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Brazilian Portuguese?[]

The sentence that Naomi speaks after being treated by Mikhail, Eu não estou só, was incorrectly stated as being pronounced with brazilian accent. While I cant say if it has an European (i.e. Portugal's) accent, its surely not brazilian. As a matter of fact, is quite close to the Portuguese the two guys at the listening station spoke.LtDoc 17:33, 29 April 2007 (PDT)

Well. If the Portuguese isn't Brazilian or European, then how about Macau? Anyone here recognize a Macau accent? How many other varieties of Portuguese are there? Here is a link to a map (Map of Portuguese Colonization), and a list of former Portuguese colonies Apparently there are thirty-three Portuguese dialects listed in this link to Wikipedia. Several are in India, where some former Portuguese colonies existed. Is the Hanso Foundation in India? --Victorcoutin 11:32, 2 May 2007 (PDT)
There is a discussion of Portuguese (Brazilian vs Non-Brazilian/Non-European) continued here: Portuguese Language.--Victorcoutin 12:48, 2 May 2007 (PDT)

Daniel Dae Kim-Jin and Sun flashbacks[]

Daniel Dae Kim has said, in two different interviews, that D.O.C. is a Jin and Sun flashback episode. We had a similar problem regarding Elizabeth Mitchell confirming Not in Portland as a Juliet flashback episode. In the end, we changed it from unconfirmed to Juliet like three days before airing. Should the flashback be changed for this episode as well? ShadowUltra 13:35, 9 April 2007 (PDT)

It already says possibly Jin and Sun flashback. We can't put it as a definite until we know for sure, released by ABC so at the moment the possibly is the best we can do. -Mr.Leaf 14:16, 9 April 2007 (PDT)
We already know for sure, DDK has confirmed it on-camera, in interviews. Rumor sites aren't good enough, but a clip of the actor saying it certainly is. --Minderbinder 14:01, 16 April 2007 (PDT)
We use ABC Medianet as our official source. Unless the information is released through Medianet it is not official even through interviews with the actors.-Mr.Leaf 14:07, 16 April 2007 (PDT)
That's what the template says, but I think that's out of date and seems like more of an arbitrary decision than a useful one. There was discussion at Lostpedia talk:Spoiler Policy (proposed) about changing this which I've brought up again there. --Minderbinder 14:58, 16 April 2007 (PDT)
I like how it was done with this episode, when it is confirmed it only says "confirmed" and you can select it if you wish. I like not knowing weeks in advance, so I appreciate it not being posted where you have to look.

Also, would one really call this a Sun AND Jin flashback? We never see anything from Jin's perspective or anything. Voodoo 20:57, 25 April 2007 (PDT)

placeholder image[]

Here's last week's promo pic, with the full cast. Anyone want to change the placeholder image to this until the airing? (Isolation815 17:50, 10 April 2007 (PDT))

Sea3casta
  • Please, no. That's such a horrible, obviously photoshopped picture. Let's stick to the current one. Tehr 15:19, 11 April 2007 (PDT)
  • That really is awful--Jazza|talk|Contributions 15:11, 20 April 2007 (PDT)


    • Agreed, I think the old one is fine for this Season. Naturally for S4, we'll have a new one, but like with S1 and S2, we just used one generic one --Nickb123 (Talk) 09:45, 25 April 2007 (PDT)
  • LOL at the water level above their knees in front of them and ocean foam behind them :D -- LOSTonthisdarnisland 01:46, 18 April 2008 (PDT)

Flashback confirmed?[]

Quote from latest flashback:

Carlton: When are we going to get back to the whole pregnant women dying on the Island... Damon: ...I think we're going to be getting back to that the week after next... Just to pre pre-has, a double pre-hash, an episode called D.O.C. which features our favorite Sun and Jin...

Its a bit of a, could just mean they're in the episode, but considering the guest list etc, I think this qualifies as officially confirmed. Comments? --Nickb123 (Talk) 10:44, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

It has already been officially confirmed by Daniel Dae Kim. It's a bit ridiculous to not accept information directly from people working on the show and having a medianet fetish. --Minderbinder 11:21, 17 April 2007 (PDT)
It's been confirmed by many people, including the producers. That's all the confirmation I need.--Berethor222 11:24, 17 April 2007 (PDT)
The reason I think the actor thing isn't accepted in cause they're cast, not production. Sometimes episode titles change and episode numbers are filmed in different orders (though I guess not so much on Lost). I think in this case there's enough evidence, but I agree with the policy about actor comments being seen as strong evidence (enough to add "Flashback: Possibly...."), but not the most solid source to put a full confirmation. --Nickb123 (Talk) 11:26, 17 April 2007 (PDT)
That's true, things can change. But as we have seen, the producers and even medianet can release info that changes later. Nothing is 100% certain until the episode airs. But the point of using official sources isn't 100% accuracy (since that's impossible because even ABC either makes mistakes or people change their minds) but to have info that is confirmed to come from the show and not anonymous stuff from a rumor site. I've tried to restart discussion at Lostpedia talk:Spoiler Policy (proposed)#Spoiler template revisited if anyone is interested. --Minderbinder 12:59, 17 April 2007 (PDT)
I like the idea of adding "comfirmed" with a link to the character's article, but the D.O.C. link heads to a non existant place (D.O.C.#Flashback) instead of Jin or Sun's article. ShadowUltra 14:03, 18 April 2007 (PDT)
It is not non existent. Click the link and it will show the Flashback line of the infobox at the very top of your screen, usually it will be top right depending on your monitor. Because we can't link to both Sun and Jin's article with one link, we link to the anchored point in the infobox, where users can read the FB characters and then go to either Sun or Jin's pages. -Mr.Leaf 14:44, 18 April 2007 (PDT)
On my screen it doesn't even move, the whole page is displayed already. I also thought it was a dead link. --SDSpivey 09:44, 19 April 2007 (PDT)
In my opinion, getting the centric episode wrong is no big deal at all. The worst that could happen say if despite the guest star clues the wrong person is stated, is that the person watching the episode will go "Oh, right" when they see its another persons centric episode. Really doesnt matter that much as long as its correct once all the episode details have been filled in after the airing. (Arjayoh 06:40, 21 April 2007 (PDT))
I don't understand why it says "confirmed" instead of listing Jin & Sun, just like it does for The Glass Ballerina on this page's header already.SDSpivey 22:06, 24 April 2007 (PDT)
The reason is because people complained that it was a spoiler and that it should only actually say "Sun and Jin" when the episode has aired. Its fair comment as the DOC article itself is marked as SPOILER, but we cant mark the template as spoiler as it links to so many pages. So, we compromised and put just "Confirmed" and so if you click that you'll be linked to the correct character to tell you. The reason it doesn't work with Sun and Jin this week is that you can't link one word, "confirmed", to BOTH Sun and Jin's articles, can you. So instead we've had to just link it back to the page under the subsection #flashback. --Nickb123 (Talk) 09:44, 25 April 2007 (PDT)
This is a cool feature, I appreciate not having the flashbacks spoiled (they usually end up being spoiled anyway), but currently I don't know whos flashback is next week, and I really enjoy not knowing and having it not plastered on the top of the page really helps. Voodoo 21:00, 25 April 2007 (PDT)

