind of actor who really hustles the beats that he's doing, and when he's doing a scene, you can just see the thought process going on in the character. There's really something always alive behind his eyes, and it's a pretty cool thing, so...

Leonard Dick: So now this is sort of the grand fissure scene. All of Ana Lucia's allies are now betraying her, and she is definitely on her own.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah, she's losing everyone who she had for support.

Leonard Dick: No more jaunty cravat.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: No, jaunty cravat is (???)

Leonard Dick: No ripped pant leg.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah, that's right. You know what, Sam, you know, it's interesting because this is a role that could very easily be sort of very complainy role, and I think that Sam really sort of nails it in terms of giving Bernard a kind of dignity and a kind of, you know, he's a guy who is a little bit older and probably not as able to do the kind of action/adventure that a lot of people do on this island, but he really carries off what he's doing with a dignity and a gravity that I think really sells what that character's been through.

Leonard Dick: He's been money since we first saw him on screen.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Oh absolutely, absolutely. But then again, you know, pretty much everybody is fantastic. And I'd like for this to be the moment where I say the same thing about Daniel Dae Kim, who I've adored since day one, and who was fantastic in an episode that I wrote last season called "House of the Rising Sun" and an episode that Leonard and I wrote together called "In Translation." He's just really turned this character into a very likeable persona-

Leonard Dick: And it's amazing because starting out, a lot of the viewers, a lot the fans genuinely disliked Jin by design, and now he is- he's become a beloved character.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: It's a testament to his ability as an actor--

Leonard Dick: Absolutely.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: --to sort of, you know, sell the villainy of the character at first and all that and to now be able to really play him sympathetic, or Chewie, as we like to call him on occasion 'cause there is a real Han Solo/Chewbacca relationship between Sawyer and uh... Oh! Pause-pause.


Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Welcome to podcasting for dollars. I am (yihemnik?), and this is (nehamkin?). Oh, sorry, it's Lost.

[Leonard chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Too bad. I'm sorry. So, you know, I cannot get enough of people running through the jungle. It's just so, you know- I saw the trailer for The Fog, and it was Maggie Grace running through like a forest, and I was like, "Did they just cut that from Lost?" 'cause, you know, we got plenty of that. Okay, this is fantastic, again sort of Yunjin selling the first- you know, she probably saw Michael, you know, when they were walking to do the scene together.

Leonard Dick: And it's interesting because in this scene, there are like 973,000 different emotions--

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Absolutely.

Leonard Dick: --that are playing at once: Michael's return, he's safe, oh my god, where is Jin?, what's going on? Both actors are- just sell it great.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah, she doesn't have a lot of lines or screen time to do this- And that mural has been dissected on the Internet, you wouldn't believe. There's theories about the mural. There's diagrams on the mural. It's fantastic. So, yeah, and that's the thing with Yunjin is, again also a fantastic actor on the show, and just in that brief pop with her, you see there's conflicting emotions that she's feeling about seeing Michael. It's great.

Leonard Dick: Now this is a scene that we have nicknamed alpha-male-palooza.

[Javier laughs]

Leonard Dick: Jack, Locke, Adewale...

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah, somebody needs to open the hatch and let some of the testosterone out--

[Leonard chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: --because it's just- I mean it's like- Seriously, I mean, this would be like, if this were a movie like Network, you know, they'd all be wearing suits, drinking scotch, and hitting each other, while yelling--

[Leonard chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: --yelling pithy monologues at each other. I guess, you know, but not for me to compare myself to Paddy Chayefsky in any way whatsoever. Just to say, hey if this were a movie set in New York about television, they'd be wearing suits, drinking scotch and yelling, right? And I'd like to see that movie, by the way. And, you know, it's interesting because here, you know, one of the things that just- And now Michael's in the hatch, and it's like: How do you write the scene without Michael going--

Javier & Leonard simultaneously: What is this place?

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: You know? Then have a monologue about what the hatch is because like- So again it's sort of part of that tightrope that we have to walk, which is to try to not have everybody explaining everything to everybody all the time, you know. And, you know, I think it's interesting, the guns are huge- gonna be a huge thing in the season. I think that there's a lot of argument about how to use the guns, when to use the guns and so forth. And it's interesting because we put this ticking time bomb of an armory in the middle of this very heated situation, you know.