Podcast confirmations[]

Who else thinks...[]

That Sun and Jin episodes are not terrible, but just boring? -- Iron Man  Send a message  View contributions  10:58, 22 April 2007 (PDT)

  • I enjoy the Sun/Jin flash-backs. Personally I've found just about every single Kate flash-back to be the "boring" ones, or at least the ones this season. Frankie Viturello 19:56, 22 April 2007 (PDT)
  • I like sun and jin episodes. i think their back story is very romantic and interesting. - platypusrex april 23 2007
  • You find them boring cause theres not alot of mystery about them. The more unsolved there is about the char the more popular they are!--Hit and miss 14:24, 23 April 2007 (PDT)
  • Wasn't that just Sun? I don't recall any Jin flashbacks... This should be fixed. Evil-pineapples 20:28, 25 April 2007 (PDT)
  • No, this is the discussion page....--Mirthlesssmile 20:01, 26 April 2007 (PDT)
  • That would be called "discussing", Vic. Sharing your personal opinions is fine on the discussion page. Evil-pineapples 15:51, 28 Apr
Generally discussion pages should be used to discuss the content of the article, but we have no absolute rule about it. I highly suggest you try out our forums though if you want an extended converstation.    Jabberwock    talk    contribs    email   - 09:23, 1 May 2007 (PDT)
Thanks for clearing the air. I get the point. I was wondering why that Flight 815 topic below seemed kind of long, & considered cutting it out and pasting to another place on this site. Like my individual 'talk' page, since it's largely only between two members on this board. I am very new to this site, thanks for shining the light of reason on me. --Victorcoutin 09:48, 1 May 2007 (PDT)

The Jin and Sun epsiodes have been particular popular especially among women and, not surprisingly, Koreans. They are underrepresented in mainstream television. My old Korean roommate actually brought them up with me.--Lucky Day 18:20, 1 May 2007 (PDT)

Flight 815 Crash: "Real" V.S. "Island"[]

So... they found the fricken plane. How is that possible? Do you think they found the REAL flight 815 or is the real 815 on the island and the outside world set it up? And who is "they?" Hanso, Widmore? AH, I'm still hyperventilating... (Isolation815 20:09, 25 April 2007 (PDT))

Or was the half dead girl who can't decide which language she is speaking mixing her words up and not telling the entire truth? A plane crashing into the ocean would sink, except for small pieces, which could have floated away from the island. The rescuers find these small pieces, say everyone is dead and then try to find the rest of the plane 2 km below the surface. -Mr.Leaf 20:11, 25 April 2007 (PDT)
Sorry, this seems unlikely. First of all, her story matches what we were told in a "news" article online back in season 1 (about how some fishermen found the debris - anyone remember this besides me? anyone have a link to it, maybe?). Second, she wasn't exactly just some random shlub - she's working for Penny, who obviously has a vested interest in the situation. Naomi, therefore, also has more at stake than to "mix up her words" or leave out important details. Something, it seems, is going on off the island with regards to this flight. -larryniven
The plane that was found was most likely part of a cover-up to conceal the real Flight 815 plane's whereabouts. Which suggests that the plane's crashing was deliberate, which makes sense given all the connections between the Losties, etc.
I'll never believe the plane was crashed on purpose until it is shown without a shadow of a doubt. I think the plane found was a fake, in order to keep search parties from sniffing around the Island's location. Sure it can't be found very easily, but it CAN be found (Desmond and Naomi prove this).--Loki 20:30, 25 April 2007 (PDT)
It was only found once and that required the implosion of the Swan. There may be multiple people who knew the coordinates before and after the discharge but the method Naomi used to find the island is unlikely to work again. Dharmatel4 21:06, 25 April 2007 (PDT)
Mikhail came because he saw the flare. He was probably looking for the Others, who all left Otherville earlier. Perhaps he knew about their plans to leave, and had an agreement to meet them after they signal for him. Whoever is supporting the Others can pull a great many strings...perhaps they own their own salvage company. They could dropped a wrecked plane fuselage in the ocean, took pictures with a submersible, and showed the pictures to the media. Plenty of ships crash, but rarely are they actually brought back to the surface, nor are bodies ever found. It is very plausible that the plane crash was faked.--Loki 18:18, 26 April 2007 (PDT)
If that's the case, there's only one way I can think of now to explain the situation according to my theory: the Others covertly recovered several small pieces of the fuselage, enough to incontrovertibly prove that it came from 815, gave these pieces to their outside contact sometime before the events of "Live Together, Die Alone" and then made a mock up of dredging the pieces from the sea floor. If ONLY a few small pieces were recovered, and these pieces were stamped with 815's serial numbers, it's not hard to fathom that no one survived. This also leads us to believe that Michael has NOT returned home, as it seems very unlikely that his return after 2+ months would go completely unnoticed.--Loki 13:16, 30 April 2007 (PDT)
Well, keep in mind our source: some women whom we know nothing about, that dropped out of the sky and just had a punctured lung not even an hour ago. My gut tells me that she isn't simply "mistaken", because this would be a really cheap and stupid shot by the writers. "Yeah, here's a MAJOR cliffhanger, but you'll find out in the next episode that it's a lie because that character was confused!" Sounds like really poor writing to me. Also, I think you are placing too much importance on Flight 815. Sure, it's important from OUR perspective, but from the rest of the world's? Pretty much just another plane crash. There are things out there a WHOLE lot more mysterious than a plane going down over the ocean with only a few recovered parts. There's a whole squadron of WWII fighters that disappeared over the Bermuda Triangle, with NOTHING left of them. It's not like this plane was carrying the leaders of every free country in the world or anything. As for Naomi's wording on "they found the plane" and "all passengers dead", this could just be an error in speech. She speaks five or six languages, correct? And it seems as though English, while spoken well, is not her first language? I'll concede her speech to be a mistranslation/misinterpretation.
As for Walt and Michael...I see no reason why they would be in hiding, unless they were picked up by Hanso/Others, and this again lends to my theory that the Others are going to great lengths to keep their Island hidden. Maybe Michael ran out of gas and got stuck on ANOTHER island? :) And c'mon, imagine you're on a plane that broke into several pieces in midair, crashed on an island, and you lived. Over two months later, you finally return to civilization. Even if YOU choose to not go to the media, someone will find out who you are and they will. Some one who knows Michael, family members, lawyer, boss, SOMEONE knows he was on Flight 815, which apparently lost all aboard. And you mean to tell me that no one Michael knows would tell someone else about his return? Michael is either: in complete hiding, which I can't think of a reason for; captured by OtherFriendlies; dead; still at sea. I see no other logical paths. --Loki 15:48, 30 April 2007 (PDT)
Per the October 3, 2006 podcast, Michael and Walt will return in Season 3. So we know they are not dead, and probably not still at sea. They say what happened to Michael and Walt was "very compelling"... being in "complete hiding" doesn't seems very compelling.Bird1234 18:45, 30 April 2007 (PDT)

You do recall the fuselage being pulled away by the tide in Season 1 right? And assuming that the sub really can leave the island, it would make sense that anything underwater is unaffected by the "snowglobe" barrier around the island. Thus, it is my theory that the plane was whisked away via ocean to God knows where and found (obviously) with no survivors. Evil-pineapples 20:29, 25 April 2007 (PDT)

That's what I thought at first, but it seems like an incredible stretch that the fuselage would drift that far out without being towed. I suppose it's possible the Others recovered the fuselage and transported it before they lost the use of the underwater beacon. --Loki 20:33, 25 April 2007 (PDT)
But, Arntz said that it was Monsoon season, so rough waters, could have moved the plane far away from the island. Just a thought. Keyura 06:22, 26 April 2007 (PDT)

The plane crashed, it is found an unknown amount of time later, then Penny sends Naomi after Desmond. While searching for Desmond, Naomi unknowingly travels back in time to 90 days after the plane crash.--Austin2179 20:46, 25 April 2007 (PDT)

Dont forget that the tail is in the water also --Project X 03:16, 26 April 2007 (PDT)


Michael and Walt supposedly left the island. What information have they relayed to the outside world? Bird1234 12:30, 26 April 2007

Michael does seems to exhibit a "me-first" attitude, so as far not not talking to anyone for risk of endangering his own safety, I can see that. But what threat is he really under? He did kill two of the Losties... maybe he takes the risk they will not rat him out if he leads to their rescue?Bird1234 18:45, 30 April 2007 (PDT)

No amount of tide or rough waters will move large pieces of the aircraft significant distances from the Island. And even if they did, it would be almost impossible to locate the pieces of an airliner on the bottom of the ocean without some degree of information to narrow the search.
Faking a crash would be very difficult (near impossible) because the relivant governments and agencies in such situations try to recover every single piece of the plane they can. Faking the crash would require multiple companies and governments to be complicit in the fake (hundreds of people). You would be talking a very large conspiracy. It might be possible to have a substitute (or real) flight recorder be accidentally found somewhere while the rest of the wreckage is assumed to be lost in deep water. But finding actual wreckage would require arrangements that seem to elaborate to be practical. Dharmatel4 09:46, 26 April 2007 (PDT)
Agreed. It follows then that there are two possibilities: 1) Naomi is lying about the flight having been found; 2) A supernatural occurance. There are two parallel copies of the same plane (flight 815).----Victorcoutin 10:52, 26 April 2007 (PDT)
She is lying Remember Bad Twin
"Bad Twin was delivered to Hyperion just days before Troup boarded Oceanic Flight 815, which was lost in flight from Sydney, Australia to Los Angeles in September 2004. He remains missing and is presumed dead. In addition to his many novels of mystery and crime, Gary Troup authored several non-fiction books including "The Valenzetti Equation." His disappearance is mourned by all who knew him and enjoyed his work."--Tbomb4000 08:51, 28 April 2007 (PDT)
Others could have easily pulled the black box from the cockpit for the deep water scenario.--Spiral 12:45, 27 April 2007 (PDT)


Was there a "Lost Experience" website for Oceanic Air? I seem to remember something about Oceanic losing multiple planes. So rather than Naomi lying, she could just be confused.--Eyeful Tower 15:23, 26 April 2007 (PDT)

Regarding one of the comments above: Penny does not have a vested interest in knowing about Oceanic 815. Her concern is finding Desmond, who disappeared 3 years (?) before the crash of 815. She has no idea the two events are related. If Naomi is working for Penny, she has no reason to be a Flight 815 "expert."--Eyeful Tower 15:23, 26 April 2007 (PDT)

No one said she was an expert. I think that if a plane carrying 300 people was on it's way here and it crashed, I would remember that flight number and the outcome years leter, just like I can remember all the flight numbers from 9/11 and where they took off from.--Austin2179 15:44, 29 April 2007 (PDT)
Wrong situation. Penny has a vested situation in the island. When an airplane disappears off radar screens near this island, you don't think she'd be keeping tabs of some sort? And nobody said Naomi would be an expert, just working for someone who has reason to be. Or, do you want to explain why someone who's almost certainly not American or Australian would know about a flight between those two countries? I guarantee you it wouldn't be huge international news. Really, though, all of that was secondary and speculative - I do specifically remember the news articles talking about the recovery of flight 815 and I really would appreciate it if someone could point me to them. I think, for what it's worth, that they're related to what EyefulTower is talking about. Thanks -larryniven

Yes, this is correct. Desmond was not on 815, he sailed and crashed on the island. Is it really beyond the Others to stage a flight crash though? Assuming they have some reason of keeping these people on the island, and having no one looking for them. shrodes 18:20, 26 April 2007 (PDT)

Doesn't her statement just help fuel the Puratory theory?--Lucky Day 18:06, 1 May 2007 (PDT)

Before the Listening Station notifed Penny of the Electromagnetic Anomaly (that we associate with the discharge from Desmond activating the Failsafe), one of the listeners says, "We missed it again". Missed what again? The only EM anomalies I can think of are the System Failures in One OF Them and Live Together Die Alone. The one in Desmond's flashback is associated with the crash of Oceanic 815. This gives Penny a link between an EM Anomaly and the disappearance of Oceanic 815. Burt Gummer

FLT 815 Crashed on the Island[]

We know the plane crashed on the island in the first episode. Naomi said FLT 815 was found, and "they were all dead." She is either mistaken or lying. We know the wreckage is on the island and the plane going down on the island has been shown in numerous episodes. The survivors are on the island. --Victorcoutin 14:39, 30 April 2007 (PDT)

FLT 815 Crashed Elsewhere[]

This topic is saying the plane DID NOT crash on the island. It crashed, but it crashed somewhere else. For this to happen, all the episodes showing the plane going down on the island must be explained away. Either the island crash is some elaborate illusion, or dream, or hallucination. It would have fooled all the castaways, the Others & Ben, etc.. Also, all the castaways on the island must have gotten to the island in some way other than by way of Flight 815 crashing. The castaways were brought to the island somehow, but not by the way it's been shown throughout the entire series. --Victorcoutin 14:47, 30 April 2007 (PDT)

FLT 815 Crashed Both on the Island & Elsewhere[]

Both the crash on the island and the crash elsewhere really happened. This cannot be explained by any normal logic. The only explanations are supernatural occurrences; a parallel edition of Flight 815 that somehow existed before the crash, and both crashes occurred, one on the island, one elsewhere (supernatural occurrence); an alternate timeline caused two crashes in two different places of the same flight (supernatural occurrence); many other possibilities (supernatural occurrences). --Victorcoutin 14:58, 30 April 2007 (PDT)

What Naomi said[]

Anyone translate what Naomi said, translated by Mikhail as "Thank you.." (etc.)?--moss ryder 20:20, 25 April 2007 (PDT)