Leonard Dick: Yeah.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: So a lot of the season is gonna have to do with sort of what do you do when you have a threat on you of diff- of all sorts of (???) and you have the option of being completely armed to face it or not.

Leonard Dick: And along with that is the evolution of Jack. Jack, who in the early episodes of Season 1 was vehemently opposed to the guns outside the case, and now here is Jack helping himself to the armory, obviously for a necessary goal, but just the fact that Jack is grabbing the guns and heading out, I thought was interesting.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: This is a great moment. And I love how, you know, when he says Ana Lucia, it's like Jack is just like we are. He is rewinding right back to that um...

Leonard Dick: 42F, tequila and tonic.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah, exactly. And that was actually in the stage directions for the show, you know, it's like when I first wrote the scene, it was, you know: Jack holds his head in his hands, it's all coming back to him, 42F tequila and tonic, the hard part's over. And that was of course cut--

[Leonard chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: --because even for a stage direction, it's pretty darn ham-fisted, so--

[Leonard chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: --I'm glad that if the script is ever published, that will not be there to shame me with my anvilicious prose, so... Uh, we're handing back the AK-47, which is good. The AK-47 was designed by Mikhail Kalashnikov in the Soviet Union. It's the world's most widely used automatic weapon. Did you know that, Leonard?

[Leonard chuckles]

Leonard Dick: Uh, no, but what I do know, Javi--

[Javier laughs]

Leonard Dick: --is that we finally have Ana Lucia and Sayid alone, and now we are building to what we hope would be the emotional money.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yes, a smackdown, as it were, between these two very passionate, very highly charged characters who have been through stuff that you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy's dog at this point. It's just horrible.

Leonard Dick: And one of the things I always like is that Sayid could easily have said, "Oh no, I won't kill you. I won't touch you." But he never says that.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: No.

Leonard Dick: And so the threat is always looming.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Lost is a show that's about messiness in a lot of ways, you know, we have characters who don't have emotions that are necessarily clear cut all the time. They fight with themselves as much they fight with each other. And I think Sayid generally- there's a part of Sayid in all this that wouldn't mind just, you know, aim the gun at Ana Lucia, after he'd seen Michael, after he'd seen Jin, he knew that this is not necessarily an Other, that they were traveling together, that other people were (???) so...

Leonard Dick: Right, and he is probably the smartest foe she's encountered, probably a lot smarter than the guy with the TV in the alleyway.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Oh absolutely, yes, I think we should just commit to that right now--

[Leonard chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: --before Naveen comes and kicks both our asses.

Leonard Dick: This was a really nice suggestion from Carlton and Damon to refer back to what Sayid did in Season 1, and it reminds us that Sayid is haunted by what he has done and what he did to Sawyer. It's always in the back of his mind, and it affects how he thinks, and I thought this was a very cool callback.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Well, you know, to coin a phrase, all of our characters have a history of violence, you know, be it emotional violence or relationship violence or violence that was brought on them, you know, cruelty that was brought upon them by their parents or actual physical violence. And I think that, you know, all of our characters have some great break in their past that's driven them over a certain edge, and they don't have the person on the Island that they need to confront in order to settle their issues, so they're sort of forced into conflict with each other, and, you know, the balance on the show is always: Will the person in the front story make the mistakes they made in their flashback, or will they overcome those mistakes? And I think with Sayid, for everything he did in the Gulf War, there's probably a lot of, um, you know, not making those mistakes again for him to do.

Leonard Dick: And will they wear a jaunty cravat along (???)

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yes, exactly, yes because if you're rectifying past mistakes, it's better to do it looking great, uh, preferably with a jaunty cravat.

Leonard Dick: Always go out in style.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: That's right, exactly. Which may not be the most appropriate thing to say because we just killed Shannon, but okay, let's just call that an unfortunate choice of (???). And this is nice because it's sort of a battle of the monologues, you know, both characters have a lot to download on each other in terms of where they're coming from, and it's interesting because this may be these two characters sort of finally coming to some kind of understanding with each other, and you know, I would have, if I were watching the show, I would want Sayid to be a big man and be forgiving, not a Big Mike, but a--

Javier & Leonard: [singing together] BIIIG MIIIKE

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Take a drink.

Leonard Dick: Everyone drink at home.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: --but a big man and forgive, and he can't, and that's what's interesting to me.