Unfortunatly the Italians are way behind the United States in terms of what episode they're on right now... so unless there's someone in America/Canada/UK that speaks Italian and happens to frequent Lostpedia, we're out of luck. I'd love to know what she said though. They emphasized it too much for it to actually have meant just "thank you". Evil-pineapples 20:32, 25 April 2007 (PDT)

  • "Gratzi" means "thank you" in Italian. What she said sounded nothing like it. --Ohmyn0 (talk) 20:34, 25 April 2007 (PDT)

You all may now it already, but the subtitles were "(speaking Portuguese)". I believe it's an error though. Was Naomi speaking Portuguese or Spanish at the beginning of the episode? --Loki 20:45, 25 April 2007 (PDT)

  • She said: "Eu não estou só" which is Portuguese (she spoke with a Brazilian accent). It means: "I am not alone". Cryptonic 20:51, 25 April 2007 (PDT)
So she spoke Spanish "Me estoy muriendo. (I'm dying.)", then something in Chinese, then something in Italian (Mikhail translated as "I'm dying."), then Brazilian Portuguese "Eu não estou só. (I am not alone)", and finally talked to Hurley in English. Could someone figure out what she really said in Chinese and Italian please? --Samideano 20:58, 25 April 2007 (PDT)
Maybe it's because I know Italian and not Portuguese, but to me it sounded like she said, "Egli non è stesso," which means "He is not himself." Dairhenien 13:42, 26 April 2007 (PDT)
The subtitle says "aiutame. sto morendo." This means "Help me. I'm dying" in Italian. --Pedxing 21:33, 25 April 2007 (PDT)
  • "Smells like carrots" ;-) --Jackdavinci 00:39, 26 April 2007 (PDT) seriously though looks like we've got everything except the Chinese.
  • I think at the end she was talking with a british accent (Penny connection!!!), did any accent-pro come to the same conclusion?
Since Marsha Thomason was born in England, I would say yes, that was a British accent.--Eyeful Tower 17:00, 26 April 2007 (PDT)
  • Being English myself, I can confirm that she was speaking English with an English accent.--Unyon 23:13, 26 April 2007 (PDT)
  • Can we kill this topic yet? The main page seems to have every issue on the languages resolved (languages). Am I wrong? --Victorcoutin 09:30, 27 April 2007 (PDT)
  • I'm Italian so if you need some help I'm here.

The girl said "aiutami, sto... sto morendo" which is the right way to say "help me, I'm... I'm going to die". Naomi speaks italian clearly, but her pronunciation of the letters "t" and "r" makes me think that she's probably English (maybe with latin parents). Then, the right word to say "thank you" in Italian is "grazie"; but Mikahil lied, Naomi didn't say it, she wasn't speaking italian, in my opinion it was spanish or portuguese.

Dairhenien said that it could be "egli non è stesso", 

it sounds like it a little bit. But I can assure you she isn't speaking italian, because it would also be gramatically wrong: the right italian would be "egli non è sè stesso". I translate in english both of them to make you understarnd the mistake: " he's not self" (which doesn't make sense), the right one is "he's not himself"... but I tell you again, this time Naomi was speaking spanish or portudguese and Mikahil's translation is a lie.

Timeline[]

Juliet claims it was "90 days ago" when they crashed in the second day of this episode. The baby was conceived "about 8 weeks ago" or "53 days". She later says (into the recorder) that it is Saturday. So the 90 days must be a rough number - it's really day 88, which was a Saturday. And the conception would be roughly day 35, during "Numbers". --Pedxing 20:44, 25 April 2007 (PDT)

There is no way to pin it down to an exact day. Its at *least* plus or minus a week around day 35. Dharmatel4 20:48, 25 April 2007 (PDT)
I don't quite get the math...8 weeks would be 56 days, not 53. Also interesting because the show implied that Sun and Jin didn't reconcile (have sex) until "What Kate Did" (day 49). In terms of the flashback, anyone catch a date on that wedding announcement? --Jackdavinci 00:21, 26 April 2007 (PDT)
Apparently you haven't been pregnant, had kids, or know anyone close to you who has had kids. They don't talk days. They base it on the last period and the size. Having gone through this twice in the last decade I would think that this is *normal* but everyone is titled to their own opinion, rationalization or otherwise achieved realization. Lostfan612 00:44, 26 April 2007 (PDT)
The math was wrong. Sun and Jin can be assumed to not be having sex from Day 33 - Day 49. She asked for a pregnancy test at day 60. 88-56 puts us at day 32. Given Jin is the father, that suggests conception between maybe day 24 and day 32. Dharmatel4 00:52, 26 April 2007 (PDT)
Yes but it's not a SCIENCE believe it or not. You come within 2 weeks. So she's really 6-8 weeks pregnant. --Lostfan612 01:09, 26 April 2007 (PDT)
Neither '6-8 weeks' nor '35 days +/- a week' are any help to us. They give D.O.C. as day 32 to day 46, or day 28 to day 42 respectively. In either case, Jin & Sun were definitely estranged from day 32 (...In Translation) to day 48 (Collision), and weren't exactly getting on like a house on fire immediately before day 32. While we know that Sun definitely conceived on the island, the exact timing is still a close run thing. Burt Gummer

Abortion[]

Surely Juliet is capable of giving Sun an abortion. If the baby is doomed to die with sun in the 2nd trimester I see no reason why this hasn't been addressed... except that it isn't Kosher to talk about things like this on network television. Sign of the times I guess. With all this talk of pregnancy it will be disappointing if no one brings this up to me, even in passing. congested 20:52, 25 April 2007 (PDT)

Do we really know the baby is doomed? We know that Juliet said she lost 9 patients who I would assume are the mothers. The middle of the second trimester is the threshold for viability for a baby born early. Especially on an island where bodies repair themselves quicker than in the "real world", is it possible that the babies live?
Considering Juliet spent 3 years trying to save women who were horrified to find out they were pregnant, I assume they tried abortion at some point. However, that's not important anymore. It's the conception that screws them, doesn't matter what they do after that, they'll die. --Sauron18 21:40, 25 April 2007 (PDT)
Still odd that no one brings it up. Yes, I see that it is conception that "screws" the mothers but what's to say an abortion couldn't resolve the problem? Has Juliet tried it or not? I think that's a very reasonable question for them to answer. If they never address the abortion thing then I think it's safe to assume that they don't want to deal with the controversy given all that's been going on with abortion in the US recently (and not so recently.) I also think it's safe to assume that if the mothers die that early the baby dies too. The earliest you can remove a baby and have it survive is at the end of the 2nd trimester, and even if they removed it just before/as the mother is dying the baby would need top-level medical care, which I doubt the others have if they don't even have a working defibrillator. Doesn't Juliet tell Sun that mothers only make it half way through the 2nd trimester (about 5 months in)?? If so then it is safe to assume the baby dies too. congested 22:50, 25 April 2007 (PDT)
Further evidence that the baby is "doomed": Juliet says that if Sun concieved off-island her "and your (Sun's) baby will probably be okay." Congested 19:39, 26 April 2007 (PDT)
Let's assume that Juliet knows how to give an abortion (fertility doctors & most MD's probably do). She cannot give Sun the abortion. She is under orders from Ben We can assume that Ben won't approve abortions to save anyone's life, all of Juliet's patients have died. Let's assume that Jack knows how to give an abortion. Once he learns that Sun is apparently doomed to die in two months (dialog with Juliet and Sun stipulated this), he will insist on giving Sun the abortion. It's not even a question of "what if or not?" Jack will 'insist' on giving Sun an abortion, he is not about to experiment with Sun's life. Maybe this is the answer to rumors about Jack getting killed, the Others will kill Jack to stop him from aborting Sun's pregnancy? --Victorcoutin 09:46, 27 April 2007 (PDT)

It is fairly safe to assume that the Others are, in some way or another, involved in some sort of scientific endeavor and pregnancy may very well be a part of that. Clearly, the Staff Hatch is prepared for pregnant women. It could be that the Others are interested in scientifically studying the effect the island has on pregnant women, and abortion would definitely hamper that study. Also, if the Others have any interest in establishing a separate, viable society on the island, abortion would probably be not be something they were particularly interested in. Finally, if the Others know that pregnancy kills the mothers and they can't afford to sacrifice them, why wouldn't they just quit getting pregnant? As complicated as their society is, they probably could develop some method of birth control. I basically think that the story behind this whole Pregnancy deal is a little bit too complicated, and that, frankly, abortion is a far too convenient (and conventional) solution--nothing is that simple or normal on the Island.--Booninite 12:55, 26 April 2007 (PDT)

Yeah, I agree with all that. But still would like to see it come up at some point Congested 19:39, 26 April 2007 (PDT)
Since Juliet had a fling with Goodwin it's pretty clear the Others are practicing birth control. If she wants to get off the Island alive she wouldn't wanted to conceive on it.--Lucky Day 14:53, 28 April 2007 (PDT)

Most of the religion of the show is Catholic. The Catholic view on birth control and abortion might want to be view more in order to understand why this would not be an option. --Et Shadow 16:51, 26 April 2007 (PDT)

Call it Naomi's crash?[]

The title for a section on the article page is called "Naomi's crash". Should this be used because her name hasn't been said in the show yet and could confuse many people and act as a potential spoiler for those who don't want to know about her yet. Should it not instead be called something like "Parachute Crash Site" or something? Voodoo 20:53, 25 April 2007 (PDT)

Naomi is listed in the credits so it's not really a spoiler, but "Parachute Crash Site" sounds better editorially. --Jackdavinci 22:08, 25 April 2007 (PDT)

Is Naomi pregnant?[]

I was intrigued by the cut from Juliet, who just said all the pregnant women die, to the almost-dead Naomi. I wonder if this was foreshadowing or just juxtaposition... --Pedxing 21:27, 25 April 2007 (PDT)

Mikhail[]

When Mikhail takes the phone, its obvious he intends to use it, he was the communications expert. However, this leads one to wonder about whether or not he knew Naomi, or if he was just in the area for random reasons or because of the flare. However, we know he knows how to use the phone. Additionally, if he knew he died, what does that tell us about how he...came back? Keyura 22:06, 25 April 2007 (PDT)

I would suspect that Mikhail was sent to investigate what happened with the Helicopter. He showed up at that specific location because Hurley shot off the flare. On the phone, he took it to keep it away from them. I think his coming back shows that the fence isn't lethal and that his injuries were healed quickly by the island. Dharmatel4 22:16, 25 April 2007 (PDT)
If I remember correctly, kate checked his pulse. Can anyone confirm this? Keyura 22:20, 25 April 2007 (PDT)
Nope, she just rolls him over and looks at him. congested 22:56, 25 April 2007 (PDT)
Maybe the Mikhail in D.O.C. wasn't Mikhail at all, what if it was the shape changing smoke-monster? Martian 15:10, 26 April 2007 (GMT)
Could it be that the Sonic Barrier merely sends a human into a state of coma, rather than death? Marky-Son 10:30, 26 April 2007 (PDT)
Its possible of course, but if a sonic wave hits you and blows out your eardrums or something similar to what happened to Mikhail, should be a very painful and sound death. Much like being subjected to 150dB of sound. Keyura 15:25, 26 April 2007 (PDT)
Are there two Mikhails? Is this a blooper? (Keyura, seems to be a discussion more of Mikhail, I've changed the topic heading).--Victorcoutin 08:26, 27 April 2007 (PDT)
Did the podcast say Carton Cuse "didn't like the idea" of the theory that Mikhail actually died?--Lucky Day 17:45, 1 May 2007 (PDT)

Sun Hires a P.I. to Check Up on Jin - Finds Mr. Kwon (Jin's Dad)[]

Sun has a dossier containing a map and a photo of Jin's dad. It's not shown in the episode where she hired a private eye to find him. She hired the P.I. after meeting the older woman. The P.I. gave her the photo of Mr. Kwon and the map. Sun arranged to have the dossier prepared in English. Since the dossier is in English, the P.I. is either not Korean or is an English speaking Korean. Jin can not speak or read English. Victorcoutin 08:05, 26 April 2007 (PDT)

Sun located Mr. Kwon REALLY quickly. It is believable that she really didn't know he was alive. She had "3 days" to get the money, and she managed to get that dossier, go talk to him, go to her father, talk to Jin at home, all in that time. She's got a really good PI! --Pedxing 08:19, 26 April 2007 (PDT)
Sun doesn't yet speak or read English, either. Laura1013 01:13, 27 April 2007
Better resolution scan of the map shows what I have heard elsewhere, confirming that English is mixed in with modern Korean regularly. Sun's P.I. didn't prepared the dossier in English. So the P.I. is probably just a regular Korean citizen as far as English is concerned. --Victorcoutin 09:06, 27 April 2007 (PDT)

Items Removed from the Theories Page[]

The following are pure speculation or lack any evidence: (Removed by Frosty yul 15:23, 28 April 2007 (PDT))