Leonard Dick: What I love about this scene in Michelle's performance in particular is Ana Lucia is finally coming clean to somebody, and she is coming clean to the person who wants to kill her, and there's something incredibly twisted, and it fits sort of the irrational behavior, which is actually somewhat rational through the course of the episode, but I actually really dug that encounter.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: This is Michelle with her game face on. She's- this is not a woman who's drinking for recreation here, and she wasn't drinking 'cause we sang the B.M. song.

Leonard Dick: Yes, it is not a coincidence that she is in this bar.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: No. And so we see the guy who shot her is leaving the bar. And this is, you know, when you wanna establish someone as a major badass, the best thing that they can do is just empty a clip into a guy.

[Leonard chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Frankly there is just no better way than to just, you know, put a bunch of shots in the dome (???)

Leonard Dick: Javi initially pitched ice cream parlor.

[Javier laughs]

Leonard Dick: But we thought that wouldn't work. This would probably be a little more foreboding.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: And here comes the big revelation of the episode...

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: [singing to the tune of Also sprach Zarathustra] dun... dun... dun... de-duh...

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Ohhh-kay, now we-

Leonard Dick: Now we know.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: And this goes back to the previous episode, which was, in which they asked her if she had kids. She said no. And there's a lot of other threads that this ties into, so now we know (???)

[talking over each other]

Leonard Dick: Why she asked Sayid earlier- she asked Sayid if he had kids.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Man, I love it that she empties that clip, man. That just- that gets me so excited because it's just- you know she was not there as a hidden cry for help, you know. [chuckles]

Leonard Dick: And as a parent, I empathize with her completely. It made perfect sense to me that she would take this extreme.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: As not a parent, I empathize with her completely too 'cause if somebody did that to me, I would be hard-pressed to not frag their rear end.

[Leonard chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: And the trailer for this episode, it's funny because they show this scene, and she comes to him with this makeshift knife and swings it down, and it cuts to black going LOST, and you're like, but the first scene in the episode is her- the first scene in the trailer was she shoots a gun in Sayid's direction. I'm like, she either knifed him or shot him, we can't have it both ways. We gotta figure out what we're doing in this trailer here. Hopefully, we had you caught, and you're here to watch the (???)

Leonard Dick: And now we see just how much she is hurting, how deep her pain goes, how complex she is. She is now giving him the gun.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah, these are two characters who are just tremendously rent in the inside, and the fact that they are capable functioning at all is interesting to me and the fact that this Island hasn't completely gotten them in touch with their dark side. Although in the case of Ana Lucia, you could argue that it absolutely has. It's just an interesting thing because they're out of civilization, and these two people could probably do whatever they wanted to each other out here. No one would know. And the fact that they get to this détente-

Leonard Dick: But that's what it is. It is détente, and it is unresolved, and uh...

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: And it will remain so for a while.

Leonard Dick: That's right. It will not- This is not a happy ending by any means.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah, I mean, that's the thing is that people may have messy emotions on the Island and so forth, and we capitalize on that. I think you're gonna see a lot of tension, not just between Sayid and Ana Lucia, but, you know, Ana Lucia is still Shannon's murderer, and I think that's gonna have a lot of blowback in upcoming episode. ... This is the second time I've seen Shannon dead on camera because we killed her in "Hearts and Minds," and the one thing that I just- I commend the makeup department for our show on just the incredible things that they do when we have some of the gor- Oh! Pause the uh, pause it. We'll be back.


Javier Grillo-Marxuach: And we're back. And shirtless Sawyer, you can't get enough of that.

[Leonard chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: I get emails from fans saying: more shirtless Sawyer, can it be the hour of Sawyer with no shirt on, you know, and if you're feeling really gentle, can you just have him strip down to his shorts? And we try to accommodate.

Leonard Dick: I love Evie's performance here.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: She's torn between Jack and Sawyer. I mean each of them is a half of the perfect man.

[long pause]

Leonard Dick: When we watch this in the dailies with no music, with nothing--

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Oh my god.

Leonard Dick: --we broke down.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: It's so sad. You cannot-

Leonard Dick: There's no more tangible reminder of Michael's loss.

[long pause]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Giacchino, I cannot say enough good things about Michael Giacchino. The music just sends it right over, and this is probably the first time I've seen this episode that I haven't wept like a baby because it is just so... this reunion, we've been waiting for it for so long. Even we as writers of the show get emotionally involved with what's happening, and we finally see this.