  • The entire story is actually being played out in Hurley's head, as was left open-ended earlier this season.
  • Juliet may very well be lying about the death of pregnant women on the island, as there is no way to confirm this one way or the other.
  • Mikhail was never dead in the first place. He had some kind of sedative that he took (something like the spider venom that slowed the heart rate of Nikki and Paulo) that made him appear dead. The fence wasn't on at all. Mikhail walking through the fence sounded nothing like when the monster walked through it.
  • Mikhail might not have given back the phone he had taken from Naomi's bag. He may have replaced it with another phone that didn't work, taken from Naomi's co-workers because she says she "was not alone" (when Mikhail falsely translates it to "Thank you. Thank you for helping me."). Now hypothetically having Naomi's phone, he can try to fix it and communicate with her co-workers or hopefully with the outside world.
  • The Losties and everyone on the Island is dead but don't know it. Mikhail has died once this week as well.
  • Hurley is completely delusional. In one of these spells at the end of the show, when no one was looking, Hurley appears serious and dials a series of numbers on the satellite phone. He says into it, "Hello, Mom?" Just like Norman Bates from the movie Psycho or E.T. Not coincidentally Naomi wakes up.
  • Mikhail wished for the phone in the "magic box" so it brought Naomi (and the phone) to the island in the same way as the Losties were brought there.
  • It is unclear that he was "healed" by the island - there are other injuries/sickness of the Others (Colleen's gunshot, Ben's cancer, etc.) and the Losties (Boone, Shannon, Libby, AnnaLucia, etc) that could not be cured by the island - unless the Island only cures who it -wants- to cure (Locke's paralysis, Jin's sperm count, Rose' cancer).
  • Mikhail was killed by the fence and was a manifestation of the monster in this episode.
    • Reason for removal: Damon Lindelof states in the April 30th podcast that the fence was not turned up high enough to kill Mikhail and only injured him.
      • He didn't say that. He said that was one possible explanation. He said the actual explanation would be stated by Mikhail in the next few episodes. --Jackdavinci 11:50, 1 May 2007 (PDT)
  • Hurley is exactly the wrong person to have been told that the islanders are all dead. This idea is going to enhance his alienation from everyone on the island. Furthermore, if Hurley takes the next step and begins to think of the Island as Purgatory, then his natural ally will be Locke, the man of faith.
  • You're missing the more obvious reason why Hurley would try to phone his mother. It's the only number that he's likely to have made an international call to and so would be the one he'd best remember.

There are plenty of theories about pregnancies and the wreckage found, but points raised are more of a discussion than a list of theories.--Frosty yul 10:07, 27 April 2007 (PDT)

  • Kate was singled out as they think Sun is infertile due to her medical records, Rose is post-menopausal, and we have to assume that Claire is breastfeeding, which would make it extremely unlikely that she would ovulate for about 6 months postpartum.
    • There must be some other reason to single her out, as there are several other women among the Losties not included in the main cast. At the time of Kate's abduction the list included Nikki, surely in greater danger of getting pregnant due to her ongoing relationship with Paulo. Further, when the plan to take Jack, Sawyer, and Kate was initiated, Ana Lucia and Libby were both alive. Why would Ben single Kate out? I think we already know the answer, and it's got nothing to do with wanting Kate pregnant. Ben is a master manipulator, and needed Kate and Sawyer to get to Jack, full stop. --Evernight 10:52, 27 April 2007 (PDT)
  • There's also talk about Juliet being pregnant, since she was seen in bed with Goodwin. I *strongly* doubt she would allow herself to get pregnant while knowing full well it's a death sentence. It's also makes sense the Others had a normal sex life with some form of contraception. --Frosty yul 10:24, 27 April 2007 (PDT)

Is Kate pregnant?[]

What was the meaning of Juliet's message to Ben specifically concerning Kate?C.m. 12:40, 26 April 2007 (PDT)

That part is specifically interesting. It seems to point to the fact that Kate is or is expected to be pregnant. If the sperm count is five times stronger on the Island, and Kate has had sex with Sawyer twice, it makes pregnancy possible--Phil (talk) 14:22, 26 April 2007 (PDT)

Sex makes BABIES?!    Mr Vain    talk    contribs    email   15:03, 26 April 2007 (PDT)
Sawyer did get that girl he conned pregnant, should have been easy to get Kate pregnant. And Juliet/Ben/Jack did see them having sex... Keyura 15:28, 26 April 2007 (PDT)

Sperm Count - We Ignore the Fact Abnormally High Count Lowers Fertility[]

i am starting this subtopic because of a basic biological fact that we are all ignoring, possibly out of our own ignorance. the fact is this: an abnormally high sperm count actually results in lower chance of fertilization in humans. There are several factors that high sperm count causes to lower fertility. i realize it seems counterintuitive but it is a biological fact. Also, either the writers are ignorant of this too (making this a production error), or Juliet is ignorant of this (making her a very bad embryologist and a very bad fertility doctor). --Vic 10:46, 12 June 2007 (PDT)

It's the "biological fact" part that you're going to have trouble convincing people of. There doesn't seem to be consensus among doctors that polyzoospermia represents a fertility issue (see [1], e.g.) and there isn't a satisfactory theoretical explanation as to why a greater number of sperm should somehow be cumulatively less effective at fertilizing eggs in absence of other defects such as low motility. Robert K S 19:36, 12 June 2007 (PDT)
i checked out your link, and i also am still to find documentation on this elsewhere. when i was in high school, either biology or sex ed class, one lecture covered this. the excess sperm cells interfere with each other, restricting their mobility. in addition, when more than one sperm cell reaching the egg cell at the same time causes the egg to produce an enzyme which prevents sperm cells from penetrating.
i also recently learned the higher concentration of sperm cells in semen results in the cells having less energy, since they are supposed to use the semen as an energy source. i am not a medically trained person. i just know this stuff from high school. --Vic Coutin 21:06, 12 June 2007 (PDT)
I looked up more on sperm count. What I've learned makes me start to think that the situation is more one of Juliet being either mistaken, misinformed or insane, or the writers not doing their homework. Juliet states average sperm count is 60-80 million, but wikipedia says that normal sperm count is 20-150M/ml. Her figures seem off (although she is stating average as opposed to wikipedia stating the normal range). Even if they are verifiable, a sperm count five times higher by her figures would be 300-400M/ml.. Would that high a density of sperm cells adversely affect fertility? I am starting to think that not only is Juliet emotionally insane, but also she may be unreliable as a doctor too. She already failed to take a biopsy of Ben's tumor, and jumping to a conclusion that it is automatically cancerous (Jack did too). More research is needed on this topic to verify if Juliet is more nuts than she already seems. --Vic Coutin 17:44, 14 June 2007 (PDT)

Filming location[]

Anyone else noticed that the scene where Sun is meeting Jin's father was shot in the exact same location as the Galage's (submarine) scnens? you can actually see that she is walking on the same dock where Lock and Juliette were filmed on. You can even see the island's background. I don't know much about the site's procedures - do you think it fits in the trivia section? --Avudim 14:58, 26 April 2007 (PDT)

Sure, that's a good spot for it. Links to two screenshots showing that they're the same would be appropriate to include. Fat Burger 16:24, 26 April 2007 (PDT)

The location is the fish pond at Molii Gardens on the Kualoa Ranch. Dharmatel4 16:56, 26 April 2007 (PDT)
In case ther are any remaining doubts Virtual Tour 3x18 --Eyeful Tower 17:23, 26 April 2007 (PDT)

Parallel Universes - LostVerse v. RealVerse[]

Long time listener, first time caller.

Regarding Naomi's revelation that the plane was found, and everyone died: perhaps in the Lost universe, some lived, while in the 'Real' universe, they all died in the crash.

This might explain why the island is so difficult to find - it's in some sort of 'bubble' that allows it to co-exist in our universe, but the slipstream between the universes is very precise, and can only be accessed/traversed in a specific location... say, somewhere underwater, or on a certain compass heading (Michael/Walt). Attempting to traverse it without these precise settings (even accidentally) results in the destruction of that vehicle (Naomi's helicopter, flight 815). Even knowing the proper coordinates still results in a bumpy ride (Juliet being drugged/restrained for the sub trip, as it "can be pretty rough").

Consider this: Mikhail has now officially confirmed that the Other's are aware that healing is different on the island. Perhaps in the Lost Universe, it's simply a matter of fact that healing doesn't take as long. Conversely, perhaps the passage of time occurs at a different rate in the LostVerse, so that a week in the RealVerse is but a day in the LostVerse.

Also consider: Dr. Candle/Wickmund - perhaps the reason he has two names is because he is, in fact, two people.. one from the LostVerse, and his RealVerse counterpart.

--Gare ny 15:06, 26 April 2007 (PDT) Gare_NY

Cool theory. It's a bit of a combination of many popular theories that are going around. --Blueeagleislander 03:13, 27 April 2007 (PDT)

Juliet and Ben[]

  • What is Ben holding over Juliet's head to make her continue the infiltration even though she clearly doesn't want to? --Brian2 18:02, 26 April 2007 (PDT)
    • I am using Juliet's line, "I hate you Ben", to infer she does not like what she is being "forced" to do.--Brian2 18:02, 26 April 2007 (PDT)
  • Juliet has hated Ben for years now. We still don't know when she started hating him. We learned that she hated him in The Cost of Living (episode 3x05). The flashcards on tape say that Ben is a dangerous liar, and that some of the Others want 'change' and they want Ben dead. Do you think that Juliet's tape was a hoax, and Juliet began to hate Ben after the tape was shown? If so, how long do you think that interval was? My opinion is that she started hating him years ago, probably sometime after her initial six month contract had expired and (we still don't know why) she stayed on the island. --Victorcoutin 08:46, 27 April 2007 (PDT)

I assumed he promised her once again that she could go home and see her sister if she did the mission shrodes 18:18, 26 April 2007 (PDT)

If we are to believe that the sub was the only means of leaving, then why would Juliet agree to a promise that cannot be fullfilled?--Brian2 20:13, 26 April 2007 (PDT)

Michael and Walt left on a boat though. I think we can assume there is at least one more boat in the Others' possesion (Do they have Desmond's?). Also include with that the boat that Kate and Sawyer took to get off Alcatraz. shrodes 20:51, 26 April 2007 (PDT)


They do have Desmond's boat "The Elizabeth", if memory serves). This occurred when Sun shot Colleen in the stomach, then jumped into the ocean. As for the Alcatraz Escape boat.. it's only a rowboat - the usual method of transport for the Others up until now has been via a submarine, so it's unlikely that a rowboat would be a viable means of escape. --Gare ny 07:40, 27 April 2007 (PDT)

Two Affairs?[]

Hey, I am not sure if I am right or not, but I thought when Sun told Juliet, "I had a friend," was she talking about someone on-island, not Jae Lee? I thought maybe she had a little fling with Michael.

I thought the dialogue was a bit confusing, but the context of all the events between Sun and Juliet at The Staff made it clear that a pre-crash DOC meant Jae Lee was the father, and post crash made Jin the father.--Eyeful Tower 04:17, 29 April 2007 (PDT)
Ah, thank you. :) I just got confused, I guess.

Chinese[]

I'm pretty sure that the businessmen that Mr Paik was talking to when Sun when to speak with him were Chinese - can anyone confirm that? It could be relevant - as that Other spoke Chinese when translating Jack's tatoo, and the parachutist also spoke it.Huangdi 07:01, 27 April 2007 (GMT)

General Trivia on main article[]

The bottom 4 points in this section all refer to Catch-22, not D.O.C. Move them to the Catch-22 article? --Adam21 02:56, 27 April 2007 (PDT) --Spiral 12:45, 27 April 2007 (PDT)


Naomi vs the parachutist[]

Though not mentioned in the episode, her name (Naomi) is fact, based on the credits and press release. Is there any reason why the references that were changed today from "Naomi" to "the parachutist" shouldn't be changed back? Fat Burger 14:39, 27 April 2007 (PDT)

I'm changing them back, based on the April 30th podcast. Fat Burger 13:56, 1 May 2007 (PDT)

And someone changed it back again. I smell an edit war lol. We didn't have this many problems with Ms. Hawking whose name has still never been mentioned in the show itself (altho I guess there was some debate about "Patchy" vs "Mikhail". It's not like Naomi's name reveals some plot point as it might if she were Naomi Widmore or Naomi Shephard. It's not a secret, she's just been virtually unconscious for two episodes. sigh... --Jackdavinci 08:12, 2 May 2007 (PDT)

I personally think it should be the parachutist. I agree the name Naomi doesn't reveal anything but for those reading through and wondering who Naomi is, this may be confusing. DrGiggles 08:23, 2 May 2007 (PDT)

Her name will propably be used in tonight's episode. That will end the edit-war effectively --Hunter61 08:59, 2 May 2007 (PDT)
I dont think its worth an edit war because it will probably be settled today. The whole thing never made much sense to me. Naomi was in the cast list. If you follow the parachutist links, you get to an article that covers her by name. There is a problem in that people create character articles based on the cast list in some cases weeks before the character appears. If they are not named in the show, we get to the Naomi problem. It was even worse in this case because they used her name in the podcast and gave her a last name as well. Dharmatel4 08:58, 2 May 2007 (PDT)

I've changed it back to Naomi, since that is now the more clear method of identification. If anyone disagrees, let's talk it through. Fat Burger 14:03, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

Some of the questions...[]

I think some of the questions in the article are stupid and/or don't make sense. "If all passangers from the flight 815 are dead, where did Michael and Walt go?". That doesn't make sense. What difference does it make if they are dead or not? And the question itself just doesn't make sense. "How did Sun get the dossier on Jin's father, locating him so quickly?" Sun said herself her family is rich and powerful. It wouldn't be that hard. And even so, how this at all important? How would knowing how she got the dossier affect the story in any way at all? "Who was the parachutist referring to when she said 'I am not alone'?" I would assume she was reffering to herself. The fact that she says I am not alone, gives it away. --Electrology 12:57, 29 April 2007 (PDT)

I removed the question about Michael and Walt. Its invalid in my opinion because the first part of the question is a theory (if all passangers...are dead).
I think the second question should probably be removed, but I have not done so
I interprete the third question as Naomi suggesting that she was not alone on the Helicopter. The question asks if she was not alone in coming to the island, what person she was referring to. I think its a valid question. Dharmatel4 18:38, 29 April 2007 (PDT)
Yeah, duh :-) "Who was the parachutist referring to when she said 'I am not alone'?" - Not who is "I" but who makes her "not alone". --Jackdavinci 20:20, 29 April 2007 (PDT)

Questions[]

This can be put down to Suns family Power, It wouldn't be hard to get a PI to find out the answers to these questions, Or just to look up where Jin comes from and go ask a few questions. The writers arn't going to explain every little minor detail! If you see jack eat a piece of fruit do you need a flash back with him picking the fruit?