Leonard Dick: (???)

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: And Rose, now finally she's finding Bernard, and it is just- even for us, again, as writers, it's still cathartic because it is such an emotional moment, you know. And, you know, it's interesting, you know, Jin sort of being welcomed as sort of a hero, even though the raft failed. It's just a really touching moment where, you know, it's good that our Lost family's finally together, you know. And here we go. Here we go. Look at the hairs on the back of my neck are standing up. It's just such a touching moment. I've been waiting for this, you know, I started working on Lost before the pilot was finished, before they were finished writing the pilot. And uh- and Bernard and Rose...

Leonard Dick: I believe that Scott and Sam are a happily married couple.

[Javier chuckles]

Leonard Dick: This is just wonderful.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Well, you know, the interracial thing, it was never an issue, but it was a nice sort of curveball that we tried to throw the audience because I think that everybody expected Bernard to be a black man, just, you know, because of convention or whatever, and it's kind of nice to just be able to say, you know, here we go, and not make a big fuss about it. It's just there. And those of you who are confused by it, you know, we got you, and it's great, you know. And this, you know, Yunjin, no dialogue, just her face, and she's just so fantastic.

Leonard Dick: And this is the hero run by Daniel.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah.

Leonard Dick: I fell in love with Daniel there.

[Javier chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: You expect him to be sort of walking away from the wreckage of a jet plane with a cigar, kind of like Chuck Yeager in The Right Stuff, you know.

Leonard Dick: Think about how far these two have come.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Oh my god, yeah. And, you know, I mean, we wrote "In Translation" together and the whole, you know, thing of how their marriage fell apart. I mean, I feel very bonded to these characters, and to be able to, as a writer, be one of the people who brought this relationship to closure is very fulfilling for me personally as well because it's like we've really gone all the way with them from just a marriage that was falling apart to what we just saw on the screen.

Leonard Dick: This final sequence I'm absolutely in love with, and it's entirely on the actor's faces.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah.

Leonard Dick: And the expressions sell it all.


Javier Grillo-Marxuach: My god, there's a lot to feel here because everything that's happened to these people and to Ana Lucia, I mean, you can see the sense of shame in Michelle's face, and she just played this very nicely, and just, you know, Sayid's sorrow, I mean it's just a really fan- And also kudos to Stephen Williams. I think the way that this is staged with that sort of line of the three characters going back into the background of the scene and the reveal of Ana Lucia here, it's really fantastically well done.

Leonard Dick: Here we go, 42F, tequila and tonic.

Javier & Leonard: Hard part's over.

[Javier laughs]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: But really this is the culmination of something we established at the end of last season, and one of the great things about writing for Lost is that we set stuff up very early on. You know, part of our strategy is that we really make a lot of decisions early in the process so that we can do the kinds of things like paying them off ten episodes later, you know, this was- these people haven't seen each other for fifty-some-odd days, since the flashback. And I love how LOST comes up.

[Leonard chuckles]

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Like in the writers room, we'll be pitching an act five, and we'll be like: Ana Lucia steps out of the woods, Jack sees her--

?: *pfff*


Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah, exactly. So, I don't know, Leonard, is there anything else you'd like to share with the audience as they gear up to watch a fantastic episode of Invasion?

Leonard Dick: Uh... no, I think this was a really fun episode to write. It was great for us because we got to reunite the camps in the messiest way possible with huge personal conflict. I thought- the other thing I thought was interesting is that people were waiting to find out what is Ana Lucia all about or what makes- or at least what's sort of that first level of what makes her tick, and I thought that the story that our group came up with was a very compelling story.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Yeah, I think, you know, and also any script that turns out well is a credit not just to the writers but also to the writers room, and we come up with these stories collectively obviously, so a little bit of a word of thanks to them for all their support--

Leonard Dick: Absolutely.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: --(???). And I think before we go, there's one thing that we have to do that, you know, just click off after this, but, uh, I don't think we can go without singing the Big Mike song one last time. Ready? One, two, three--

Javier & Leonard: [singing together] BIIIG MIIIKE

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Take a drink, thank you.

Leonard Dick: So have a happy Thanksgiving or as we in Canada call it--

Javier & Leonard: Thursday

Javier Grillo-Marxuach: Bye-bye.