Man, that would be awesome, though. Just throw that in with the rest of the flashbacks. Jack slices a mango at the food prep table. Cue whooshing sound while closing on Jack vacantly staring ahead. Cut to Jack knocking a mango out of a tree, follow it to the ground where it hits - cue door shut noise and end the flashback, cutting directly to the knife slicing down against the table. END.

Simple logic would answer this, Seeing as Jin's dad hadn't even told jin who his mother was, its hardly likely he would tell anyone else! So how does she know who jins mother is unless she is his mother? I know this probably won't be enough for some, and others will probably want to see a flash back were Sun talks to some Hanso guys who tell her about jins dad and mom, But just think of the old saying "Sometimes the most Simple of explanations is the most likely one"

I agree it is highly obvious but I posted it because I thought it was valid as a question. Its probably better here though because it so obvious.--Lucky Day 18:01, 1 May 2007 (PDT)
How did Jin's mother know who Jin was? Is Jin's father the only Kwon in Korea? Did Jin & Sun's wedding announcement mention Jin's home village?

Sun crossing bridge[]

Somehow I highly doubt that Sun is crossing the "Hangang Bridge over the Han River". How on earth would you know??? I think someone should take it off immediately. -- Puppyfury -- talk -- contributions 12:23, 30 April 2007 (PDT)

I don't speak Korean, but by studying the alphabet and comparing it to a list of bridges on the Han River, it appears to say it's the Mapo Bridge. http://www.seattleartmuseum.org/Exhibit/Archive/grandfathershouse/lessons/images/alphabet.jpg & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_River_%28Korea%29 Fat Burger 13:07, 30 April 2007 (PDT)

Hurley's Phone Call[]

At the end of the episode Hurley dials a series of numbers on a Satellite Phone. He already knew thing was kaput and to further exacerbate the problem several viewers noticed the antenna was broken off of it too. Afterwards he puts the phone to his ear says, "Hi, mom"? Pretty creepy allusion here to Norman Bates here I think. I don't think it was a coincidence that Naomi woke up right after that knowing how things work on the Island. We also know Hurley has had delusions about Dave in the past. Off hand, I think its pretty easy to dismiss this as Pork Chop just fooling around. But then again, it may be easier just to dismiss it from being more than that. Jose Garcia is a great actor to pull that scene off the way he did.--Lucky Day 18:36, 1 May 2007 (PDT)

No-win.catch-22[]

I deleted the following entry under 'Episode references'.

  • There is also a mirroring situation in Sun's dilemma. She realizes she's living a no-win situation when she says "If I stay alive, I'll live in shame; if I carry on lying, then I'll die". A no-win situation is exactly what Desmond lived in the episode before this one, properly entitled "Catch-22". Sun's living her own "catch 22". ("Catch-22")

Sun's dilemma is not a catch-22 (she is not condemned to the same fate no matter what she does) and, strictly speaking, it is a lesser-of-two-evils rather than a no-win situation. Also, her actual words were "I lose either way. If I'm going to live, that means the baby's not Jin's". If this is a no-win/catch-22, then every other "Drop the gun or the puppy gets it" situation is a no-win/catch-22. Burt Gummer 15:19, 2 May 2007 (PDT)

Flashback: Sun?...[]

Isn't it Sun AND Jin? Diamon 19:15, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

No, the whole flashback is Sun's. Jin appears in it but it is not actually his flashback.-Mr.Leaf 19:23, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

Secrets?[]

"Jin later visits his father as seen in "...In Translation" and tells him about his wife, unaware that Mr. Kwon has already met her. (Secrets)" What determines this event happened after Sun visited with Mr Kwon? -- LOSTonthisdarnisland 21:13, 18 April 2008 (PDT)

Picture discussion[]

Shouldn't the picture be of Sun in the staff? It's the most important scene in the episode, reflects the episode's title, and its counterpoint eventually even jogs Sun's memory after death. --- Balk Of Fametalk 22:31, March 30, 2011 (UTC)

I agree, but if I had to choose a picture of the two, I'd prefer the latter - in the first one she just looks like something out of gremlins -- Julietfan2626 Talk Blogs 22:57, March 30, 2011 (UTC)

Agree. Picture two. --Station7 23:00, March 30, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - I have no problem with the current image, but I'm not opposed to a change. Between these two I would choose number 2, BUT it's Juliet's head which ruins it for me. It's not quite so noticable in the first one.--Baker1000 23:15, March 30, 2011 (UTC)

I think the current one is much nicer than either of these and Juiet's head does ruin it a bit for me too. Mhtm

ghnd....talk 16:35, April 3, 2011 (UTC)

3x18-So Sad 3x18-IsItABoyOrACorpse

There were a few seconds from that scene when Sun's look suited our episode-pic-style a lot better: --- Balk Of Fametalk 10:14, April 7, 2011 (UTC)

3x18-Sono1 3x18-Sono2
3x18-Sono3 3x18-Sono4
3x18-Sono5 3x18-Sono6

I definately think number 8 is best, but failing that I'd go with either the current one or 4 (2 from the new lot). She seems more thoughtful in that one. Not a fan of 6 & 7 as they have something blurry at the bottom of the screen. All the new ones beat 1 & 2. Mhtm

ghnd....talk 13:00, April 7, 2011 (UTC)

It's gotta be the last one. Lol Rachel P 21:55, April 9, 2011 (UTC)

Mr. Paik's business actions[]

What kind of business dealings was Mr. Paik doing?--Makarov29 09:57, April 15, 2011 (UTC)

Erasef07 (talk) 23:29, July 16, 2014 (UTC)


Jin's Job?[]

In the sixth episode of season one House of the Rising Sun Jin talked to Mr. Paik. Mr. Paik allowed him to marry his daughter if he worked as a personal assistant to Mr. Paik. But then in D.O.C. after Sun receives the blackmail money from her father, Mr. Paik says that Jin should now work for him to pay this debt off. Sun and Jin are already married at the time of that scene. If Mr. Paik reached an agreement with Jin before Jin and Sun married, why did he say to Sun Your husband will now work for me!

Erasef07 (talk) 23:29, July 16, 2014 (UTC)

I think that part of DOC inserts into the Jin flashback in "...In Translation" between him being offered a job in return for Sun's hand in marriage, and then him being called into the office and being promoted to Paik's "special assistant" which is when he starts beating people up. So in other words, Jin was working in the factory but because Sun borrowed money, Jin then had to start doing Paik's dirty work in order to pay off the debt. Basically Sun was the reason Jin became the brutal and controlling man she feared so much when they first crashed on the Island... :P--Baker1000 (talk) 00:04, July 17, 2014 (UTC)


Erasef07 (talk) 00:20, July 17, 2014 (UTC)


Right, I guess I skipped that so called promotion part when i was thinking about this possible flaw. Thanks for clearing it out for me Baker1000.

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